Degrees Of Heaven

[Bee Eff]

Bee Eff

Scripture compares the righteous and the unrighteous,

- the righteous shall inherit the kingdom (Matt 25:33,46).

- the unrighteous do not inherit the kingdom (1Cor 6:9).

So, in comparison to those not in the kingdom, all of the kingdom of heaven, each of the kingdoms therein, shine like the glory of the sun.

Matt.13 [43] Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear

[johnny]

Bee Eff

So, in comparison to those not in the kingdom, all of the kingdom of heaven, each of the kingdoms therein, shine like the glory of the sun.

After the Final Judgment there is only "the glory of the sun".

There are not different kingdoms and different glories like the Mormon Church teaches.

[Bee Eff]

Bee Eff

After the Final Judgment there is only "the glory of the sun".

There are not different kingdoms and different glories like the Mormon Church teaches.

Please provide support for this. And respond to the fact that not all are equal in heaven as all of Israel will be judged by the apostles, only the apostles will get this glory in heaven.

Also, some are told they will sit next to Christ. Are you saying that a seat next to Christ is equivalent to a seat next to Mother Teresa? Given the choice, I'd be more interested in sitting next to Christ myself.

[johnny]

Bee Eff

Please provide support for this.

Below are some verses that provide support,

- after the Final Judgment there is only the glory of God (Rev 21:11).

- in the end the Son deliveres up the kingdom to God, God may be all in all (1Cor 15:24-28)

And respond to the fact that not all are equal in heaven as all of Israel will be judged by the apostles, only the apostles will get this glory in heaven.

In the end the righteous are equal in glory, the have the glory of the sun.

Also, some are told they will sit next to Christ. Are you saying that a seat next to Christ is equivalent to a seat next to Mother Teresa? Given the choice, I'd be more interested in sitting next to Christ myself.

All who overcome Christ will grant to with him on his throne (Rev 3:21).

[Bee Eff]

Bee Eff

Below are some verses that provide support,

- after the Final Judgment there is only the glory of God (Rev 21:11).

- in the end the Son deliveres up the kingdom to God, God may be all in all (1Cor 15:24-28)

What of the "mansions" promised? You keep hanging up on the use of the term "kingdom". Here, for ease of your understanding I will alter the metaphor so that you can understand:

The Telestial Mansion

The Terrestrial Mansion

The Celestial Mansion

Now, without you jumping back to the term "kingdom", please deny this concept.

In the end the righteous are equal in glory, the have the glory of the sun.

Please provide evidence for this. The Matthew verse referenced heaven as a whole, it did not reference individuals.

All who overcome Christ will grant to with him on his throne (Rev 3:21).

Ah, so then we will all occupy the exact same position in relation to Christ. The Bible says that the apostles will sit next to him, was Christ simply placating them?

[johnny]

Bee Eff

What of the "mansions" promised? You keep hanging up on the use of the term "kingdom". Here, for ease of your understanding I will alter the metaphor so that you can understand:

The mansions are in the city,

• Heb.12 ([22] But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, [24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.)
  
• -
  
• Rev.21 (And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. [11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; . [27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life)
  

[Bee Eff]

Bee Eff

The mansions are in the city,

• Heb.12 ([22] But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, [24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.)
  
• -
  
• Rev.21 (And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. [11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; . [27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life)
  

Now, you still haven't shown that the Telestial, Terrestrial and Celestial mansions conflict with the Bible.

[johnny]

Bee Eff

Now, you still haven't shown that the Telestial, Terrestrial and Celestial mansions conflict with the Bible.

You say "mansion" ... the Mormon Church says "kingdoms" ... clearly you conflict with the teachings of the Mormon church.

[LDSMusic483]

Bee Eff

You say "mansion" ... the Mormon Church says "kingdoms" ... clearly you conflict with the teachings of the Mormon church.

And when Christians try to say only one heaven, we normally always point to the "many mansions" as proof for the kingdoms, so we see them as the same.

[johnny]

LDSMusic483

And when Christians try to say only one heaven, we normally always point to the "many mansions" as proof for the kingdoms, so we see them as the same.

Do you know of any bible scriptures that support a view that a mansion is a kingdom?

For me a mansion is very different than a kingdom ...

[jadams_4242]

LDSMusic483

Do you know of any bible scriptures that support a view that a mansion is a kingdom?

For me a mansion is very different than a kingdom ...

1 cor; 15-40-41... there is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon,and another glory of "THE STARS" for one glory differeth from another "star" in glory.

[johnny]

jadams_4040

1 cor; 15-40-41... there is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon,and another glory of "THE STARS" for one glory differeth from another "star" in glory.

This has been discussed earlier in this thread ...

[Lightbearer]

For the benefit of those who have never read the revelation on the degrees of glory I offer the following:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 76:Heading - 119) Preface: "A vision given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, February 16, 1832. HC 1:245â??252. Prefacing his record of this vision the Prophet wrote: "Upon my return from Amherst conference, I resumed the translation of the Scriptures. From sundry revelations which had been received, it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared selfâ??evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term `Heaven,' as intended for the Saints' eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one. Accordingly, while translating St. John's Gospel, myself and Elder Rigdon saw the following vision." It was after the Prophet had translated John 5:29 that this vision was given."

1 HEAR, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no Savior.

2 Great is his wisdom, marvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings none can find out.

3 His purposes fail not, neither are there any who can stay his hand.

4 From eternity to eternity he is the same, and his years never fail.

5 For thus saith the Lordâ??I, the Lord, am merciful and gracious unto those who fear me, and delight to honor those who serve me in righteousness and in truth unto the end.

6 Great shall be their reward and eternal shall be their glory.

7 And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all things pertaining to my kingdom.

8 Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to come will I show them, even the things of many generations.

9 And their wisdom shall be great, and their understanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding of the prudent shall come to naught.

10 For by my Spirit will I enlighten them, and by my power will I make known unto them the secrets of my willâ??yea, even those things which eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man.

11 We, Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, being in the Spirit on the sixteenth day of February, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and thirtyâ??twoâ??

12 By the power of the Spirit our eyes were opened and our understandings were enlightened, so as to see and understand the things of Godâ??

13 Even those things which were from the beginning before the world was, which were ordained of the Father, through his Only Begotten Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, even from the beginning;

14 Of whom we bear record; and the record which we bear is the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, who is the Son, whom we saw and with whom we conversed in the heavenly vision.

15 For while we were doing the work of translation, which the Lord had appointed unto us, we came to the twentyâ??ninth verse of the fifth chapter of John, which was given unto us as followsâ??

16 Speaking of the resurrection of the dead, concerning those who shall hear the voice of the Son of Man:

17 And shall come forth; they who have done good in the resurrection of the just; and they who have done evil, in the resurrection of the unjust.

18 Now this caused us to marvel, for it was given unto us of the Spirit.

19 And while we meditated upon these things, the Lord touched the eyes of our understandings and they were opened, and the glory of the Lord shone round about.

20 And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

21 And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever.

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Fatherâ??

24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,

26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over himâ??he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.

27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!

28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christâ??

29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.

30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:

31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my powerâ??

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;

33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;

34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to comeâ??

35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.

36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angelsâ??

37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.

39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto usâ??

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

44 Wherefore, he saves all except themâ??they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their tormentâ??

45 And the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows;

46 Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;

47 Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by vision unto many, but straightway shut it up again;

48 Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation.

49 And we heard the voice, saying: Write the vision, for lo, this is the end of the vision of the sufferings of the ungodly.

50 And again we bear recordâ??for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the justâ??

51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has givenâ??

52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;

53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all thingsâ??

56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.

58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of Godâ??

59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ's, and Christ is God's.

60 And they shall overcome all things.

61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.

62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.

63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.

64 These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.

65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.

66 These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.

67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.

68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.

69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.

70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.

83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.

84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.

85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.

86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.

88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.

89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;

90 And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it.

91 And thus we saw the glory of the terrestrial which excels in all things the glory of the telestial, even in glory, and in power, and in might, and in dominion.

92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all thingsâ??where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;

93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.

94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;

95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

96 And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one.

97 And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one.

98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;

99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.

100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of anotherâ??some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;

101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.

102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.

103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.

105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;

107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wineâ??press alone, even the wineâ??press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.

108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever.

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

113 This is the end of the vision which we saw, which we were commanded to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

114 But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion;

115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter;

116 Neither is man capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him;

117 To whom he grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves;

118 That through the power and manifestation of the Spirit, while in the flesh, they may be able to bear his presence in the world of glory.

119 And to God and the Lamb be glory, and honor, and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

I say read the revelation itself and ask yourself did it come from God?

[johnny]

Lightbearer

For the benefit of those who have never read the revelation on the degrees of glory I offer the following:

Do you offer that the different glories are before or after the Final Judgment, please explain and provide the verses that you base your answer?

[BCSpace]

Our understanding is similar to original Christianity's understanding.....

A Mormon's understanding is very different to original Christianity's understanding.....

I dunno. Seems pretty clear to me.

Irenaeus wrote

Irenaeus "For to whomsoever the Lord shall say, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,' these shall be damned for ever; and to whomsoever He shall say, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you for eternity,' these do receive the kingdom for ever, and make constant advance in it; since there is one and the same God the Father, and His Word, who has been always present with the human race, by means indeed of various dispensations, and has wrought out many things, and saved from the beginning those who are saved, (for these are they who love God, and follow the Word of God according to the class to which they belong,) and has judged those who are judged, that is, those who forget God, and are blasphemous, and transgressors of His word." Against Heresies,4,28,2(A.D. 180),in ANF,I:501

LDS doctrine.

Irenaeus also said...

And as the presbyters say, Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy. [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, "In My Father's house are many mansions."

Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:36:1-2, in ANF 1:567

There are not different glories after Final Judgment.

It's quite clear that they are.

After the Final Judgment there is only the glory of God (Rev 21:11). Before the Final Judgment there is the glory of the sun, the moon, and the stars (1Cor 15:41). Before the Final Judgment the just spirits in the heavenly city are made perfect (Heb 12:22-23). After Final Judgment the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father (Matt 13:40-43).

Members of the church do not inherit different kingdoms. The righteous shall inherit the kingdom (Matt 25:33,46). The unrighteous do not inherit the kingdom (1Cor 6:9). Salvation is not for all, in the lake of fire with Satan are the unbelievers, all liars, false prophets and those who commit the unpardonable sin (Mark 16:16; 2Thes 2:10-13; Rev 21:8 ). Life comes to those who have done good and damnation comes to those who have done evil (John 5:29).

The valiant are not the only ones with the Father. All who have their names in the book of life will dwell with God their Father in the holy city in the kingdom of God (Rev 21:1-11,27). Those who have their names in the book of life shall inherit all things and sit on a throne (Rev 21:7; Rev 3:7-12, 21).

You'll have to be more specific. None of these verses shows that there are no glories after the judgement. In fact vs 49-50 in 1 Cor 15 places the context squarely after the judgement when we inherit the kingdom of heaven

[johnny]

BCSpace

LDS doctrine.

Sounds very different to me ... LDS doctrine is different kingdoms ... Irenaeus doctrine is "the kingdom" ...

Irenaeus also said...

Which again is not LDS doctrine because this occurs before Final Judgment.

It's quite clear that they are.

Which Bible verses makes it quite clear?

You'll have to be more specific. None of these verses shows that there are no glories after the judgement.

There is one glory after the final judgment ... Rev 21:11 reveals the glory of God.

In fact vs 49-50 in 1 Cor 15 places the context squarely after the judgement when we inherit the kingdom of heaven

Different glories before Final Judgment.

• 1Cor.15 ([35] But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? [40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. [41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. )
  

One Glory at the resurrection of the dead which occurs at the Final Judgment.

• 1Cor.15 ( [42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: [43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.)
  

[jadams_4242]

BCSpace

Sounds very different to me ... LDS doctrine is different kingdoms ... Irenaeus doctrine is "the kingdom" ...

Which again is not LDS doctrine because this occurs before Final Judgment.

Which Bible verses makes it quite clear?

There is one glory after the final judgment ... Rev 21:11 reveals the glory of God.

Different glories before Final Judgment.

• 1Cor.15 ([35] But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? [40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. [41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. )
  

One Glory at the resurrection of the dead which occurs at the Final Judgment.

• 1Cor.15 ( [42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: [43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.)
  

{1Cor.15 ([35] But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

I beleive you are not getting the "gist" of this verse?. "How are the dead raised up". If they are dead then they do not have a glory yet; then "And with what body do they come". come to where?, to the ressurection of course; come, not bring. they are coming into a celestial or otherwise body, they are not bringing one with them.

[johnny]

jadams_4040

I beleive you are not getting the "gist" of this verse?. "How are the dead raised up". If they are dead then they do not have a glory yet; then "And with what body do they come". come to where?, to the ressurection of course; come, not bring. they are coming into a celestial or otherwise body, they are not bringing one with them.

Before the resurrection of the dead, the dead who are just are raised up as spirits to the heavenly city where they are made perfect, see below.

• Heb.12 ([22] But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, [24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.)
  

[BCSpace]

LDS doctrine.

Sounds very different to me ... LDS doctrine is different kingdoms ... Irenaeus doctrine is "the kingdom" ...

...of heaven, yes. And the kingdom of heaven is like unto.......?

Irenaeus also said...

Which again is not LDS doctrine because this occurs before Final Judgment.

"Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy."

Clearly afterwards when the rewards are assigned.

There is one glory after the final judgment ... Rev 21:11 reveals the glory of God.

No conflict here. The city comes out of heaven from God. Which God? The CK is the abode of the Father.....

Different glories before Final Judgment.

1Cor.15 ([35] But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? [40] There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. [41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. )

The resurrection and judgement are one and same.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot cinherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Cor 15

What inherits the kingdom of God? The various glories of resurrected dead. Just as the early fathers proclaimed.

[johnny]

BCSpace

...of heaven, yes. And the kingdom of heaven is like unto.......?

You tell me ...

Clearly afterwards when the rewards are assigned.

Rewards can be before Final Judgment.

No conflict here. The city comes out of heaven from God. Which God? The CK is the abode of the Father.....

God the Father.

The resurrection and judgement are one and same.

Agreed

What inherits the kingdom of God? The various glories of resurrected dead. Just as the early fathers proclaimed.

The righteous inherit the kingdom of God they shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father (Matt 13:40-43). There is only the glory of God after the Final Judgment (Rev 21:11).

[Bee Eff]

Bee Eff

You say "mansion" ... the Mormon Church says "kingdoms" ... clearly you conflict with the teachings of the Mormon church.

If you cannot adequately respond, simply say so.

But, to placate you, would any LDS who believes that the LDS kingdoms of glory are not referenced as mansions in John 14:2 please post up.

John 14: 2

2 In my Fatherâ??s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

and then switching metaphors:

2 In my the [Kingdom of God] are many [kingdoms of glory]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

[Phinehas]

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

We cannot save ourselves, nothing we do can aid us in our salvation. We can work to be worthy of the reward though.

I agree with you here.

It is Christ in us that is doing the work. Without Him we can do nothing. God saves us, Gives us His will to do works and provides us with the means to do them, and then rewards us for doing what he gave us to do.

Isn't God great?

The Lord is good. His mercy everlasting and His truth endures

[johnny]

Bee Eff

But, to placate you, would any LDS who believes that the LDS kingdoms of glory are not referenced as mansions in John 14:2 please post up.

Post and please provide Biblical references that a mansion is a kingdom ...

2 In my the [Kingdom of God] are many [kingdoms of glory]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Those are your words, they are not the words of God.

[Phinehas]

"after all we can do" does not conflict with "by grace we are saved through faith". "After all we can do" has no impact on our salvation, for only God can save us regardless of what we do. We do not boast, because no matter what we do, we cannot save ourselves. We can only be saved by God.

Mormonism teaches that we need to do all we can.... TRY OUR BEST and Jesus makes up the rest. This is the definition of , "after all we can do"

Don't tell me you've never heard this taught

[Phinehas]

Where does the Bible state this?

Faith without works is dead (James 2: 18, 20, 26). Thus, works must be present for faith. By grace are ye saved through faith (Eph. 2: 8 ). Thus, works must be present for salvation by grace.

Set it up in a logical manner:

1 Faith without works is dead (James 2: 18, 20, 26). ~W then ~F

2 Works must be present for faith. W then F

3 By grace are ye saved through faith (Eph. 2: 8 ). F then G

4 Thus, works must be present for salvation by grace. / W then G 2,3 Hypothetical Syllogism

This is oversimplified, but it is sufficient. Faith is only present given works.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

We do not begin by works

Works don't come first