Degrees Of Heaven

[Phinehas]

Thank you for moving this there "Can" does not equate to "must" or "does".

This is the VERY scripture mormonism uses to teach the different levels of heaven/glory

[Bee Eff]

Mormonism teaches that we need to do all we can.... TRY OUR BEST and Jesus makes up the rest. This is the definition of , "after all we can do"

Don't tell me you've never heard this taught

You are again ignoring faith. Faith is something we do, it is the body of our works. In the verse it states "by grace are ye saved through faith". "After all we can do" is the faith portion of the verse, not the "by grace saved" portion.

[Phinehas]

What of the "mansions" promised? You keep hanging up on the use of the term "kingdom". Here, for ease of your understanding I will alter the metaphor so that you can understand:

The Telestial Mansion

The Terrestrial Mansion

The Celestial Mansion

Now, without you jumping back to the term "kingdom", please deny this concept.

Please show me where this is stated in the mormon canon?

[Bee Eff]

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

We do not begin by works

Works don't come first

Faith without works is dead. God is a God of the living not the dead.

[Bee Eff]

Bee Eff

Post and please provide Biblical references that a mansion is a kingdom ...

Those are your words, they are not the words of God.

Please show me where this is stated in the mormon canon?

I wish the two of you would stop trying to deny this and actually present a rebuttal. Neither of you really believes any LDS through the Prophet would deny that such is an accurate statement concerning the LDS view of John 14:2. You are simply avoiding presenting a response.

[Phinehas]

And when Christians try to say only one heaven, we normally always point to the "many mansions" as proof for the kingdoms, so we see them as the same.

I keep trying to explain that "mansion" is a poor translation.

Dwelling place is a better one. In my Father's house are many dwelling places Like bedrooms

In Jesus day, one would add on to their fathers house a room for his new bride and himself.. When the father thought is was ready, he would tell the son to go get his bride.

I go to prepare a place for you.....

Sound familiar?

[Phinehas]

You are again ignoring faith. Faith is something we do, it is the body of our works. In the verse it states "by grace are ye saved through faith". "After all we can do" is the faith portion of the verse, not the "by grace saved" portion.

Faith is NOT something we do

This is an LDS teaching ...is it even in the canon?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the gift of God... We don't "do" faith... It is NOT of ourselves...

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[Phinehas]

Faith without works is dead. God is a God of the living not the dead.

You are starting to sound like an SDA ..."The fourth commandment, the fourth commandment......

Faith is first. Not works. Like a tree is first then the fruit

Faith is a gift of God. Without faith it is impossible to please Him

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Believing is following the commandments

[LDSMusic483]

Faith is NOT something we do This is an LDS teaching ...is it even in the canon? Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Faith is the gift of God... We don't "do" faith... It is NOT of ourselves... Not of works, lest any man should boast.

So why did Jesus tell us to believe? Is that not something that we would have to do? It is something that is given to us, but it is something we have to seek after.

You are starting to sound like an SDA ..."The fourth commandment, the fourth commandment...... Faith is first. Not works. Like a tree is first then the fruit Faith is a gift of God. Without faith it is impossible to please Him 1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. Believing is following the commandments

So you contradict yourself. You say we can't have faith, yet we are commanded to do it. So do something you can't do. That seems contradictory.

[Bee Eff]

Faith is NOT something we do

This is an LDS teaching ...is it even in the canon?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is the gift of God... We don't "do" faith... It is NOT of ourselves...

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is the gift of God. Faith is something we do.

[Phinehas]

I wish the two of you would stop trying to deny this and actually present a rebuttal. Neither of you really believes any LDS through the Prophet would deny that such is an accurate statement concerning the LDS view of John 14:2. You are simply avoiding presenting a response.

Here is another take on the mansions Jesus is preparing for us....

Commentary from Blueletterbible.com

Now, for many years I heard this scripture interpreted as beautiful mansions that God has up in heaven for us. So, when we arrive in heaven, Peter will meet us at the gate and take us through the city of heaven, down Glory Lane, and there, in this beautiful forest of blossoming trees, stands one of these beautiful colonial-type mansions, with the verandas and the porches and the stream running pass and all, and the Lord says, "There you are, check in." But, as time has passed, I've come to believe that what Jesus is referring to is not some beautiful home, English Tudor or Southern Colonial, that He has built up in heaven for me. But I believe that He is referring to the new body that I'm going to receive when I move out of this old tent. And Paul the apostle in II Corinthians, chapter 5, says, "We know that when this earthly tent, the body in which we presently live, is dissolved, that we have a building of God that is not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. So then, we who are in these bodies do often groan, earnestly desiring to move out of them, not to be unembodied spirits, but that we might be clothed upon with the body which is from heaven."

Now, God has a whole new body for us, far superior to the present body in which we live. The present body in which we live is compared to a tent; a temporary place to dwell, contrasted with the building of God, not made with hands, that is eternal in the heavens. The present body in which we live has marvelous features, but yet it also has features that aren't so marvelous. The present body in which we live has an aging process that takes its toll, so that we grow old. And as we grow old, the capacities of the body diminish. And we are not always able to do all of the things that we want to do or would like to do. And sometimes we foolishly get out and try to do some of those things that we used to do, and find that age has taken its toll upon the body. The body deteriorates; the body is subject to sickness, to disease, to weaknesses.

So, when the Lord talks about in heaven, He's going to prepare a place for us, I believe that He's talking about that new body that He's gone to prepare for us. "The building of God not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." And there in the kingdom of God, in that perfected state, we will dwell, live and dwell with Him forever.

[MormonMason]

LDS believe in degrees of heaven.

So I am wondering, Do they believe in degrees of righteousness?

It only stands to reason that they would

The more righteous one is the higher they can go in heaven's upper classes.

I believe:

If God has imputed the righteousness of Christ to us because we have believed, then it is folly for us to try to improve on that righteousness by doing works. (I am NOT saying we shouldn't do good works)

We can't improve on God's righteousness.

There is no way we can improve on the right standing that He has imputed to us. We are righteous.

That is God's accounting of our life because we believe and trust in the work of Jesus Christ.

We have one righteousness and so one destination. Not measured in degrees

This is evangelical claptrap. We are rewarded according to our works and the rewards vary. This is part and parcel of the teaching of the entire New Testament as a whole. That you so far depart from this teaching shows how little you really regard the Bible.

[Bee Eff]

You are starting to sound like an SDA ..."The fourth commandment, the fourth commandment......

Faith is first. Not works. Like a tree is first then the fruit

Faith is a gift of God. Without faith it is impossible to please Him

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Believing is following the commandments

James 2:19-20

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

The vain man has faith. Verse 19 states that the man doest well. His faith is something he does in this verse.

[Phinehas]

This is evangelical claptrap. We are rewarded according to our works and the rewards vary. This is part and parcel of the teaching of the entire New Testament as a whole. That you so far depart from this teaching shows how little you really regard the Bible.

You too Mason?

rewards are NOT righteousness

Only the righteous will receive rewards though.

[Bee Eff]

Here is another take on the mansions Jesus is preparing for us....

Commentary from Blueletterbible.com

So, "Father's house" in the verse references what? Given the commentary you provided, the metaphor was extended in the verse from house to mansion. Does God then create our "new body" inside his "body"? The commentary ignores the rest of the verse.

It also does not rebut an LDS interpretation, it only presents another interpretation.