Psalms 82,84,89

[Bernard Gui]

Just perusing my favorite Bible translation...The Revised English version, Oxford Study Edition.

These verses stood out:

82:1

God takes his stand in the court of heaven

to deliver judgement among the gods themselves.

84:7

So they pass on from outer wall to inner,

and the God of gods shows himself in Zion.

89:6-7

In the skies who is there like the Lord,

who like the Lord in the court of heaven,

a God dreaded in the council of the angels,

great and terrible above all who stand about him.

Who is in the court of heaven?

Among which gods does God deliver judgement?

How does God take a stand in the court of heaven?

Who are the gods of which God is God?

What is the council of the angels?

Where are the court of heaven and the council of the angels?

Who are those that stand about God? Are they actually standing?

Bernard

[Bee Eff]

You forget, somewhere it says "One God" so all other references must conform to that verse. *facetious*

[Ron Beron]

You are really digging up a real hornet's nest. This item has been discussed time and time again and one of our best, David Bokovoy has truely illuminated this subject... http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php...=divine+council

Other threads can be found here...

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php...Bdivine+council

[Ron Beron]

You forget, somewhere it says "One God" so all other references must conform to that verse. *facetious*

Why does all the others have to conform to the one?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

[BCSpace]

You forget, somewhere it says "One God" so all other references must conform to that verse. *facetious*

But somewhere else it says that despite the fact that other real and divine Gods exist, to us there is but one God....

[oMtonic]

But somewhere else it says that despite the fact that other real and divine Gods exist, to us there is but one God....

But that's what them Mormons teach. Don't let them, the cult, fool you.

[Dale]

But that's what them Mormons teach. Don't let them, the cult, fool you.

I can entertain the thought of the other divine Gods existing. They are not to us that one God. I would not see one idea contradicting the other. That one God can mean the Father. It can mean Father and Son like Paul used it to mean in 1 Cor. 8. i think verses, 5,6. Still the Father and Son seem to be aware of each other which makes them self aware kind of like two Gods.

[Sargon]

Just perusing my favorite Bible translation...The Revised English version, Oxford Study Edition.

These verses stood out:

82:1

God takes his stand in the court of heaven

to deliver judgement among the gods themselves.

84:7

So they pass on from outer wall to inner,

and the God of gods shows himself in Zion.

89:6-7

In the skies who is there like the Lord,

who like the Lord in the court of heaven,

a God dreaded in the council of the angels,

great and terrible above all who stand about him.

Who is in the court of heaven?

Among which gods does God deliver judgement?

How does God take a stand in the court of heaven?

Who are the gods of which God is God?

What is the council of the angels?

Where are the court of heaven and the council of the angels?

Who are those that stand about God? Are they actually standing?

Bernard

I like Psalms 86:8-10. From my blog:

Today's scholars (excluding apologetic Christians of course) are united in declaring that ancient Israel was not quite as monotheistic as we think (see Dever, Barker, Bokovoy, Cross, Day, Smith, Heiserâ?¦.)

For example, Psalm 86:8-10 reads:

8 Among the gods there is none like you, O Lord;

no deeds can compare with yours.

9 All the nations you have made

will come and worship before you, O Lord;

they will bring glory to your name.

10 For you are great and do marvelous deeds;

you alone are God.

Why is the psalmist declaring that God is alone in the same breath in which he is comparing God to other heavenly divinities? It sounds contradictory to our 20th century western ears. However, it is not. Most Evangelicals simply brush it aside by claiming that the â??godsâ?? mentioned in verse 8 are false idols, representations of things that do not exist. I disagree. What kind of praise would that be? Imagine a child saying to his Father, â??Dad, out of all of my other dads(who are non-existent) you are the best!â? It is nonsensical. It is no praise at all. The author of this psalm believed, either rightly or wrongly, that there were real beings worthy of the title â??godsâ?? to whom Yahweh could be compared, and whose ranks he was â??amongâ??.

After describing Yahweh as being â??among the godsâ? the author turns around and says â??you alone are Godâ??. Well this obviously is not contradicting his first statement. Yahweh is not the only deity in the heavens, instead Yahweh is de facto the only deity. It is proclaiming the supremacy, the authority, the power of Yahweh above all other beings of the same class. It is like Babylon decaring in Isa 47:8 & 10 that she is alone, that there is no other city.

This is but one example in which the scriptures suggest there is â??one Godâ??, but which clearly suggests that this one God is not the only divine being up there.

http://lehislibrary.wordpress.com/2007/12/...does-that-mean/

[Neighbor]

John 10:34-39;

Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'? (Ps 82:6) If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

John 17:20-23;

"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word, that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one. I in them, and You in Me; that they be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me."

There you have it:-), if you have Jesus.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Still the Father and Son seem to be aware of each other

No way!

[Ron Beron]

John 10:34-39;

Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'? (Ps 82:6) If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

John 17:20-23;

"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word, that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one. I in them, and You in Me; that they be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me."

There you have it:-), if you have Jesus.

The problem is not whether we have Jesus, but if we have Moses, Abraham, Amos, Samuel, Elijah, Jacob, Isaac, etc., etc.,. Jesus' teachings were not taught within a vaccuum. The very fact that we are monotheists is because we have been confronted with a choice at one time. The belief in one God does not negate the possibility of other being with godlike abilities. The NT and Paul's letters attest to the fact that we have the seeds of godhood within us.

[Ron Beron]

I like Psalms 86:8-10. From my blog:

There is an interesting side to this. The inclusion of a divine council within Psalms speaks volumes about the world in which it was written. In all aspects of ancient religious belief it is because the most ancient monotheistic gods failed to act within the human arena that other gods took their places. These gods, especially within the venue of Mesopotamia, did all things within a council. It would have been highly illogical for the ancient Israelites to have done otherwise.

There is also a further codicil to this in that the ancient peoples might have worked within a framework of democracy. In Thorkild Jacobsen's "Primitive Democracy in Ancient Mesopotamia", he presents a model where theological perceptions were based on human institutions.