Walter Martin's False Claims

[Pahoran]

Among those who know anything at all about The Church of Jesus Christ, the name of Walter Ralston Martin is almost never mentioned any more. His false claims, long ago refuted, are a mere historical footnote, no longer challenging to believing Latter-day Saints, while his erstwhile boosters would gladly forget about their formerly eager acceptance of his embarrassing gaffes.

At least, so it seems to us here.

In reality, Martin still has a large and loyal following elsewhere. He is regarded as "the father of the Christian countercult," and his claims are still repeated and defended. At least one poster on CARM regards him as a "great man" and calls anyone who challenges his claims a "liar," while the CARM moderators assiduously silence anyone trying to defend themselves against this accusation. (Perhaps Hoops22 thinks this is a manifestation of "Christian luuuurve." Perhaps by the standards of CARM it is.)

Therefore, because Martin's claims are still being used to deceive the unwary, it is appropriate to again remind our our forum members why we don't take him seriously.

1) Martin claimed to be an "ordained Baptist minister," and so he was--but only for two years. He was ordained in 1951, and his ordination was revoked in 1953.

2) Martin claimed to have an earned doctorate. His boosters on CARM assured me that he got it from California Western University in San Diego. He did not. He got it from an institution formerly known as California Western University, now California Coast University, in Santa Ana. CWU in San Diego is a legitimate and highly regarded institution; the former CWU in Santa Ana is, or at least in 1976 was, a mail order diploma mill.

3) Martin was calling himself "Dr Martin" for years before he paid the fee for his mail order doctorate.

4) Martin claimed to be a descendant of Brigham Young. When genealogical research showed that this was not the case, he backed down; but rather than admit he was wrong, he changed his claim to the more nebulous and less easily tested one of being a "relative" of Brigham Young. As though such a relationship somehow lent legitimacy to his false claims.

5) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled Safeway. That claim was never true at any time.

6) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled Skaggs Alpha Beta Stores. That claim was never true at any time.

7) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled the Southern Pacific Railroad. That claim was never true at any time; and indeed at the time he made it, it could not have been true because another railroad then owned the Southern Pacific.

Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled the Marriott hotel chain. That claim was never true at any time.

9) Martin claimed that an LDS ward is run by a bishop and two teachers. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Regards,

Pahoran

[captain-jack]

Among those who know anything at all about The Church of Jesus Christ, the name of Walter Ralston Martin is almost never mentioned any more. His false claims, long ago refuted, are a mere historical footnote, no longer challenging to believing Latter-day Saints, while his erstwhile boosters would gladly forget about their formerly eager acceptance of his embarrassing gaffes.

At least, so it seems to us here.

In reality, Martin still has a large and loyal following elsewhere. He is regarded as "the father of the Christian countercult," and his claims are still repeated and defended. At least one poster on CARM regards him as a "great man" and calls anyone who challenges his claims a "liar," while the CARM moderators assiduously silence anyone trying to defend themselves against this accusation. (Perhaps Hoops22 thinks this is a manifestation of "Christian luuuurve." Perhaps by the standards of CARM it is.)

Therefore, because Martin's claims are still being used to deceive the unwary, it is appropriate to again remind our our forum members why we don't take him seriously.

1) Martin claimed to be an "ordained Baptist minister," and so he was--but only for two years. He was ordained in 1951, and his ordination was revoked in 1953.

2) Martin claimed to have an earned doctorate. His boosters on CARM assured me that he got it from California Western University in San Diego. He did not. He got it from an institution formerly known as California Western University, now California Coast University, in Santa Ana. CWU in San Diego is a legitimate and highly regarded institution; the former CWU in Santa Ana is, or at least in 1976 was, a mail order diploma mill.

3) Martin was calling himself "Dr Martin" for years before he paid the fee for his mail order doctorate.

4) Martin claimed to be a descendant of Brigham Young. When genealogical research showed that this was not the case, he backed down; but rather than admit he was wrong, he changed his claim to the more nebulous and less easily tested one of being a "relative" of Brigham Young. As though such a relationship somehow lent legitimacy to his false claims.

5) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled Safeway. That claim was never true at any time.

6) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled Skaggs Alpha Beta Stores. That claim was never true at any time.

7) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled the Southern Pacific Railroad. That claim was never true at any time; and indeed at the time he made it, it could not have been true because another railroad then owned the Southern Pacific.

Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled the Marriott hotel chain. That claim was never true at any time.

9) Martin claimed that an LDS ward is run by a bishop and two teachers. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Regards,

Pahoran

While the claims make me smile because of the fruits they bear, I am surprised the giant outer space lizards weren't included on this list. They seemed on par with the rest of the claims.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

5) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled Safeway. That claim was never true at any time.

6) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled Skaggs Alpha Beta Stores. That claim was never true at any time.

7) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled the Southern Pacific Railroad. That claim was never true at any time; and indeed at the time he made it, it could not have been true because another railroad then owned the Southern Pacific.

Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled the Marriott hotel chain. That claim was never true at any time.

9) Martin claimed that an LDS ward is run by a bishop and two teachers. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Regards,

Pahoran

If I heard these claims and wasnt a member of the LDS church I would never join. This is to damning if it is true.

While the claims make me smile because of the fruits they bear, I am surprised the giant outer space lizards weren't included on this list. They seemed on par with the rest of the claims.

Im still searching for my 2nd wife and the illusive mormon horn that we all have.

[jwhitlock]

I need to go back and read some of the writings from Wally's World again.

Does anyone know if his stuff is online yet, or if his followers are still trying to squeeze a buck out of his books?

You're right - there are quite a few people around who still take him seriously. But then again, what can you expect from anyone whose primary religious motivation is "counter-cult"?

[Calm]

"He is regarded as 'the father of the Christian countercult'"

I am curious as to what other "cults" he took on.

[captain-jack]

If I heard these claims and wasnt a member of the LDS church I would never join. This is to damning if it is true.

Im still searching for my 2nd wife and the illusive mormon horn that we all have.

On the subject of those types of claims, I keep my hair neatly styled to hide my horns. I'm still waiting on my second wife in the mail. My first wife said we needed to save money so we opted for a 3'x3'x3' box.

[LifeOnaPlate]

If I heard these claims and wasnt a member of the LDS church I would never join. This is to damning if it is true.

haha

[Mark Beesley]

Seems Martin is not much different than Jim Roberton of Concerned Christians, though Robertson's packaging seems to be a bit slicker. But in the end, they can't seem to help but lie. Here is a sampling of the lies Robertson publishes at Concerned Christians, and at anti-Mormon rallies he attends:

I watched the video on this website, Understanding Your Mormon Neighbor. I took 2 full pages of notes of blatant lies that Jim Robertson tells. These are not simply doctrinal disagreements. These are out and out lies, starting with the lie that he was ever a branch president. Here is a sample of the lies:

1. Robertson used to claim he was a bishop. Later he backed off and claimed he was a branch president. He was neither. He was a counselor in a branch presidency.

2. Robertson claims the members are arbitrarily assigned which ward they will be in.

3. Robertson claims that the Standard Works are prioritized in importance, with the Doctrine and Covenants being first, the Pearl of Great Price second, the Book of Mormon third, and the Bible forth.

4. Robertson claims that the Church does not encourage members to read the Bible.

5. Robertson claims the Church did not consider itself to be Christian prior to 1972.

6. Robertson claims all temples have a diagram showing the spirit world, earth, the temple, and the three degrees of glory. (Itâ??s a diagram he used in his presentation, and said it was in all of the temples.)

7. Robertson claims there is no devil in Mormonism.

8. Robertson claims David O. McKay said that he was the mediator between God and man. (I've asked Robertson to show me the quote. I have yet to see it.)

9. Robertson claims that the Church encourages faithful spouses to divorce their non-believing spouse.

10. Robertson claims that an endowed woman cannot go to the temple without her husband.

11. Robertson claims Mormon wives will have a new baby every 9 months for eternity if they go to the Celestial Kingdom.

12. Robertson claims that the eternal progression of God means that He gets smarter and more knowledgeable.

13. Robertson claims that the Church teaches that we will rule over our own planets as Gods.

14. Robertson claims that Mormons do not believe that the blood of Christ washes away sins.

15. Robertson claims that Mormons do not believe in the virgin birth.

16. Robertson claims that when he announced to a friend who was a counselor in a bishopric that he was leaving the Church, that his friend told him that he would be back because Robertson likes sex. I canâ??t prove that Robertson lied about this, but Iâ??m willing to bet that he did.

17. Robertson claims that in Mormonism the husband makes the decision whether or not the wife gets to go to the Celestial Kingdom.

18. Robertson claims that the Church sponsors scouting programs in order to proselyte young boys.

19. Robertson claims that Joseph Smith described the first vision as being surrounded by darkness and two personages appearing.

20. Robertson claims that Mormons define a generation as 100 years.

21. Robertson claims that Joseph Smith â??completely rewrote the Bible.â?

22. Robertson is claiming that polygamy is being practiced in Mesa by Mormons just like it always was. Robertson claimed that the Church sanctions plural marriages today. A man just has to go to a different state and get married in a different temple.

23. Robertson claims that any Mormon man can marry an unwilling living female for eternity, by simply having his current wife go through the temple by proxy for the living female.

25. Robertson claims that the naval and knee marks of the garment used to be cut into the flesh.

Robertson makes a lot of claims about what goes on in the temple ceremony. I wonâ??t go into specifics, but suffice it to say that patrons in the temple are not instructed by Lucifer, they never say a prayer that says Hail O Magnificent Lucifer or any Hebrew derivation thereof, and they never put on an apron that represents the power and priesthood of Lucifer. Robertsonâ??s lies about the temple are broad and bold, probably because he knows we wonâ??t go into detail.

From the Concerned Christian video, Understanding Your Mormon Neighbor

[Anijen]

Walter Martin is a fraud who has so much pride that he actually thinks he is being persecuted by the church. If CARM wants to continue to backup its incredulous claims by supporting people like Walter R Martin then it just makes the apologetics job that much easier.

[cdowis]

5) Martin claimed that the Church owned or controlled Safeway. That claim was never true at any time.

FWIW, Safeway was owned and operated by a member of the church. I heard him when he spoke to the MBA students at BYU.

Also, Hank Hanegraaf is the self-ordained successor at CRI. I understand that Martin's widow was not pleased on how she was treated during this transition, but do not have any details. I'm sure there is an interesting story there.

[solomarineris]

Among those who know anything at all about The Church of Jesus Christ, the name of Walter Ralston Martin is almost never mentioned any more. His false claims, long ago refuted, are a mere historical footnote, no longer challenging to believing Latter-day Saints, while his erstwhile boosters would gladly forget about their formerly eager acceptance of his embarrassing gaffes.

At least, so it seems to us here.

Therefore, because Martin's claims are still being used to deceive the unwary, it is appropriate to again remind our our forum members why we don't take him seriously.

Regards,

Pahoran

Fine, don't take him seriously.

However, no matter how bogus his claims might have been, he created a huge following, sprouted throughout nation, zealously directed By Hank Hanegraaf, his "Bible Answer Man" daily program reaches

hundreds of radio stations from Alaska to Hawaii.

What is so funny about his accomplishments?

Granted they are more inept & helpless about their defense of Creation trying to demonize Evolution.

I don't see them, LDS or Christian faith in general sweeping the planet for converts.

If anything give or take in few decades most of those institutions will become endangered species. They will have hard time to support ministries. I cannot say the same thing about LDS Church, the membership might shrink considerably but the finances will stay sound for a long time to come.

[Mars]

7. Robertson claims there is no devil in Mormonism.

Wonder what that one did for the tenet that we believe in a different Jesus because he's the brother of the devil, who doesn't exist...?

[Aquilifer]

16. Robertson claims that when he announced to a friend who was a counselor in a bishopric that he was leaving the Church, that his friend told him that he would be back because Robertson likes sex. I canâ??t prove that Robertson lied about this, but Iâ??m willing to bet that he did.

AHAHA! You can't prove it, therefore it is a lie, therefore all your other points are lies!

[sorry, just trying to get into the proper mindset to understand the logic of making these types of bizarre claims ]

[Avatar4321]

7. Robertson claims there is no devil in Mormonism.

Robertson makes a lot of claims about what goes on in the temple ceremony. I wonâ??t go into specifics, but suffice it to say that patrons in the temple are not instructed by Lucifer, they never say a prayer that says Hail O Magnificent Lucifer or any Hebrew derivation thereof, and they never put on an apron that represents the power and priesthood of Lucifer. Robertsonâ??s lies about the temple are broad and bold, probably because he knows we wonâ??t go into detail.

From the Concerned Christian video, Understanding Your Mormon Neighbor

how do these two claims coincide? how can the devil do anything in the temple if we dont believe in one?

[Pahoran]

Solomarineris,

you wrote:

Fine, don't take him seriously.

However, no matter how bogus his claims might have been, he created a huge following, sprouted throughout nation, zealously directed By Hank Hanegraaf, his "Bible Answer Man" daily program reaches

hundreds of radio stations from Alaska to Hawaii.

What is so funny about his accomplishments?

Whoever said his "accomplishments" are funny? His claims are funny; his "accomplishments," as you are pleased to call them, are about as funny as a train crash.

All hate ideologies rely upon marginalising, demonising, misrepresenting and lying about their target group. Anti-Mormonism is unique among hate ideologies in that blatant deception is regarded as a positive duty and a Christian[TM] virtue, and that is largely thanks to the "Reverend" "Doctor" Walter Martin.

Granted they are more inept & helpless about their defense of Creation trying to demonize Evolution.

I don't see them, LDS or Christian faith in general sweeping the planet for converts.

If anything give or take in few decades most of those institutions will become endangered species. They will have hard time to support ministries. I cannot say the same thing about LDS Church, the membership might shrink considerably but the finances will stay sound for a long time to come.

Your continuing faith in the Church's impending collapse is touching, considering that there is no evidence whatsoever that such a collapse is coming.

But don't tell the others in your set. I've noticed that your crowd frown upon holding evidence-free beliefs.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Mars]

Christian[TM]

[Sargon]

Walter Martin is a fraud who has so much pride that he actually thinks he is being persecuted by the church. If CARM wants to continue to backup its incredulous claims by supporting people like Walter R Martin then it just makes the apologetics job that much easier.

Walter Martin is actually dead, and his successor can't escape the constant shadow of the scandal he allegedly has been covering up for years now. Hank Hannagraph (the new Bible Answer Man) is now in constant beg mode for money from his radio show listeners.

CARM does tend to be the gathering place for those who buy into misguided zealousness.

Sargon

[captain-jack]

Christian[TM]

What, no copyright?

[Sky]

Sad but true that Martin and others like him still have a loyal following after all these years. I visited the local Christian bookstore in my area about a month ago and counted at least five anti-Mormon books in the apologetics section. One of them was the â??updatedâ? version of Martinâ??s â??The Kingdom of the Cultsâ? with Ravi Zacharias as the editor.

Interestingly enough, Zacharias spoke at the Salt Lake Tabernacle in 2004 at the â??Evening of Friendshipâ? organized by Standing Together Ministries. While I commend these efforts, it doesnâ??t seem to have really caught on within the Evangelical community as a whole.

While books like these canâ??t ultimately stop the growth, vitality, and progression of the Church, they may do more damage than we would like to acknowledge. At least I think they help explain why there is still so much misunderstanding and animosity regarding Mormonism out there!

Disagreeing with our doctrine is one thing, but books like this cross the line deep into â??Anti-Mormonâ? territory. Anybody else notice how you donâ??t ever see books like this in Deseret Book targeting Evangelical Christians?

[LifeOnaPlate]

"Dr." Walter Martin's brand of Christianity

[Pahoran]

It is also worthy of note that Martin was a major player (possibly the financial backer) in the failed attempt to find Solomon Spaulding's handwriting on twelve pages of a Book of Mormon manuscript. The perpetrators of that particular hoax appeared on his show and told stories about how the Church had hired hit-men to try to kill them. Martin immediately appealed to his audience for money, ostensibly to fight the monolithic and ruthless Church.

IIRC, Martin later tried to distance himself from the handwriting project; I don't recall if that was before or after it collapsed.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Pahoran]

In another forum, one of Walter Martin's acolytes has tried to introduce this as evidence of Martin's status as an ordained minister.

The poor fellow seems to be confused. All this is evidence of is that the publishers of the "Annual" believed that Martin was an ordained minister.

And why would they believe that?

Well, Martin was ordained in 1951. Therefore, he would have had an ordination certificate. If he took it to the Southern Baptists and showed it to them, how likely is it that they would have gone to the American Baptists to find out if it was still current? Keeping in mind that neither of these groups is a "denomination" in the sense of having a central leadership, they'd need to actually track down those who served on Martin's ordination committee. Is it any wonder that the SB's simply never heard of Martin's 1953 defrocking? (For want of a better term.)

Thus, for evidentiary purposes, this is rather useless.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Jigglysaint]

I think we don't need to remember, but let this stuff die with it's defenders.

[Aquilifer]

I think we don't need to remember, but let this stuff die with it's defenders.

That's an excellent thought, but I think that Walter Martin continues to be the gold standard of countercult ministry. As long as that remains the case, it will long outlive dear 'Doctor' Martin.

[jadams_4242]

Among those who .

1) Martin claimed to be an "ordained Baptist minister," and so he was--but only for two years. He was ordained in 1951, and his ordination was revoked in 1953.

to his false claims.

You seem to have overelooked one falsity? you said he was "ordained" a baptist minister. By what authority was he "ordained"? He was not an ordained baptist minister, because no such Holy office excists.