Mormons As "blind Followers"

[Doctor Steuss]

LDS really don't believe the Bible. If they did they would believe there's only one God, works are meaningless to get into Heaven, John was the last real prophet, prophecies that don't come true make one a false prophet and much more that you don't believe.

rocmonkey doesn't believe the Bible. If he did, he would believe that circumcision is an eternal covenant. He would also realize that the real Messiah would fulfill Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, and Isaiah 11:9. He would also realize that any prophet who would add to the scriptures by trying to claim that the Messiah would fulfill these things in a â??Second Comingâ? (a concept completely foreign to Messianic prophecies) would surely be a false prophet and not of G-d.

Also, he would realize that both Ezekiel and Jonah were false prophets due to their admitted failed prophesies.

Glass houses and stonesâ?¦ or in your case glass houses and dung.

[Deborah]

Placing the Head of the church above the law, and above any controversy, may seem like a good and wise idea, but since it directly contradicts the Word of the Lord I remain convinced it is very unwise.

No, those in authority in the church are NOT just accountable to God. No one is above being brought to trial in the church.

But the head of the church is not accountable to you or me. We have no authority to hold such persons accountable. Only the proscribed councils of the church, acting in the name of God and therefore with the authority of God have the power to make such judgements, and even so their decisions come by revelation and therefore are of God.

[rocmonkey]

You have a few CFR's waiting.

I think I've answered them all. If not show me one. I'm looking as fast as I can and I can't see one I haven't responded to.

Btw, 'no its not', is not an answer, folks.

[bluebell]

I think I've answered them all. If not show me one. I'm looking as fast as I can and I can't see one I haven't responded to.

Btw, 'no its not', is not an answer, folks.

and neither is 'because that's what i believe you believe' but that hasn't stopped you from using it.

[LifeOnaPlate]

I think I've answered them all. If not show me one. I'm looking as fast as I can and I can't see one I haven't responded to.

Btw, 'no its not', is not an answer, folks.

You come in here and poo accusations all over the floor and want me to pick them all up? You go find your own unanswered CFR's.

Monkey sez:

They didn't know science back then. Come on, wise up.

Whoa, then there are errors in the perfect Bible?

Hrmmm...Wonder why that's ok for the Bible, but not Joseph Smith. That's odd.

[Avatar4321]

I think I've answered them all. If not show me one. I'm looking as fast as I can and I can't see one I haven't responded to.

Btw, 'no its not', is not an answer, folks.

And simply repeating yourself again and again doesnt supply sources.

[Pahoran]

They didn't know science back then.

Which is quite all right, but that means your idolatrous assertion that there is "nothing" in the Bible that is scientifically wrong is simply false.

Come on, wise up. I had a Mormon tell me God is a man and he used words from the Bible the opposite of what you just did.

I regret to inform that I find no reason to believe your assertion.

LDS twist it to fit their needs at the momenyt. I showed him the rivers have hands. As does the wind and others. Read it right, in context, or admit it when you're not- like now.

Physician, heal thyself! You of all people are the last person who should be lecturing anyone else about reading "in context."

LDS really don't believe the Bible.

Hey, hatemonkey: stop lying to us about our own beliefs. Tell it to your ignorant Protestant cronies--they might believe you. We know better.

If they did they would believe there's only one God, works are meaningless to get into Heaven, John was the last real prophet, prophecies that don't come true make one a false prophet and much more that you don't believe.

That's false. But of course you fling out those accusations machine-gun style because, as a career false accuser, you know that it is always less time-consuming to accuse than it is to defend.

LDS are not Christians by any stretch of the word.

Actually it's anti-Mormons who are not Christians. By any stretch of the word.

Sorry! I wish you all were but you believe that because you're blindly following what they tell you you are.

That's false, of course.

We know that we are Christians because we know what we believe. And cheap, dishonest rabble-rousers are not going to convince us that we believe otherwise.

You are blindly following some uninspired hate-monger with a private definition of "Christian" to which no honest, informed person subscribes.

There wasn't a restoration or Jesus is a liar. Which is it, Jesus (God himself in the flesh) is a liar or JS (a man) made it all up (is a liar)? Only one is true.

Another example of the fallacy of the false dilemma. The truth is that Jesus himself prophesied of the Restoration. As did Peter and Paul.

Jesus did not lie when he prophesied of the Restoration. Joseph did not lie when he proclaimed the restoration.

But you keep insisting that someone is lying. Okay--I pick you.

I'm trying to put up evidence but there are too many of you and just me, apparently. Look through here and see I'm working hard on the evidence part. I showed where LDS teach human sacrifice is in harmony with God's law. I showed where JS predicted Jesus return, twice and failed both times and more. Give me some time. I'm giving the evidence as fast as I can.

Oh, come on. How time-consuming can a quick cut-and-paste be?

If you cared to know the truth about your false accusations, you would know that these stock standard accusations have been answered.

And if you really read the Bible and believed it, you would know who it is that is the Accuser of the Saints: the master whom you so faithfully serve.

Regards,

Pahoran

[rocmonkey]

I only am attack your weakness. Perhaps i should not do this. I dont blindly follow anybody. And guilt by association will never hold up in a court of law. So just how is blindly following who here. I have attacked nothing but your inabuility to be honest with yourself. I am definding against your lies about MMM and pretty much everything here. You have yet to post one thing that can be attributed to a prophet or apsotle saying. You have taken things out of context more time than i have fingers and have read in to the text things that are not there. CFR CFR CFR. you havent provided anything worth anything here.

Wait a minute. I have answered every cfr I could find. I have given a number of verbatim quotes only to have LDS say they don't count or mean what they say. Yeah, they mean exactly what they say- Mormons are told to do something and they did it.

I showed JS false prophecy about Jesus coming again

LDS don't want to see the truth- which is kind of what this thread is about. following blindly, not willing to see the truth of what is really taught by these folks now or in the past.

I can assure you MMM didn't happen by itself and its obvious it wasn't an accident. That states loudly that somebody caused it. The question becomes who. Since we know Mormons did it it stands to reason that the church had something to do with it. Its naive to think otherwise.

Just because you don't like what I said doesn't mean I didn't give evidence that's true. I did. What have I not answered that's been asked?

To be fair, Roc shouldn't have to go back through pages and pages to find an unanswered CFR. If there is an unanswered CFR that is sticking in your craw, then post it again. RocM, please see my warning near the bottom of the last page. Others, please use the report button if you (re)post a new CFR and she/he doesn't answer it. ~mods

[rocmonkey]

Uh...CFR?

Did any LDS Prophet or apostle ever speak truth? Just curious.

Bring out the shotgun!

Joseph Fielding Smith in his books Doctrines of Salvation (a 3-set). In 1:133-136. On page 136 he states that blood atonement or human sacrifice is in harmony with God's law. I've given this with one quote already.

[rocmonkey]

There is nothing to defend. You havent given us any references and your statements are completely contrary to any appearance of the truth.

I feel very sad for you. Because if you bothered to do any actually research you would know the reasons you state are untrue. in fact, its not very difficult to show. Numerous people have already demonstrated it to you in this page of the thread alone.

As I have said, once makes it so. It only takes one murder to make one a murderer. It only takes one leader saying it publicly (and no one is recorded as speaking against him/them at that time) for it to be true. 'Do as you're told' is the S.O.P. for Mormonism.

If a million folks said it didn't happen and I can show it did, even once, then they are mistaken. Look up the quote. Its there.

[Deborah]

I can assure you MMM didn't happen by itself and its obvious it wasn't an accident. That states loudly that somebody caused it. The question becomes who. Since we know Mormons did it it stands to reason that the church had something to do with it. Its naive to think otherwise.

You are correct and a trial was held and the person who was deemed responsible was found guilty. It does not stand to reason that "the church" had something to do with it and that accusation is plain nonsense and perpetrated by those who hate the church. In fact the evidence shows that one man did indeed question the actions of Lee and appealed to Pres. BY, who it is apparent did not know what was about to transpire and immediately sent instructions for the group to travel in peace. Who is the great "We" who is so omniscient that they can call up evidence that is non-existent.

Joseph Fielding Smith in his books Doctrines of Salvation (a 3-set). In 1:133-136. On page 136 he states that blood atonement or human sacrifice is in harmony with God's law. I've given this with one quote already.

Non sequitur. So he said that. What has that got to do with anything you are applying it to?

[LifeOnaPlate]

I have to ask, rocmonkey: Why are you here?

I don't believe it is to get a better understanding of the LDS Church, or even to learn, or change a viewpoint. This is evidenced by the tone of your posts, and the avoidance of any issue contrary to what you assert.

[Zakuska]

Joseph Fielding Smith in his books Doctrines of Salvation (a 3-set). In 1:133-136. On page 136 he states that blood atonement or human sacrifice is in harmony with God's law. I've given this with one quote already.

Sounds biblical to me...

Heb 10

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Mosesâ?? law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Christs Blood doesn't touch the sins of a Believer commited after Baptism.

[rocmonkey]

Why not?

We believe the Apostle Peter and he's a habitual Liar (3 times over)!

We believe Matthew and he's an IRS agent.

We believe the other Apostles who where Lawyers and Doctors.

We believe the Prophet Moses, who was convicted of Murder, as well as hiding evidence.

So tell us do you Believe these scoundrels or do you hold a Double Standard like the rest of the "Christian" world?

PS. You are baring false witness, Why should we believe you?

These men are human. They made mistakes- as we all do. But they never said outrageous things like the LDS leaders did.

I don't know how you can miss the vast differences here. We all will sin every day of our life- that's our nature. But, to lie outright, give false prophecies, try to change God's nature and deceive folks willingly is way beyond the pale of what those men in the Bible did.

David committed murder after adultery but God forgave him. To Mormons that's impossible- see Dos 1:135 (JS said)

[144]

Men stuff things up. Not always intentionally.

I have been wondering about things. Especially how its so evident that even men of God make mistakes (of course they do). God knows all so he allows for it.

My husband and I always wonder if we should bother go to Church and what for. He says at the end of the day we go for the kids though I also go for myself. I need all the help I can get. My mother no longer goes to Church. She sees no need for it.

I have a problem with going to Church because I find it very difficult blindly following what our leaders tell us. I have a problem with being obedient at the best of times. I don't care if a man has been called of God. I am a prophet unto myself and I would listen to God over any man. Sure God may tell me to go listen to the prophet but I have my own mind.

I don't like feeling judged. I know if I don't do as I asked at Church then I will be seen as not a 'true Saint'

I believe In God and that He gave us a Saviour and His Church is true.

I wonder if this is a test. I am just ready to pass it. Obedience is a great thing. I have heard it been said many times.

So I wondered why we have the Church. It is true. And we need something. If everyone went around believing what they liked saying they believed in God so all is well, then we would be in trouble. Oh no that already happens....

Trust not in man.

[rocmonkey]

Deuteronomy

14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.

14:12 But these [birds] are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,

14:14 And every raven after his kind,

14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,

14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,

14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Glad to know that a bat is actually a bird and not a mammal.

Leviticus

11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;

How many four-legged fowls are you familiar with?

Numbers

23:22 God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.

I look forward to my next issue of National Geographic where I can read all about the unicorn...

There are 7 different words for bird in Hebrew. Since you didn't look that up you probably don't know much about Mormonism's history either. The point here, again, is following blindly. Do your own research and you won't make these ridiculous statements. This just shows how much you follow their lead.

[Zakuska]

These men are human. They made mistakes- as we all do. But they never said outrageous things like the LDS leaders did.

AMEN! And then you go and set up a double standard... Mormon Leaders are to be held to a Higher Standard than even Christ himself. Gotcha!

Christ said we have to Canablize him to have eternal life, How much more outrageous can you get?!

I don't know how you can miss the vast differences here. We all will sin every day of our life- that's our nature. But, to lie outright, give false prophecies, try to change God's nature and deceive folks willingly is way beyond the pale of what those men in the Bible did.

Ah yes... setting up a Double Standard again. Did you mis the 2 Chronicles 18 verse where God has two prophets Lie to a King to get him killed?

2 Chr. 18

18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.

19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.

20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?

21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

23 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?

24 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see on that day when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself.

25 Then the king of Israel said, Take ye Micaiah, and carry him back to Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king’s son;

26 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I return in peace.

27 And Micaiah said, If thou certainly return in peace, then hath not the LORD spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, all ye people.

28 So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah went up to Ramoth-gilead.

David committed murder after adultery but God forgave him. To Mormons that's impossible- see Dos 1:135 (JS said)

Yet David still went to hell for his sin.

There are 7 different words for bird in Hebrew. Since you don't know much about Mormonism's history either. The point here, again, is following blindly. Do your own research and you won't make these ridiculous statements. This just shows how much you follow their lead.

Yet in the context of the verse a BAT is listed among the Fowls. No need for seven different words. He's listing Fowls.

The particular word used here:

[06833] tsippowr

1) bird, fowl

a ) bird (singular)

B ) birds (coll)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.p...;version=KJV#11

a BAT is not a tsippowr yet is listed as one.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Men stuff things up. Not always intentionally.

I have been wondering about things. Especially how its so evident that even men of God make mistakes (of course they do). God knows all so he allows for it.

My husband and I always wonder if we should bother go to Church and what for. He says at the end of the day we go for the kids though I also go for myself. I need all the help I can get. My mother no longer goes to Church. She sees no need for it.

I have a problem with going to Church because I find it very difficult blindly following what our leaders tell us. I have a problem with being obedient at the best of times. I don't care if a man has been called of God. I am a prophet unto myself and I would listen to God over any man. Sure God may tell me to go listen to the prophet but I have my own mind.

I don't like feeling judged. I know if I don't do as I asked at Church then I will be seen as not a 'true Saint'

I believe In God and that He gave us a Saviour and His Church is true.

I wonder if this is a test. I am just ready to pass it. Obedience is a great thing. I have heard it been said many times.

So I wondered why we have the Church. It is true. And we need something. If everyone went around believing what they liked saying they believed in God so all is well, then we would be in trouble. Oh no that already happens....

Trust not in man.

But it seems you do trust in man, to the extent that you seem to put undue attention upon what others may think of you. Remove your beam, ignore your neighbors, and you'll be alright.

You find it difficult to blindly follow leaders? That's a good thing.

[Pahoran]

Wait a minute. I have answered every cfr I could find. I have given a number of verbatim quotes only to have LDS say they don't count or mean what they say. Yeah, they mean exactly what they say- Mormons are told to do something and they did it.

Yes, and? So did Moses. So did Jeremiah. So did Paul.

When Jesus--someone that we, being Christians, follow, while you clearly do not--said, "not my will but thine," was that "blind obedience?"

I showed JS false prophecy about Jesus coming again

No. You did not.

You showed Joseph accurately prophesying that Jesus would not come before 1890. You also showed that Joseph was very impressed by this, and from it developed an opinion that the Saviour would return soon after that time. But notice, please, that the only part of that that he was prepared to publish to the world as prophecy has turned out to be completely true.

Oh, and why was Joseph so impressed by that? Because it came by revelation from God, of course.

LDS don't want to see the truth- which is kind of what this thread is about. following blindly, not willing to see the truth of what is really taught by these folks now or in the past.

That is a vicious, bigoted, insulting and offensive lie.

The reality, contrary to your hate-based prejudice, is that the only reason that any of us are Latter-day Saints is because we passionately do want to see the truth.

I can assure you

As if your assurances carried any weight; as if you have demonstrated any expertise in LDS history; as if you've shown the slightest interest in the truth about any subject.

MMM didn't happen by itself and its obvious it wasn't an accident.

Of course it wasn't an accident. The perpetrators did it on purpose. No-one has claimed otherwise.

That states loudly that somebody caused it.

Of course somebody caused it: namely, the guys with the guns.

The question becomes who.

For the answer, see above.

Since we know Mormons did it it stands to reason that the church had something to do with it. Its naive to think otherwise.

IOW, your assertion is merely an assumption that is evidence of the depth of your hatred and bigotry.

Got it.

Just because you don't like what I said doesn't mean I didn't give evidence that's true. I did. What have I not answered that's been asked?

I'd like to know the URL for the anti-Mormon hate site from which you've been cutting and pasting.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Maidservant]

than women who have intercourse with men.

With MEN??? Who?

Ha you think you know the truth. THats whats so funny, I switched your glass when your back was turned.

I have spent the last 15 years (?) building up an immunity to Iocane powder.

Again, you are unable to set aside the notion that homosexuality is a sin.

Would you be open to the notion that there is a sacred potential and pinnacle to sexuality that is fulfilled, or the possibility to be fulfilled, in the union of the male (husband/ father) and the female (wife/ mother) -- a potential that cannot be reached by the employment of sexuality between same gender?

I would say more, but let's do a new thread.

Jesus is a liar.

Jesus is still talking. He's still alive. He is resurrected. He's still busy. He still loves you and me. He's not done talking. All the things he ever said past or present or future are not contained in the pages of any book be it Bible or Book of Mormon. He is the Eternal God, and so his words are eternal. I am very, very certain that Jesus Christ has opened his mouth to speak, since the year 33 A.D. Whether or not any one on this planet heard it, we have to find out. Joseph Smith said that he heard it. I believe Joseph Smith's report.

[Zoidberg]

Would you be open to the notion that there is a sacred potential and pinnacle to sexuality that is fulfilled, or the possibility to be fulfilled, in the union of the male (husband/ father) and the female (wife/ mother) -- a potential that cannot be reached by the employment of sexuality between same gender?

I would say more, but let's do a new thread.

Or better yet, let's post some more comments in my old thread about the eternal nature of gender and first determine how to define gender (shameless plug).

[jwhitlock]

Actually, if someone can show any place, even one, where the LDS leaders said to do as you're told, especially if they say 'whether its right or wrong' doesn't matter, then the members were following blindly. It only takes once to make it so. I gave three and I'm positive I can find the exact wording some here think needs to be given.

I believe modern Mormons still follow blindly and I gave a couple of examples of that.

I've been watching rocmonkey continually set up straw men on this thread on then kick them over, exultantly exclaiming "I've proven Mormonism to be false!"

Here we have:

If an LDS leader said to do as you're told, even once, then:

Members were following blindly.

And members continue to follow blindly.

There, I've proven my case that Mormons are blind.

*************************

The logical disconnect in this whole sequence is so egregious that it's hard to know how to respond, except to shake your head about the motivations of such a person. Especially when that person then trumpets that "they know the truth!" and that their "logic" trumps anything the Mormon apologists can come up with.

And there's a whole thread filled with this drivel.

It is instructive that there are people out there whose perspective on reality is so warped by their dismissive hatred of the Church and everything it stands for that they blindly justify their fabrication of facts in the finest tradition of creatio ex nihilo.

I suppose that the new mantra for many critics of the Church is "Why attack the Church with facts, when the assumptions and fabrications are so much more damning?" The polarization of the righteous and the wicked, and the clear evidence of the methods of the wicked is indeed being demonstrated once again.

[jwhitlock]

I have to ask, rocmonkey: Why are you here?

I don't believe it is to get a better understanding of the LDS Church, or even to learn, or change a viewpoint. This is evidenced by the tone of your posts, and the avoidance of any issue contrary to what you assert.

I, for one, have been thoroughly instructed by rocmonkey's posts - in the same manner conference goers are instructed by the anti-Mormon rabble outside of the conference center every six months.

That's one of the reasons that I read the stuff on this board - to remind me of the very real divide between the saints and the world that exists in the last days.

[Zakuska]

Lets recap-

According to rocmonkey... LDS members are blind followers of their leaders. They believe as fact anything their leaders say without question.

He also made some other bald faced assertions:

1) Unlike the Bom, the Bible cannot be shown to have ever changed, by anyone. In spite of the fact that the LDS leaders have always claimed it has been and LDS members blindly accept it as fact.

To which we responded (With non-LDS sources mind you)

Johnianne Comma

"One example where clear problems arise is the famous Johannine Comma, where the King James version has a passage (1 John 5:7, with two verses from relatively late manuscripts that are not attested in earlier manuscripts - suggesting a late addition by somebody to buttress the doctrine of the trinity. Most modern translations of the Bible no longer have those two verses because the earliest manuscripts all lack them. Of course, it's hard to be sure on such issues because there are no original manuscripts and many variations in the existing manuscripts. Most is clear, of course, but there are thousands of areas where change and uncertainty exists."

The Comma Johanneum is a comma, or short clause, present in most translations of the First Epistle of John published from 1522 until the latter part of the nineteenth century, owing to the widespread use of the third edition of the Textus Receptus (TR) as the sole source for translation. In readings containing the clause, such as this one from the King James Bible, 1 John 5:7â??8 reads as follows, the Comma itself here rendered with emphasis:

5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

The resulting passage is an explicit reference to the Trinity (the doctrine that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God), and for this reason some Christians are resistant to the elimination of the Comma from modern Biblical translations. Nonetheless, nearly all recent translations have removed this clause, as it does not appear in older copies of the Epistle and it is not present in the passage as quoted by any of the early Church Fathers, who would have had plenty of reason to quote it in their Trinitarian debates (for example, with the Arians), had it existed then. Most Churches now agree that the theology contained in the Comma is true, but that the Comma is not an original part of the Epistle of John.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

These words where added to the bible in 1522, and that is just the TIP of the ice berg!

Then I recommended these:

The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture by Bart Ehrman (Non-LDS)

'Misquoting Jesus' by Bart Ehrman (Non-LDS)

2) He also blindly asserted that "God does not give false prophecies"

So, which of these two false prophecies is the real date supposed to be? Actually, neither of them but JS was wrong twice on this one issue. God never gives false prophecies and these are most definitely false- unless any of you can show proof that Jesus came back on one of them.

And Jumpin Jehoshaphat!!!! God lied to his prophets and caused the untimely demise of the king?!

2 Chr. 18

18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.

19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.

20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?

21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

23 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?

24 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see on that day when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself.

25 Then the king of Israel said, Take ye Micaiah, and carry him back to Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the kingâ??s son;

26 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I return in peace.

27 And Micaiah said, If thou certainly return in peace, then hath not the LORD spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, all ye people.

28 So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah went up to Ramoth-gilead.

Now I ask you... is there projection going on here? Is it not in very word and deed that rocmonkey is "blindly" following what his anti-Mormon propaganda is feeding him?

[e=mc2]

rocmonkey:

LDS don't want to see the truth- which is kind of what this thread is about. following blindly,

Well we certainly are NOT following blindly your false assertions about BY ordering the MMM now are we..........