Christ Was A Man And Became A God?

[BCSpace]

... are you saying that Psalm 148 DOES NOT say the LORD commanded and all the angels were created.

This verse does nothing for the trinity hypothesis. The creative process is not explained. By your logic, Adam was commanded to create and his children appeared out of thin air. That's the effect of your logic.

No, truth does not depend one's point of view. In John 1:1 God says the Word was "with" God and was also "God." That is two Gods.

It is not two Gods John 1 says the Word was in the bosom of the Father.

Which according to the Lexicon, means they were of the same mind.

The words "male and female" is what God created, it does not mean a Male God and a Female God.

Yes it does, as I have already explained.

Again your explanation does not fit the verse ... verse 27 says "male and female created he them" ... it other words male and female he created them.

Genesis 5:1-3 is more clear on the female component of God. Notice that it is a married male and female created in the image of God. Therefore the context is not that God is both male and female, but is a married couple.

[johnny]

BCSpace,

This verse does nothing for the trinity hypothesis. The creative process is not explained. By your logic, Adam was commanded to create and his children appeared out of thin air. That's the effect of your logic.

The creative process is explained in Psalm 148, God commanded and angels were created. This creative process is supported by many other scriptures such as Psalm 33:6, Col 1:16,17; Job 33:4; and Neh. 9:6. Adam was a man, a man needs a woman to begat children. I did not say 148 was associated with the doctrine of the Trinity.

Mormonism contradicts the Bible ...

The Bible reveals the LORD created ALL angels with a command (see below) and Mormonism reveals the LORD DID NOT create angels. Mormonism reveals that the LORD is an angel born of heavenly parents.

- Psalm 148:2,5 reveals the LORD created all angels

- Col 1:16 reveals Christ is BEFORE all things, he created all things that ARE IN heaven.

- Ne 9:6 reveals the LORD made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host

Which according to the Lexicon, means they were of the same mind.

Please provide the words from the Lexicon and a reference to the Lexicon you are using.

The Lexicon below says this for the "word" in John 1:1 which is consistent with my words that "John 1 says the Word was in the bosom of the Father."

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

3) In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

Genesis 5:1-3 is more clear on the female component of God. Notice that it is a married male and female created in the image of God. Therefore the context is not that God is both male and female, but is a married couple.

Adam and Eve were NOT born of heavenly mother but they were both "formed" by our Heavenly Father(1Tim 2:13).

Like Genesis 1, Genesis 5:1-3 is saying that creatures created are male and female. Genesis 5:1-3 is NOT saying that the creators were a married couple of male and female.

Gen.5

[1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

[3] And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

[Lachoneus]

What part is false ...

This is the false part: "The point is that NO heavenly mother was invovled in the creation of angels. The process was that the LORD commanded and all the angels were created (Psalm 148:2,5)."

Psalms 148 does NOT say that no mother was involved in the creation of angels. Nor does it say that the process of their creation involved ONLY a command from God. There was more to it than a simple command and a mother was definitely involved.

It is not two Gods John 1 says the Word was in the bosom of the Father. In the New Testament instead of the Word in the bosom of the Father, it says the Father was in Son. If the Father was in the Son that does not mean two seperate Gods.

Being in the bosom of God does not make Christ any less a God. He is still a God, and numerically that makes TWO Gods, Christ and the Father.

"Elohim" does not mean many Gods.

This a very false statement. Please learn some Hebrew.

Again your explanation does not fit the verse ... verse 27 says "male and female created he them" ... it other words male and female he created them.

Of course it fits. God created man in the image of "elohim" (the Gods), male and female. How can Eve be in God's image if God is a father (ie male)?

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

There was more to it than a simple command and a mother was definitely involved.

This part is false ... Psalms 148 does NOT reveal, nor any scripture reveals "There was more to it than a simple command and a mother was definitely involved."

Being in the bosom of God does not make Christ any less a God. He is still a God, and numerically that makes TWO Gods, Christ and the Father.

To say "TWO Gods", is simply not consistent with the Old Testament nor the New Testament. The apostle Paul reveals "none other God but one ... one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ" (1Cor 8:4-6).

Of course it fits. God created man in the image of "elohim" (the Gods), male and female. How can Eve be in God's image if God is a father (ie male)?

The Father is spirit. A spirit is neither man nor woman. Eve was formed, the LORD God took the rib from Adam and made a woman.

[Lachoneus]

Psalms 148 does NOT reveal, nor any scripture reveals "There was more to it than a simple command and a mother was definitely involved."

You cited Psalms 148 as proof that God created the angels by a simple command without a mother, but that is NOT what it says. It does NOT say that no mother was involved. It says only that God commanded and the angels were created. It does NOT describe or elaborate on the process of their creation.

For every father, there is a mother.

To say "TWO Gods", is simply not consistent with the Old Testament nor the New Testament. The apostle Paul reveals "none other God but one ... one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ" (1Cor 8:4-6).

Of course it is.

In Genesis God speaks of "us." That is more than one. In John, he says that the Word was "God" also. That is more than one. Paul says, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, . . .." That does not mean that there is only one in all existence. Paul specifically limits his statement to what pertains "to us." Paul also acknowledges, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)" (1 Cor 8:5)

The Father is spirit.

As is man.

A spirit is neither man nor woman.

This is a false statement. The Bible does not reveal this. The Father is male.

Eve was formed, the LORD God took the rib from Adam and made a woman.

The rib is figurative.

Eve was created in the image of "elohim," the Gods (Gen 1:27). She was not male, therefore there are female Gods.

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

You cited Psalms 148 as proof that God created the angels by a simple command without a mother, but that is NOT what it says. It does NOT say that no mother was involved. It says only that God commanded and the angels were created. It does NOT describe or elaborate on the process of their creation.

Psalm 148 does not reveal a mother was involved and does not reveal anything more than a command was involved in the process.

For every father, there is a mother.

When speaking of God I would disagree because Psalm 148 does not reveal a mother.

In Genesis God speaks of "us." That is more than one. In John, he says that the Word was "God" also. That is more than one. Paul says, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, . . .." That does not mean that there is only one in all existence. Paul specifically limits his statement to what pertains "to us." Paul also acknowledges, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)" (1 Cor 8:5)

You are ignoring verse 4 of 1Cor 8 which says "there is none other God but one". Verse 4 does not limit by mentioning "us".

As is man.

Man is spirit and body.

The rib is figurative.

Is this an offical teaching of LDS Church ... if so please provide the reference?

Is 1Tim 2:13 figurative, it says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve" ... is so please explain why you think it is figurative.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Lachoneus,

Psalm 148 does not reveal a mother was involved and does not reveal anything more than a command was involved in the process.

When speaking of God I would disagree because Psalm 148 does not reveal a mother.

You are ignoring verse 4 of 1Cor 8 which says "there is none other God but one". Verse 4 does not limit by mentioning "us".

Man is spirit and body.

Is this an offical teaching of LDS Church ... if so please provide the reference?

I don't know if the Church has any offical teachings.

[johnny]

LifeOnaPlate,

I don't know if the Church has any offical teachings.

What is your view of the LDS magazine Ensign?

[LifeOnaPlate]

I was teasing about your spelling.

For the most part, the Ensign contains a lot of milk. Milk is good, but personally I would not be satisfied by only reading about the gospel through the 4 standard works and the Ensign.

[johnny]

LifeOnaPlate,

For the most part, the Ensign contains a lot of milk. Milk is good, but personally I would not be satisfied by only reading about the gospel through the 4 standard works and the Ensign.

Is Ensign is an official publication of the Church?

In the "Was God A Man First?" BCSpace wrote,

..we see that the Ensign is an official publication of the Church

[LifeOnaPlate]

LifeOnaPlate,

Is Ensign is an official publication of the Church?

In the "Was God A Man First?" BCSpace wrote,

..we see that the Ensign is an official publication of the Church

The Ensign itself says it is "an official publication of the Church," as BC pointed out.

Unrelated question: How old are you?

[Lachoneus]

Psalm 148 does not reveal a mother was involved and does not reveal anything more than a command was involved in the process.

Psalm 148 is not a complete exposition of the process for creating angels. What it "does not reveal" does not establish anything.

When speaking of God I would disagree because Psalm 148 does not reveal a mother.

Your reasoning is illogical. The failure of Psalm 148 to mention a mother means nothing one way or the other. The Psalm is merely silent. Do not build your faith on silence.

You are ignoring verse 4 of 1Cor 8 which says "there is none other God but one". Verse 4 does not limit by mentioning "us".

No I'm not ignoring anything. Again, you are being illogical. In logic there is a principle that the specific (verse 6) overrules (clarifies, explains) the general (verse 4), not the other way around. Why would anyone logically assume that verse 4 some how overrules verse 6? That would be illogical and nonsensical.

Man is spirit and body.

As is God.

Is this an offical teaching of LDS Church ... if so please provide the reference?

Other than the teachings in the temple, there are these statements of which I am aware: (1) "Now about the rib. As for the Lord taking A rib out of Adamâ??s side to make a woman of, he took one out of my side just as much. "But Brother Brigham, would you make it appear that Moses did not tell you the truth?" No, not a particle more than I would that your mother did not tell the truth when she told you that little Billy came from a hollow toad stool. I would not accuse your mother of lying any more [p. 15] than I would Moses. The people in the days of Moses wanted to know things that were not for them, the same as your children do when they want to know where their little brother came from. And he answered them according to their folly, the same as you did your children." (Brigham Young, 2 Brigham Young Addresses (8 Oct 1854)); (2) â??it is said by Moses the historian that the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam and took from his side a rib and formed the woman that Adam called Eve â?? this should be interpreted that the Man Adam like all other Men had the seed within him to propagate his species. but not the woman.â? (Brigham Young, L. John Nuttall Journal (7 February 1877)); (3) "The story of the rib, of course, is figurative.â? (Spencer W. Kimball, â??The Blessings and Responsibilities of Womanhoodâ? Ensign 70-72 (March 1976))

Is 1Tim 2:13 figurative, it says "For Adam was first formed, then Eve" ... is so please explain why you think it is figurative.

I see no reason to think this is figurative. Adam was born first. Eve was born second. Seems simple enough to understand. Why would you think this is figurative?

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

Psalm 148 is not a complete exposition of the process for creating angels. What it "does not reveal" does not establish anything.

Other scriptures reveal this process of creating with a command:

Psalm 33

[6] By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Col.1

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

2Cor.4

[6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Your reasoning is illogical. The failure of Psalm 148 to mention a mother means nothing one way or the other. The Psalm is merely silent. Do not build your faith on silence.

The Mormon faith is built on the idea that Jesus was an angel born of heavenly parents. Psalm 148 reveals this is illogical because Psalm 148 reveals that ALL angels were created by the LORD.

No I'm not ignoring anything. Again, you are being illogical. In logic there is a principle that the specific (verse 6) overrules (clarifies, explains) the general (verse 4), not the other way around. Why would anyone logically assume that verse 4 some how overrules verse 6? That would be illogical and nonsensical.

Neither verse 6 nor verse 4 describe "two Gods" like you have described. Both verses say "one".

As is God.

If God has a body how the Father be above all and in you all (Eph 4:6)?

If God has a body wouldn't the heaven and heaven of heavens contain him (1Kings 8:27)?

If God has a body how can he fill heaven and earth (Jeremiah 23:24)?

If God has a body how can he in hell and heaven (Psalm 139:8 ) ?

Eph.4

[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Kgs.8

[27] But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Jeremiah 23

[24] Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

Pss.139

[8] If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

"The story of the rib, of course, is figurative.?

Thanks for the references ...

I see no reason to think this is figurative. Adam was born first. Eve was born second. Seems simple enough to understand. Why would you think this is figurative?

Why do you say "born", 1Tim 2:13 does not say "born", it says Adam and Eve were "formed".

[Zakuska]

The Mormon faith is built on the idea that Jesus was an angel born of heavenly parents. Psalm 148 reveals this is illogical because Psalm 148 reveals that ALL angels were created by the LORD.

Yet Jesus is Identified as an Angel... the great Angel Actually.

[Lachoneus]

Other scriptures reveal this process of creating with a command:

Psalm 33 [6]

Col.1 [16] [17]

2Cor.4 [6]

No they don't. None of these verses describe the actual process used. They merely say that God commanded something to be done, but they never give the details of how that thing was done.

The Mormon faith is built on the idea that Jesus was an angel born of heavenly parents. Psalm 148 reveals this is illogical because Psalm 148 reveals that ALL angels were created by the LORD.

These are false statements.

"The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. (3 History of the Church 30)

Please provide references to your claim that Jesus was an angel born of heavenly parents. Please define what you mean by "angel." Please define what the LDS mean by "angel."

There is nothing illogical about an angel being born of its parents. Do you know a method of creating any living being that does not involve the parents of that being?

Neither verse 6 nor verse 4 describe "two Gods" like you have described. Both verses say "one".

Verse 6 clearly states that there is one God "to us" after verse 5 explains that there are "Gods many." "Many" is more than one.

If God has a body how the Father be above all and in you all (Eph 4:6)?

If God has a body wouldn't the heaven and heaven of heavens contain him (1Kings 8:27)?

If God has a body how can he fill heaven and earth (Jeremiah 23:24)?

If God has a body how can he in hell and heaven (Psalm 139:8 ) ?

What does having a body have to do with any of these questions? God is all powerful. He can do anything that it is possible to do.

God is above all and in us through the power of His spirit.

Do you think that God is physically larger than heaven? What a monster of a God that would be! He fills heaven and earth through the power of His spirit.

Why do you say "born", 1Tim 2:13 does not say "born", it says Adam and Eve were "formed".

There is only one way to "form" a human being. All human beings are born. Where did you get the idea that there was some other way to form a human being? Adam was not a brick. He was a human being, just like us. He was formed the same way we were formed. In Genesis 2:7 the English translation says Adam was "formed" from the dust of the ground. The Hebrew word is yatsar, which refers to the conception of a human being. Notice, for example, Jeremiah 1:5 - "I formed [Heb yatsar] thee in the belly." Jeremiah was not a brick any more than Adam was.

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

No they don't. None of these verses describe the actual process used. They merely say that God commanded something to be done, but they never give the details of how that thing was done.

What is your interpretation of Psalm 33:6; Col 1:16,17?

Please provide references to your claim that Jesus was an angel born of heavenly parents. Please define what you mean by "angel." Please define what the LDS mean by "angel."

Below are some references.

Like I said earlier, Psalm 148 reveals Mormon doctrine is illogical because Psalm 148 reveals that angels were created by the LORD and the Mormon Church teaches Jesus was a spirit born of heavenly parents.

Chapter 2 of the Mormon Gospel Principles says:

Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven. The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ (see D&C 93:21), so he is literally our elder brother (see Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 26). Because we are the spiritual children of our heavenly parents, we have inherited the potential to develop their divine qualities.

MORMON GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES Angels says:

Angels who are spirits have not yet obtained a body of flesh and bone

There is nothing illogical about an angel being born of its parents. Do you know a method of creating any living being that does not involve the parents of that being?

Psalm 148 reveals the method how angels are created, the LORD commanded and they are created:

Pss.148

[2] Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

[5] Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

Verse 6 clearly states that there is one God "to us" after verse 5 explains that there are "Gods many." "Many" is more than one.

So is Paul teaching "one" or many" Gods in 1Cor 8:4-6?

Clearly it is illogical to teach both since in verse 4 he says "there is none other God but one".

1Cor 8

[4] As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

[5] For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

What does having a body have to do with any of these questions?

Eph 4:6, 1Kings 8:27, and Jeremiah 23:24 reveal that the Father has no form, he has no body.

God is all powerful. He can do anything that it is possible to do.

What is not possiable for him to do?

D&C 130:3 says it is a false idea that a Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart, yet Eph 4:6 reveals "Father ... is above all ... in you all".

God is above all and in us through the power of His spirit

Why do you twist scripture, Eph 4:6 does not reveal "through the power of His spirit".

Do you think that God is physically larger than heaven?

Both Eph 4:6 and 1Kings 8:27 reveal that the heavens cannot contain God, these scripture do not fit the Mormon idea that God has a physcial body.

Eph.4

[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Kgs.8

[27] But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

There is only one way to "form" a human being. All human beings are born. Where did you get the idea that there was some other way to form a human being?

I get the idea from scripture, Roman 9 says:

Rom.9

[20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

[21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

In Genesis 2:7 the English translation says Adam was "formed" from the dust of the ground. The Hebrew word is yatsar, which refers to the conception of a human being.

For "formed" the lexicon says: 1) to form, fashion, frame.

Roman 9:21 tells us that this forming is like a potter over clay.

Notice, for example, Jeremiah 1:5 - "I formed [Heb yatsar] thee in the belly." Jeremiah was not a brick any more than Adam was.

Jereiah was formed in a belly, Adam was NOT formed in a belly, but from the dust of the ground.

[Lachoneus]

What is your interpretation of Psalm 33:6; Col 1:16,17?

God gave commands and those commands were obeyed. The actual details of the process by which those command were obeyed is not described.

Like I said earlier, Psalm 148 reveals Mormon doctrine is illogical because Psalm 148 reveals that angels were created by the LORD and the Mormon Church teaches Jesus was a spirit born of heavenly parents.

Psalm 148 does NOT describe the method by which the angels were created. It says only that they were created. All living things are created by being born of their parents, including angels.

Psalm 148 tells us of the method how angels are created

No, it does not. Repeating a false statement over and over does not make it true. Psalm 148 does not describe the method by which the angels were created.

So is Paul teaching "one" or many" Gods in 1Cor 8:3-6.

Clearly it is illogical to teach both since in verse 4 he says "there is none other God but one".

Paul clearly teaches that there are "5 . . . Gods many, and lords many, 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father."

These verses reveal that the Father has no form, he has no body.

No they don't. This is a false statement. These verses make no such statement.

What is not possiable for him to do?

God cannot lie (Num 23:19, Titus 1:2). He cannot sin (Mark 10:18; Heb 6:18). He cannot cease to exist (Ex 3:14; Mal 3:6).

D&C 130:3 says it is a false idea that a Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart, yet Eph 4:6 reveals "Father ... is above all ... in you all".

D&C 130:3 says, "the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false." This is an explanation of John 14:23. The false old sectarian idea is that the Father and Son live ("dwell") personally and individually in our hearts. This is false. They are real persons who live in heaven. They can appear to men as set forth in John 14:23. They "dwell" in our hearts through the power of Their spirits.

Why do you twist scripture, Eph 4:6 does not reveal "through the power of His spirit".

Eph 4:6 is not a complete exposition of all truth. Just because something is not revealed in this verse does not make that thing false.

I get the idea from scripture, Roman 9 says:

This is an analogy. Men are not actually clay. We are not actually formed on a potter's wheel like clay. We are born of our parents. Paul's reference to clay and the potter's wheel is clearly a figurative expression.We are not really pottery or bricks. We are human beings. Adam also was not a brick, he was a human being like us. He was born of his parents the same as all human beings.

Jereiah was formed in a belly, Adam was NOT formed in a belly, but from the dust of the ground.

Adam was a human being. He was not a brick. He was formed in a belly just like all human beings.

How do you think Jeremiah was formed in the belly? Did his mother eat food that grew out of the ground? Are not all of us formed from the dust of the ground?

[LifeOnaPlate]

Good stuff, there:

"Listen, ye Latter-day Saints! Supposing that Adam was formed actually out of clay, out of the same kind of material from which bricks are formed; that with this matter God made the pattern of a man, and breathed into it the breath of life, and left it there, in that state of supposed perfection, he would have been an adobie to this day. He would not have known anything...

"You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible; but it is not, to my understanding. You can write that information to the States, if you please-that I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child," (Brigham Young, JoD 2:29)

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

God gave commands and those commands were obeyed. The actual details of the process by which those command were obeyed is not described.

During creation when God gave a command it was not to his Son. Psalm 148 reveals that God simply commanded and angels were created.

Psalm 148 does NOT describe the method by which the angels were created. It says only that they were created. All living things are created by being born of their parents, including angels.

Psalm 148 describes the process, the LORD commanded and they were created.

Which scripture reveals "All living things are created by being born of their parents, including angels"?

Paul clearly teaches that there are "5 . . . Gods many, and lords many, 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father."

What is your interpretation of verse 4, Paul says "there is none other God but one"? If there are none other but one then how can there be many Gods?

No they don't. This is a false statement. These verses make no such statement.

Explain how a body be "above all" and "heavens cannot contain thee".

They are real persons who live in heaven. They can appear to men as set forth in John 14:23. They "dwell" in our hearts through the power of Their spirits.

Scripture does not say "through the power of Their spirits", Eph 4:6 says "the Father ...in you all".

Eph 4:6 is not a complete exposition of all truth. Just because something is not revealed in this verse does not make that thing false.

What other verses make a complete exposition of the truth revealed in Eph 4:6?

This is an analogy. Men are not actually clay. We are not actually formed on a potter's wheel like clay. We are born of our parents. Paul's reference to clay and the potter's wheel is clearly a figurative expression.We are not really pottery or bricks. We are human beings. Adam also was not a brick, he was a human being like us. He was born of his parents the same as all human beings.

Which verse reveals that Adam was born of parents the same as all human beings?

How do you think Jeremiah was formed in the belly? Did his mother eat food that grew out of the ground? Are not all of us formed from the dust of the ground?

Scripture reveals that Adam and Jeremiah were formed different.

[Lachoneus]

Good stuff, there:

(Brigham Young, JoD 2:29)

This is exactly the quote to which I was making reference. Makes sense to me.

[Lachoneus]

Psalm 148 reveals that God simply commanded and angels were created.

Psalm 149 does NOT reveal "simply." You made that up. Psalm 148 does not describe the process followed in creating angels.

Psalm 148 describes the process, the LORD commanded and they were created.

No, it does not. You have said this several times and have failed each time to prove your point. Repeatedly making a false statement does not make it true.

Which scripture reveals "All living things are created by being born of their parents, including angels"?

For example,

"12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:12)

"21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:21)

"25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good." (Genesis 1:25)

All living things come from seeds "after their kind." The seeds come from their parents. Angels are living things.

What is your interpretation of verse 4, Paul says "there is none other God but one"? If there are none other but one then how can there be many Gods?

I have already explained this several times. Paul clearly teaches that there are "5 . . . Gods many, and lords many, 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father." Verse 4 is clarified and amplified by verse 6.

Explain how a body be "above all" and "heavens cannot contain thee".

What does a body have to do with this? Do you think God is physically larger than the heavens? Is he some sort of gigantic monster? This is clearly a metaphorical reference to the superiority of God over all things. It has no reference to God's physical character.

Scripture does not say "through the power of Their spirits", Eph 4:6 says "the Father ...in you all".

God does all His works through the power of His spirit (Rom 15:19, Gen 1:2, 1 Sam 10:10, Matt 12:28).

What other verses make a complete exposition of the truth revealed in Eph 4:6?

All the holy scriptures. They must all be read together for a full understanding. Limiting yourself to one verse here and there always leads to error, as you have amply shown in your many posts.

Which verse reveals that Adam was born of parents the same as all human beings?

I have already explained this. There is only one way to "form" a human being. All human beings are born. Adam was not a brick. He was a human being, just like us. He was formed the same way we were formed because there is only one way to "form" a human being.

In Genesis 2:7 the English translation says Adam was "formed" from the dust of the ground. The Hebrew word translated "formed" is yatsar, which, when applied to human beings, refers to their conception. For example, Jeremiah 1:5 - "I formed [Heb yatsar] thee in the belly." Jeremiah was not a brick or a pot any more than Adam was.

Scripture reveals that Adam and Jeremiah were formed different.

This is a false statement. If it were true you would have cited the scripture that says this. You did not. It is false.

On the other hand, as I have twice shown, the same word [Heb yatsar] is applied to both Jeremiah and Adam. Jeremiah and Adam were both human beings and were both "formed" in the same way. There is no other way to "form" a human being. Just one.

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

No, it does not. You have said this several times and have failed each time to prove your point. Repeatedly making a false statement does not make it true.

Saying "All living things are created by being born of their parents, including angels" does not make it true.

Psalm 148 reveals Mormon doctrine is illogical because Psalm 148 reveals that angels were created by the LORD and the Mormon Church teaches Jesus was a spirit born of heavenly parents.

ll living things come from seeds "after their kind." The seeds come from their parents. Angels are living things.

Angels are not fruit, whales, beast, the scriptures you quoted are not speaking of angels.

Verse 4 is clarified and amplified by verse 6.

I still am not following you, how can "many Gods" be an amplification of "none other God but one"?

What does a body have to do with this? Do you think God is physically larger than the heavens? Is he some sort of gigantic monster? This is clearly a metaphorical reference to the superiority of God over all things. It has no reference to God's physical character.

A body has form and occupies a physcial space. I believe the Bible when it says the heavens cannot contain God. It is NOT a reference to God's physcial character because God is not physical but is a Spirit like Jesus says.

All human beings are born.

Saying "All human beings are born" does not make it true.

In Genesis 2:7 the English translation says Adam was "formed" from the dust of the ground.

That is my point, Adam was formed differently than other men. Were you "formed" from the dust like Adam?

Does Genesis 2:7 describe how you were formed?

Gen.2

[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This is a false statement. If it were true you would have cited the scripture that says this. You did not. It is false.

How can it be false ... Genesis 2:7 says dust and Jeremiah 1:5 says belly.

There is no other way to "form" a human being. Just one.

The Bible describe two, Adam was formed very differently than Jeremiah.

[Lachoneus]

Angels are not fruit, whales, beast, the scriptures you quoted are not speaking of angels.

And your point is . . . ? Angels are living things. All living things are born of their parents. There is not other way. Just one.

I still am not following you, how can "many Gods" be an amplification of "none other God but one"?

Please read carefully. I said, "Verse 4 is clarified and amplified by verse 6." Verse 6 says that "to us" there is only one God. Now, apply this principle to verse 4.

A body has form and occupies a physcial space. I believe the Bible when it says the heavens cannot contain God. It is NOT a reference to God's physcial character because God is not physical but is a Spirit like Jesus says.

I believe the Bible also. I have already explained this - twice. Do you believe in a huge, giganitc, monstrous God?

Adam was formed differently than other men. Were you "formed" from the dust like Adam? Does Genesis 2:7 describe how you were formed?

Adam was formed in the same manner that all men are created. We are all made of the dust of the ground. What did your mother eat while you were forming in her womb? Did she get her food from some other planet, or from this one? If it was this one, then she ate food made from the dust of the earth. Therefore, you are made from the dust of this earth. Being formed from the dust of the earth does not mean we are bricks. Adam was not a brick. He was a human being. He was formed the same as we were formed.

How can it be false ... Genesis 2:7 says dust and Jeremiah 1:5 says belly.

The Bible describe two, Adam was formed very differently than Jeremiah.

Adam and Jeremiah were both formed [Heb yatsar] from the dust of the earth and both were formed [Heb yatsar] within the wombs of their mothers. There is no other way. Just one.

[johnny]

Lachoneus,

All living things are born of their parents.

Saying this does not make it true.

Please read carefully. I said, "Verse 4 is clarified and amplified by verse 6." Verse 6 says that "to us" there is only one God. Now, apply this principle to verse 4.

You are still not making sense ... Verse 6 rephrases the monotheistic confession of v 4 in such a way as to contrast it with polytheism (1 Cor 8:5) and to express our relationship with the one God.

I believe the Bible also. I have already explained this - twice. Do you believe in a huge, giganitc, monstrous God?

I believe in a God which the heaven cannot contain.

If it was this one, then she ate food made from the dust of the earth.

Genesis 2:7 is not describing a mother eating food made from the dust of the earth.

Adam and Jeremiah were both formed [Heb yatsar] from the dust of the earth and both were formed [Heb yatsar] within the wombs of their mothers.

Why do you add to scripture ... Genesis does not mention a mother's womb.

[Zakuska]

The Bible describe two, Adam was formed very differently than Jeremiah.

Thats news to Luke.

Luke 3: 38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

And Paul...

Acts 17

24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.