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Christ Was A Man And Became A God?


JohnBWalt

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Were did you get the idea that Time is the measurement of Change? I have never heard that. Change really has nothing to do with it.

If time stood still, would things change?

Do you believe James 1:17?

Jas.1

[17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

If time stood still, would things change?

Do you believe James 1:17?

Jas.1

[17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

I dont know would they? Can we prove that if time stood still that things wouldnt change? Or can we prove that if change occours that must mean that time is involved? I do believe James 1:17 I believe God is true to himself in a perfect way.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

I dont know would they? Can we prove that if time stood still that things wouldnt change? Or can we prove that if change occours that must mean that time is involved?

Since we can not prove these items using scripture ... let's stick to what we can conclude from scripture.

I do believe James 1:17 I believe God is true to himself in a perfect way.

Is your interpretation of James 1:17 "I believe God is true to himself in a perfect way ...

If not what is your interpretation of James 1:17?

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Since we can not prove these items using scripture ... let's stick to what we can conclude from scripture.

Is your interpretation of James 1:17 "I believe God is true to himself in a perfect way ...

If not what is your interpretation of James 1:17?

Yes I believe God means what He says. I believe God is unchangeing in his principles. He is true to His princples and his own teaching perfectly. Yes? Is he unchangeing in every single aspect of his existance? Thats a good question. It seems God has commanded people through the ages to do diffrent things. Some things seem to be the same, some arent.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Yes I believe God means what He says. I believe God is unchangeing in his principles. He is true to His princples and his own teaching perfectly.

I also believe he is unchanging in his principles.

Yes? Is he unchangeing in every single aspect of his existance? Thats a good question.

I also believe he is unchanging in his divine nature. He did not become God. He is God from everlasting to everlasting.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

I also believe he is unchanging in his principles.

I also believe he is unchanging in his divine nature. He did not become God. He is God from everlasting to everlasting.

What does this scripture mean to you?

Rev3 :14

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God

One theroy of mine is this. I maybe wrong here. ITs just a theory. God has always been God as far as our exsistance is concerned. Now the only part that I have a hard time with is in the LDS books of scriture in Abraham it is said the spirits of man or the inteligence are eternal. Very intersitng in deed? Yes.

PS I know you dont accept the book of Abraham as scritpure. Just thought I would throuhg it in there for some fun.

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I have read a few of the post here and have a couple of comments to make.

1. My son is in my image. I am in him. Those that see him and know me, know that he is my son. Those

that don't know me but know my son, know me the minute they see me as being Mason's dad. With God

and Christ it is the same.

2. Christ became perfected when he recieved his resurrection. He was a perfect mortal, but not perfect in

the sense that he had no need for anymore progression. Christ had to be resurrected and his body

perfected to gain the victory completely. Therefore Christ is now perfect even as his Father in heaven is

perfect. If it were not the case, Christ would have said be perfect even as I am. (He does by the way in

the Book of Mormon after his resurrection.)

3. The scriptures make vividly clear Jesus grew line upon line. Luke 2:52 he increased in wisdom and

stature and in favour with God. How, if he was God by your definition? Hebrews 1:2 Christ is appointed

heir to all the Father has. How, if he is God, doesn't he already have it all? Hebrews 5:8 Christ learned

obediance by the things which he suffered. How, if he is God wouldn't he already know obediance?

Please, don't tell me these are all proverbs and parables. These are scritural acounts of the Saviour himself, progressing in his mortal existance. I can not perscribe to the fact that Christ was God in the sense that some here are portraying him as. God is God, Christ is his Son and heir. There is some small truth, some tiny bit of understanding that will make all these scriptures fit together in one common understanding of the truth of the nature of God and Christ.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

What does this scripture mean to you?

Rev 3:14 means that Christ is the source of God's creation. A concept found also in John 1:3; Col 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:2; Proverb 8:22-31. Christ is before God's creation. Before God's creation he was God.

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flavo,

How, if he was God by your definition?

He was God by his divinity,

- He was God before his incarnation (John 1:1)

- He was fully God while on earth (Col 2:9)

- He was equal in glory after his resurrectin (Heb 1:3)

Christ did NOT become God ...

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Rev 3:14 means that Christ is the source of God's creation. A concept found also in John 1:3; Col 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:2; Proverb 8:22-31. Christ is before God's creation. Before God's creation he was God.

Nope it doesnt say he was there before Gods creations. It says he is the beginning of the creation of God, not Before. It doesnt say that creation began with Christ, either.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Rev 3:14 means that Christ is the source of God's creation. A concept found also in John 1:3; Col 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:2; Proverb 8:22-31. Christ is before God's creation. Before God's creation he was God.

But only because God created him before anything else.

"I was brought Forth before his works of old"

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But only because God created him before anything else.

"I was brought Forth before his works of old"

I concour with the above statement. Thanks for the clarifing. :P

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Now what I want to know... is what God and Christ where doing with all these sons of men before the creation of the world.

Prov 8

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Nope it doesnt say he was there before Gods creations. It says he is the beginning of the creation of God, not Before. It doesnt say that creation began with Christ, either.

Scripture reveals he was BEFORE creation (Col 1:17).

Col.1

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Scripture reveals he was BEFORE creation (Col 1:17).

Col.1

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Yes Johnny, He is before all things as to pertaning to this earth. Cleary Rev 3:14 states that he was the beginning of Gods creations. There is no other way to try to get out of this scripture. It is clear as day. So what must happen to our understanding off how things are created. It must change when we learn something new. We cant force our view on the scriptures, can we? The Bible seems to only give an account of this earth. Nothing else is really mentioned. It is the only way it can be interpreted once we realize that Christ is the beginning of Gods creations. If it is not the only way to interpret the scriptures then there appears to be a contradiction.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

But only because God created him before anything else.

Christ was NOT created before anything else ... God's wisdom was brought forth (Proverbs 8:24)

The Lord was NOT created like the angels with a command because the Lord created all the angels.

Pss.148

[2] Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

[5] Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

Mola Ram Suda Ram,

But only because God created him before anything else.

Christ was NOT created before anything else ... God's wisdom was brought forth (Proverbs 8:24)

The Lord was not created like the angels with a command because the Lord created all the angels.

Pss.148

[2] Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

[5] Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Christ was NOT created before anything else ... God's wisdom was brought forth (Proverbs 8:24)

The Lord was NOT created like the angels with a command because the Lord created all the angels.

Pss.148

[2] Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

[5] Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Christ was NOT created before anything else ... God's wisdom was brought forth (Proverbs 8:24)

The Lord was not created like the angels with a command because the Lord created all the angels.

Pss.148

[2] Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

[5] Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

Now your contradictin scripture Johnny. Do you deny what it says in Rev 3:14? It is clear. Christ is the beginning of Gods creations.

also,the Bible is an account of this earth. It is not an account of the universe.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Yes Johnny, He is before all things as to pertaning to this earth.

Col.1 is NOT only describing the things "pertaning to this earth". Is describing all things created in heaven, visible and invisible. The Lord created all the angels with a command (Psalm 148:2,5).

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Yes Johnny, He is before all things as to pertaning to this earth.
Col.1 is NOT only describing the things "pertaning to this earth". Is describing all things created in heaven, visible and invisible.

That's right, but the lexiconal context is everything visible and invisible in the physical universe, not the place where God dwells.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Now your contradictin scripture Johnny. Do you deny what it says in Rev 3:14? It is clear. Christ is the beginning of Gods creations.

also,the Bible is an account of this earth. It is not an account of the universe.

There is no contradition. Christ is God's word that "by whom are all things (1Cor 8:6). Rev 3:14 is saying the Christ is the source of God's creation in heaven and in hearth. It an account of everything in this universe.

1Cor.8

[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

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BCSpace,

That's right, but the lexiconal context is everything visible and invisible in the physical universe, not the place where God dwells.

Scripture clearly says "in heaven". God dwells in heaven, but also transcends heaven, he is also "above all" (Eph 4:6).

Col.1

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Eph.4

[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

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But only because God created him before anything else.
Christ was NOT created before anything else ... God's wisdom was brought forth (Proverbs 8:24)

Incorrect again. Christ possessed wisdom (an abstraction that is just a property belonging to something already created) and then brought it forth (Proverbs 8:22-24)

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That's right, but the lexiconal context is everything visible and invisible in the physical universe, not the place where God dwells.

Scripture clearly says "in heaven". God dwells in heaven, but also transcends heaven, he is also "above all" (Eph 4:6).

Check your Lexicon. There are multiple words translated as 'heaven' into English. If Paul had wanted to refer to the heaven God dwells in rather than the physical universe, it is more likely he would've chosen a term who's primary definition is that.

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BCSpace,

Incorrect again. Christ possessed wisdom (an abstraction that is just a property belonging to something already created) and then brought it forth (Proverbs 8:22-24)

Christ is the wisdom of God (1Cor 1:24). Wisdom was brought forth (Proverbs 8:22-24).

1Cor.1

[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Col.1 is NOT only describing the things "pertaning to this earth". Is describing all things created in heaven, visible and invisible. The Lord created all the angels with a command (Psalm 148:2,5).

I should back up a little bit here. I wasnt very clear on some things. The Bible does not contain Gods dealing with people on other planets. I do say that through Christ all things are created. How ever the Bible does say Christ is the beginning of the creations of God.

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