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Eternal Marriage


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LifeOnaPlate,

Forgive our confusion, it feels like you may be unduly complicating the issue. It seems you feel there is a difference between "man and wife" and a married couple; "husband and wife." I am unclear on why you distinguish between the two, as they seem to be the same thing.

I distinguish between the two in the case of Adam and Eve, they were "man and wife" but they did not receive the sacrament of marriage.

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One can still have this relationship but it simply not with "three or more" it is with "two".

Then around this bush we go... Someone who was having an intense relationship will now not have such an intense relationship. Remove the ability to make love with an individual whom you were having such a relationship with, and (trust me on this one) sadness and suffering prevail. Just ask a couple who's husband had prostate cancer, or ask the couple who has divorced.

A "second marriage" is not supported in the New Covenant.

Then why sanction a second one in the Church of God if it is not to be supported after the resurrection? I know I know, the second marriage in real life is not polygamy, but it will lead to a polygamous situation in the resurrection and someone will end up being "rebuked". Why sanction cigarette smoking if you know it will cause pain and suffering later on?

What "extremem discrepancies" are you talking about ... please be specific.

If the scriptures say polygamy is a no no, then remarriage after death of a spouse which is sanctioned by the Lord is a discrepancy, and a big one at that. If Bishops are to take wife, and they do not in your church, then explaining this some other way is a discrepancy and a big one at that. A husband and wife EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE BIBLE is described as a relationship where sex is sanctioned (and assumed). To see polygamy accepted by the Lord throughout history, and then to tell me that it is an abomination unto the Lord is (again) an extreme discrepancy.

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LifeOnaPlate,

I distinguish between the two in the case of Adam and Eve, they were "man and wife" but they did not receive the sacrament of marriage.

This is not correct. A "man and wife" are a married couple. Unmarried couples are NOT "man and wife." Because at the time Adam and Eve were in the Garden there was no civil authority, the only marriage they could have experienced was the sacrament of marriage performed by God Himself. Therefore, whether or not the Bible mentions the specific act of marriage, they definitely received the sacrament of marriage in the Garden. Please remember that the Bible does not mention everything that ever happened. Therefore, the fact that the Bible does not mention their marriage is irrelevant to whether or not they were married. We know they were married because Eve is called Adam's wife, not because the marriage ceremony is described.

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Johnny doesn't come across as someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. I agree that this feels like circular logic, but I think we are missing something here in the translation. I hope when he comes back on we can get a better understanding of what exactly we are missing. I can't say that I agree with it, but I have a feeling that it will make sense and the circular logic part of it will fall out eventually.

You don't know Johnny like I know Johnny. You'll see.

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I am beginning to think you are right here.... :P

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I have a thought, Some people will choose to disagree with and Lds person only becuase it is an LDS person saying it. I have seen this a few times here.

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Nephi,

Then around this bush we go... Someone who was having an intense relationship will now not have such an intense relationship. Remove the ability to make love with an individual whom you were having such a relationship with, and (trust me on this one) sadness and suffering prevail. Just ask a couple who's husband had prostate cancer, or ask the couple who has divorced.

How can suffering prevail if in the resurrection there is no suffering.

Then why sanction a second one in the Church of God if it is not to be supported after the resurrection? I know I know, the second marriage in real life is not polygamy, but it will lead to a polygamous situation in the resurrection and someone will end up being "rebuked".

As I have shown earlier, the end result is not a polygamous situation in the resurrection.

If the scriptures say polygamy is a no no, then remarriage after death of a spouse which is sanctioned by the Lord is a discrepancy, and a big one at that.

There is no discrepancy because in the resurrection their is no polygamous situation.

If Bishops are to take wife, and they do not in your church, then explaining this some other way is a discrepancy and a big one at that.

There is no discrepancy because 1Tim 3:2 does not say a Bishop has to take a wife .... it says "the husband of one wife" ... a Bishop chooses not to take a wife.

A husband and wife EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE BIBLE is described as a relationship where sex is sanctioned (and assumed).

There is no discrepancy. A husband and a wife is "two" ... "two" can have a sexual relationship ... "three or more" I don't think so ...

To see polygamy accepted by the Lord throughout history, and then to tell me that it is an abomination unto the Lord is (again) an extreme discrepancy.

There is no discrepancy, polygamy is in the history of the Old Covenant. Polygamy is not in the history in the New Covenant.

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A husband and a wife is "two" ... "two" can have a sexual relationship ... "three or more" I don't think so ...

There is no discrepancy, polygamy is in the history of the Old Covenant. Polygamy is not in the history in the New Covenant.

Not to your knowledge, clearly.

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Lachoneus,

Because at the time Adam and Eve were in the Garden there was no civil authority, the only marriage they could have experienced was the sacrament of marriage performed by God Himself.

Why do you and "LifeOnaPlate" differ ....

"You say the sacrament of marriage was performed in the Garden, and earlier "LifeOnaPlate" said "in the Garden, no baptism was needed " and "without being married" ...

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Lachoneus,

Why do you and "LifeOnaPlate" differ ....

"You say the sacrament of marriage was performed in the Garden, and earlier "LifeOnaPlate" said "in the Garden, no baptism was needed " and "without being married" ...

What on earth are you talking about? Why are you throwing out irrelevancies?

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Lachoneus,

Why do you and "LifeOnaPlate" differ ....

"You say the sacrament of marriage was performed in the Garden, and earlier "LifeOnaPlate" said "in the Garden, no baptism was needed " and "without being married" ...

Dude, it is really frustrating talking with you. Don't twist my words, please. I can't even begin to appraoch an understanding of how you spliced these random phrases together in the effort of making some kind of point. Lachoneus and I are 100% in agreement. Perhaps your inability to clearly understand that hints towards why this conversation is going nowhere.

We get it: We accept scripture in addition to the Bible; you don't.

Adam and Eve were husband and wife, married in the garden of eden. They didn't need to be baptised at that time because they didn't yet need redemption.

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I need help here, in more ways than one. :P When can a man and a women be husband and wife with out being married?

I have never heard of that definition before.

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I need help here, in more ways than one. :P When can a man and a women be husband and wife with out being married?

I have never heard of that definition before.

Well, first Johnny said:

Many couples do simply exchange vows withtou getting married.

Then he said:

Fornication relationships will not maintained in the resurrection.

Then he said:

If there [those living together without being married] vows were true to each other they would spend eternity together.

If you figure it out, let me know.

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Lachoneus and I are 100% in agreement. Perhaps your inability to clearly understand that hints towards why this conversation is going nowhere.

We get it: We accept scripture in addition to the Bible; you don't.

Adam and Eve were husband and wife, married in the garden of eden. They didn't need to be baptised at that time because they didn't yet need redemption.

Ditto

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LifeOnaPlate,

Adam and Eve were husband and wife, married in the garden of eden. They didn't need to be baptised at that time because they didn't yet need redemption.

Please describe to us the details of this marriage in the garden ... was it the sacrament of marriage ... was it a ceremony ... was it before there fall ...

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LifeOnaPlate,

Please describe to us the details of this marriage in the garden ... was it the sacrament of marriage ... was it a ceremony ... was it before there fall ...

Please tell me how many times the word, "trinity" appears in the Bible.

Good grief, Johnny, your obfuscation is silly.

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LifeOnaPlate,

Please describe to us the details of this marriage in the garden ... was it the sacrament of marriage ... was it a ceremony ... was it before there fall ...

I was certain it was already explained that all that ever happened is veily not included in the current Biblical canon. The Bible is neither complete, nor perfect. It contains some of the dealings of God with a portion of some of His children. While the sealing of Adam and Eve in the Garden is not described in your current canon, it is explained elsewhere. That's all I wish to say on the subject. The Bible calls Eve Adam's wife; I figure that is specific enough for us to conclude in order to be a wife a woman must be married to a husband- or a "man" if you want to equivocate. So they were married for eternity in the garden [because there was no death. Thus a marriage would last forever.] That eternal marriage would be restored through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

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My whole premise here may be in error, but if I understand the mainstream Christian's understanding of Adam and Eve, they believe the fall of Adam and Eve was a bad thing. As I understand it, they believe that God intended them to life forever in paradise in the presence of God. Now, if this is so, then would God have eventually forced a divorce on Adam and Eve, since the mainstream belief is that there is no marriage in heaven? In other words, if Adam and Eve had never partaken of the forbidden fruit, would they have been married for eternity? And if so, why not us?

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I should add to the OP there is a great discourse in the first volume of the Journal of Discourses where this point is emphasized: Adam and Eve were married for eternity in the Garden. The fall broke that for a time, as death entered the scene, but that marriage would be resurrected through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

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Please describe to us the details of this marriage in the garden ... was it the sacrament of marriage ... was it a ceremony ... was it before there fall ...

The Bible often omits such details. Can you describe the details of Abram's marriage to Sarai? Was it the sacrament of marriage? Was it a ceremony? [Remember that Abraham was used by Christ as an example of one who had been received into heaven (Luke 16:22)]

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LifeOnaPlate,

While the sealing of Adam and Eve in the Garden is not described in your current canon, it is explained elsewhere.

Where is this explained, please provide the reference ... thanks.

That eternal marriage would be restored through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

What do you mean by it "would be restored" ... why would you have to restore something if it is eternal?

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Lachoneus,

Can you describe the details of Abram's marriage to Sarai? Was it the sacrament of marriage? Was it a ceremony? [Remember that Abraham was used by Christ as an example of one who had been received into heaven (Luke 16:22)]

It was not the sacrament of marriage because the sacrament of marriage is part of the New Covenant. It was not a ceremony in a Mormon temple.

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The Bible often omits such details. Can you describe the details of Abram's marriage to Sarai? Was it the sacrament of marriage? Was it a ceremony? [Remember that Abraham was used by Christ as an example of one who had been received into heaven (Luke 16:22)]

I'd like for some one to describe Abrahams marraige to Hagar.

LifeOnaPlate,

It was not the sacrament of marriage because the sacrament of marriage is part of the New Covenant. It was not a ceremony in a Mormon temple.

CFR.

It's part of the Old covenant too. Thus Christ's appeal to it when the topic of divorce came up. :P

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