Becomming Straight

[cacheman]

They did. The Netherlands and Italy were in on it too. It was not in the official resolution, it was in the debate prior.

CFR. You do realize that there are over 20 MEP's just from France don't you? Only one spoke out, even though she didn't say what is implied in the WND article.

Please provide me with the statements from the Dutch and Italian representatives. I want their actual statements, not the WND "paraphrase".

cacheman

[cacheman]

For those that would win converts to homosexuality - WHY? The victory is completely hollow.

I liked a lot of what you said in your thoughtful post. I just wanted to address this question. Like you, I don't see much benefit in converting someone to homosexuality, but I do see enormous benefit in working to create an environment where homosexuals share in social equality. There are too many individuals that suffer needlessly in silence, because to "come out" would create even more pain. In some societies, the homosexual is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. This is what the EU is trying to prevent in Poland.

cacheman

[Hawkmoon]

Yeah....he changed his sexual orientation. What an achievement

Actually it is... now, you may disagree with it but it is a difficult thing for a people to do, especially as related to homosexuality.

[Jan]

I'm a little surprised at the people lauding this guy as a hero. It seems to me that he is an ex-member of an organization that feels he has seen the light, and has now made it his mission to publically castigate the organization and the people it represents, all the while distorting facts in a way that bolsters his case to make the "others" look bad. Usually, these types of people aren't taken seriously on this board.

cacheman

Oh, you mean vociferous ex-Mos?

(Just saw that RoPh beat me to the punch when I finished the thread. Sorry.)

[cacheman]

Oh, you mean vociferous ex-Mos?

Et voila!

What we are seeing here is an exit story published on a site known to be stridently against his former lifestyle. In this context, he lets us know that he has now seen the light and knows the underlying motivations for all homosexual actions (not just his own). Compare to exit stories on rfm.

cacheman

"(Just saw that RoPh beat me to the punch when I finished the thread. Sorry.)"

Hey, it bears repeating.

[humblest_guy_in_universe]

Uh huh... and why is that homosexuality scares some people so much?

cacheman

Because it tends to affect your math skills. It seems to cause people to use the word "some" in places where the word "most" is more accurate.

Now if you can excuse my _subjective_ sarcasm, I do see your point. Asserting that something is true because it is scary to some or many is not firm ground for logical debate.

Good catch!

It does work well as a faith promoting idea for myself, however.

Perhaps the article was written more for people who believe as I do than for those who practice homosexuallity.

[It occurs to me . . .]

Perhaps the article was written more for people who believe as I do than for those who practice homosexuallity.

Finally! Someone who understands the point of RFM!

[Hawkmoon]

Finally! Someone who understands the point of RFM!

If only THAT was truly the case... but we know that it goes beyond this, don't we?

[Del March]

I believe that all people, intrinsically, know the truth. I believe that is why Christianity scares people so much. It reminds them of their conscience, which we all possess.

Whatever.

First, I didn't know that Christianity scared people.

Second, many Christians act as though they had no conscience, while many non-Christians act as though they had a high conscience.

Third, we Christians are not allowed to judge what is in someone else's heart, and yet, this guy does it twice: not only does he say that everybody knows "the truth", but also that those who refuse Christianity do it because they don't want to act according to their conscience! So much for being a Christian!

In European countries, homosexuality is considered so normal that grade-school children are being provided "gay" children's books as required reading in public schools.

CFR. I happen to have lived in two European countries so far, and I have never noticed that grade-school kids are being made to read "gay children's books".

Poland, a country all-too familiar with the destruction of its people by outside influences, is bravely attempting to stop the European Union from indoctrinating its children with homosexual propaganda. In response, the European Union has called the prime minister of Poland "repulsive."

This is it. This guy has completely lost my confidence. Not only is he judging other people's hearts, but he's outright lying about my corner of the world in order to make his point in his corner of the world. Disgusting.

[Anijen]

The angels rejoice over one sinner... or something like that. I wouldn't call him a hero but after 16 years of slavery to homosexuality it is an achievement. Can you imagine after 16 years your son comes up to you and says dad I have repented of this... I don't think a loving dad would say sarcastically "some achievement"

I rejoice with you and admire you too. Anyone any sin that holds someone that long I would have to also be rejoicing.

[BCSpace]

Third, we Christians are not allowed to judge what is in someone else's heart, and yet, this guy does it twice:

By your logic, he's only obeying the Biblical injunction found in 1 Cor 6:2.

not only does he say that everybody knows "the truth", but also that those who refuse Christianity do it because they don't want to act according to their conscience! So much for being a Christian!

Yet it's actually a Christian doctrine that we intrinsinctly know the difference between right and wrong. Moroni 7:15-19

CFR. I happen to have lived in two European countries so far, and I have never noticed that grade-school kids are being made to read "gay children's books".

You honestly have never heard of the titles: "Sissy Duckling", "Daddy's Room mate", and "Hello Sailor"?

This is it. This guy has completely lost my confidence. Not only is he judging other people's hearts, but he's outright lying about my corner of the world in order to make his point in his corner of the world. Disgusting.

I'd say you don't know very much at all about what's happening in your part of the world regarding these issues. For starters, see what the European Commision Directorate General for Health and Consumer Protection has been organizing and funding with the help of the IPPF (International Planned Parenthood Federation) for the purpose of "...helping EU Member States to improve the exchange of information and best practices on adolescent sexual and reproductive health and rights and sexuality education."

Sexuality Education in Europe

A believing Christian, by definition, would be outraged.

[Bond...James Bond]

Actually it is... now, you may disagree with it but it is a difficult thing for a people to do, especially as related to homosexuality.

And what of all the closet gays who play at being straight? Are they heros when they admit the truth of their sexual orientation?

[Bond...James Bond]

No, I think what BC is saying is that he is a hero for, in the face of what must be incredible opposition from his former associates, coming forth and publicly opposing the evil they've been doing.

Trust me, this dude isn't a hero. He's just someone who changed their mind about their sexual orientation. He's called a hero by homophobes when he goes from gay to straight, but if he goes from straight to gay he's what? A pervert?

[BCSpace]

And what of all the closet gays who play at being straight? Are they heros when they admit the truth of their sexual orientation?

Of course not. One usually has to overcome such weaknesses before being eligible for heroship. Say rather that they have taken the first step, to admit they have a problem.

[jadams_4242]

name='BCSpace' date='Jul 3 2007, 04:50 PM' post='1208215226']

Of course not. One usually has to overcome such weaknesses before being eligible for heroship. Say rather that they have taken the first step, to admit they have a problem.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

Of course not. One usually has to overcome such weaknesses before being eligible for heroship. Say rather that they have taken the first step, to admit they have a problem.

Maybe they should start by convincing themselves their scared of Christianity?

...that might get the process moving...

[SolarPowered]

No, I think what BC is saying is that he is a hero for, in the face of what must be incredible opposition from his former associates, coming forth and publicly opposing the evil they've been doing.

Trust me, this dude isn't a hero. He's just someone who changed their mind about their sexual orientation. He's called a hero by homophobes when he goes from gay to straight,

You have quoted my earlier reply to you, but appear to have either not read it or not understood it. He is a "hero" for standing up to his former associates, and publicly opposing the evil that his former associates are involved in.

but if he goes from straight to gay he's what? A pervert?

If you wish to use that term, I won't argue with you about your usage.

...by homophobes...

I take great exception to your use of that made-up pejorative to attempt to paint as somehow mentally-deranged those who listen to their consciences and refer to evil as "evil."

[Hawkmoon]

And what of all the closet gays who play at being straight? Are they heros when they admit the truth of their sexual orientation?

Well, I don't know... some may be... of course, I never said he was a hero so your post has little merit. What I did say was it is an acheivement and hard to do... whether you agree with the premise for doing it or not. Now, perhaps, you will notice how little your response has to do with mine?

[Hawkmoon]

Trust me, this dude isn't a hero. He's just someone who changed their mind about their sexual orientation. He's called a hero by homophobes when he goes from gay to straight, but if he goes from straight to gay he's what? A pervert?

Ah! When all else fails bring out the ol' homophobe charge... it certainly is easier than actually forming a cogent rebuttal, isn't it?

[SolarPowered]

Trust me, this dude isn't a hero. He's just someone who changed their mind about their sexual orientation.

I note that you acknowledge that "sexual orientation" is something that one can change his/her mind about. Which complete undercuts all arguments that we should condone and support their evil because "they can't help themselves."

[solomarineris]

A true hero for our time.

No doubt, he will convince you and like minded people.

For every ONE of him there's TEN THOUSAND, who had no choice or say about their sexual orientation when they were born.

Either way, if they live in United States of America or any part of Western World they have a chance to survive and live as productive decent human beings.

[Pahoran]

No doubt, he will convince you and like minded people.

For every ONE of him there's TEN THOUSAND, who had no choice or say about their sexual orientation when they were born.

Either way, if they live in United States of America or any part of Western World they have a chance to survive and live as productive decent human beings.

And isn't that what Mr. Glatze is trying to do? Become a decent human being by repenting of his sins?

Regards,

Pahoran

[SolarPowered]

For every ONE of him there's TEN THOUSAND, who had no choice or say about their sexual orientation when they were born.

So, you're arguing that homosexual behavior results from a genetic defect that renders its victims wholly unable to regulate their sexual behavior? Kind of like a sexual version of Tourette's Syndrome?

[juliann]

I'm a little surprised at the people lauding this guy as a hero. It seems to me that he is an ex-member of an organization that feels he has seen the light, and has now made it his mission to publically castigate the organization and the people it represents, all the while distorting facts in a way that bolsters his case to make the "others" look bad. Usually, these types of people aren't taken seriously on this board.

It is hypocrisy and double standards that aren't taken seriously. I agree with your assessment. His position would be much stronger if he didn't throw in the religious angle. There are much more pragmatic, accessible and observable reasons to change his lifestyle. But now I expect you to be true to your word and I expect to see this same statement whenever we get an exmo pushing the same thing. I hope your observation isn't just another cheap shot and double standard. Time will tell, eh?

[cacheman]

It is hypocrisy and double standards that aren't taken seriously. I agree with your assessment. His position would be much stronger if he didn't throw in the religious angle. There are much more pragmatic, accessible and observable reasons to change his lifestyle. But now I expect you to be true to your word and I expect to see this same statement whenever we get an exmo pushing the same thing. I hope your observation isn't just another cheap shot and double standard. Time will tell, eh?

Just another cheap shot? I've argued against stereotypes consistently on this board and others. I'd hoped that was obvious by now. I've often juxtaposed stereotypical statements from both sides to illustrate how it might sound to those on the receiving end, just as I've done on this thread. Yeah, I think time has already told.

cacheman