Adieu

[hagoth7]

....Was it because adieu was very frequently used by everyone in Joseph Smith's milieu that he chose to translate (or compose) the text with this term?....

[emphasis added]

Adieu was no longer just a French word in 1828. It had also become English, in the form of a loanword. Much like your interesting choice of the French loanword milieu. Only difference being the first word has somewhat recently fallen out of fashion.

Milieu suited you best for whatever reason, perhaps as Hamer suggested, for effect.

So although I'm trying to understand, I don't yet see the supposed problem.

[Thinking]

I don't see a big problem with the use of adieu because English is language which has evolved and is continually evolving. Whether you believe the Book of Mormon or not, it was translated/written into an imperfect language, so there will definitely be some grammatical problems.

[Guest Cyberherbalist]

I was just going to suggest that. Though I was going to add that it is possible that Jacob could have employed two different expression that both essentially translate to "farewell", but Joseph felt this seemed awkward in English, so translated one of them as "Adieu."

Maybe "Adieu" is the word that was displayed in the spectacles or the seerstone.

Yes, I know. Radical.

[Guest Cyberherbalist]

[emphasis added]

Adieu was no longer just a French word in 1828. It had also become English, in the form of a loanword. Much like your interesting choice of the French loanword milieu. Only difference being the first word has somewhat recently fallen out of fashion.

And has anyone considered the historical fact that in 1066 AD the Norman French conquered England, and today's English is a mongrel of Anglo-Saxon and French (among others). "Adieu" is an English word, just like "pork", "mutton", and "beef". Which come from French and are the Anglo-Saxonized versions of pig, sheep and cow.

So although I'm trying to understand, I don't yet see the supposed problem.

Ditto.

[Bernard Gui]

"Adieu" was not out of place in the English writings of Joseph Smith's era.

It was commonly used in literature and poetry, and, I imagine, in common

conversation. There is no reason to criticize its use in the Book of Mormon.

Since it means, "I commend you to God," or "Farewell until

we meet with God," I can imagine Jacob, over 2000 years ago, saying

"I commend you to God" or something similar.

Can't you? How about, "Farewell, until we meet

at God's throne?" That is the implied meaning of "adieu."

Compare

2 Nephi 33:13 "...farewell until that great day shall come."

2 Nephi 33:14 "...I bid you an everlasting farewell..."

Jacob 6:13 "...I bid you farewell, until I shall meet you before

the pleasing bar of God..."

Jacob 7:25 "...and to the reader I bid farewell..."

Alma 37:47 and 38:15 "...My son, farewell."

Ether 12:38 "And now I, Moroni, bid farewell unto the

Gentiles, yea, and also unto my brethren whom I love,

until we shall meet before the judgment-seat of Christ..."

Moroni 8:30 "Farewell, my son..."

Moroni 10:34: "And now I bid unto all, farewell...to meet

you before the pleasing bar of the great Jehovah..."

So, it was fairly common for a Nephite to bid farewell when

he wished to and often to commend them to God.

The issue is why didn't JS simply translate

"Adieu" as "farewell" or "goodbye?" Well, "goodbye" never

appears in the BoM. If Jacob had simply said, "farewell,"

then the passage would have read:

"...and to the reader I bid farewell, hoping that many of my

brethren may read my words. Brethren, farewell."

This does not make sense at all.

He already bade them farewell once. That would make the second

"farewell" redundant. But if he meant, "I commend you to

God," then the passage would not be redundant:

"...and to the reader I bid farewell, hoping that many of my

brethren may read my words. Brethren, I commend you to

God." (or, I'll see you at God's throne.")

Now, since "adieu" is a perfectly good ****English**** that

has a bit more meaning than "farewell," it is perfectly

reasonable to use it in Jacob 4:27 in just the way it was

used. Of course, we wouldn't translate it that way today.

When was the last time someone told you "adieu?" But

in the early 1800s it was certainly used as a common

expression, as I have proven. "Adieu" is far more concise

and economical than "I commend you to God" or "We'll see

each other at God's throne." I can't think of a better way

to express Jacob's sentiment. I certainly can't think of a modern

English equivalent that does it better.

Bernard

[flavo]

Bruit is a French word used in the bible. Wouldn't that cause just as much a problem with its text?

[grego]

Well, that's what you get for looking for the definition in an American dictionary.

Sorry, from my chat-typing style days:

let's see, jacob says "and to the reader i bid farewell, hoping that many of my brethren may read my words. Brethren, adieu."

"adieu", if like "adios" and "addio", are different than "good-bye" in this sense. they are more like "brethren, may God take care of you and may you be in his care, as i cannot anymore, and i wish the best for you, and if we one day meet again, it will be in the presence of/ by the power or planning of God", etc.

granted, jacob could have written that, and more, to get the full meaning, and js could have written more, too. on the other hand, with small plates (and perhaps out of space on the last corner of the last leaf), and perhaps very feeble hands, isn't it ok to say "adieu"? at least it sounds a little "better" than "adios, amigos!" or something like that, maybe?

on the other hand, if he just used another way to "bid farewell", which is the definiton of "adieu", it would read "i bid you farewell...brethren, i bid you farewell." man, what a brutal mistake for js, much more than "adieu", right? could he win?

which word, then, critics, might be used as the appropriate word for "adieu"?

remember, the purpose of the bom is to teach the word of God, etc., not give French or English lessons, or be encyclopedias on lost species, etc. Do you believe God is completely without a sense of humor, completely and absolutely straightforward about everything, etc.?

[Homestar Runner]

No matter how you believe the BoM was translated, "adieu" is a perfectly acceptable word to use.

If Joseph read the translated words off a rock in a hat, God could have used "adieu", and there's no problem.

If Joseph had the meaning of the text revealed directly into his mind by the power of God, he could have used "adieu", and there's no problem.

If Joseph was somehow given the short time ability to translate the text into english via his own limited understanding of use of the english language, he could have used "adieu", and there's no problem.

If Joseph was trying to make his translation understandable by people speaking the english language of the 1800's frontierspeople, he could have used "adieu", and there's no problem.

If Joseph made the whole thing up and was doing the best he could to make the text believable, he could have used "adieu", and there's no problem.

----------------------------------------------------

Adieu is an english word. Just like bizarre, gossip, hero, cancer, eureka, face, hamburger, lounge, canyon, tea, and idiot are all english words. Just like mayhem, stampede, canoe, barbecue, savanna, mortgage, widow, threshold, testify, seceretary, and hickory are all english words. They are all english words, and every single one of them came from some other language.

Just about every time you type a sentence, you are using english words that come from some other language. There isn't an english book, article, magazine, tv show, pamphlet, or cereal box that contains only words invented by English speakers. For some of these words, like adieu (French) and lord (old english), century (Latin) and vigilante (Spanish), most people can tell without too much trouble which language they came from.

Anyone that wishes to criticize the truth claims of the BoM by using 'adieu', I certainly wish them good luck.

p.s. "Good" is Indo-European, and "Luck" is from the Middle Dutch.

[DonBradley]

"Adieu" is far more concise

and economical than "I commend you to God" or "We'll see

each other at God's throne." I can't think of a better way

to express Jacob's sentiment. I certainly can't think of a modern

English equivalent that does it better.

Thanks Bernard. I think this post, and especially this conclusion, pretty well sums up the evidence and best reasoning adduced on this thread. "Adieu" appears from the 1828 Webster's to have been used in a religious context to express the sense of "everlasting farewell" or "farewell till meet at the judgment bar of God," although this same sentiment is expressed in other ways at other points in the Book of Mormon, none of these are as pithy or pack the same punch. In light of what we've covered in this thread, concluding with the word "Adieu" seems a particularly powerful way for the Book of Jacob to end.

Don

[minofyre]

I have never seen the problem with adieu.

It's a colorful flare. I like about smiths translation. Anti's simply need to get over it.

Adieu isn't as important as the meaning of life or the sacrafice of JESUS CHRIST.

[Bsix]

Did you know that the Book of Mormon has another of those pesky French words?

"Savior"

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, "savior" is a French word.

savior

c.1300, "one who delivers or rescues from peril," also a title of Jesus Christ, from O.Fr. sauveour, from L.L. salvatorem (nom. salvator) "a saver, preserver" (cf. Sp. salvador, It. salvatore), from salvatus, pp. of salvare "to save" (see save (v.)). In Christian sense, translation of Gk. soter "savior." Replaced O.E. h

[Bernard Gui]

Did you know that the Book of Mormon has another of those pesky French words?

"Savior"

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, "savior" is a French word.

Yet another proof that Joseph Smith made up the Book of Mormon.

Regards,

Six

Dang!

Here we go again!

Bernard

[Olavarria]

The adeu complaint has alaways struck me as kinda strange. It is as if the anti's dont realize that 40% of english vocab comes from norman french and 30% comes from latin. Im glad the Prophet didnt translate the BoM into Spanish, then they would complain that the book has a bunch of arabic words.

In short, adeu is perfectly good english, yes it originated in french, but so do alot of our "english" words.