Moses 8:13,27 - being called sons of God

[marineland]

What do you make of this section.

Moses 8:13 says, "And Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed, 
and they were called the sons of God".

Then in verse 27 we read: "And thus Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord; 
for Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generation; and he walked with God, 
as did also his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth".

The phrase "sons of God" appears earlier in Moses 7:1, where it says: "Behold, 
our father Adam taught these things, and many have believed and become the sons 
of God".

If Ham is described as one who "walked with God" and was called a "son of God", 
how do we reconcile that with Abraham 1:24, which states the curse was preserved 
in him?

Did he have some kind of visible sign associated with the curse?

[teddyaware]

4 hours ago, marineland said:

What do you make of this section.

Moses 8:13 says, "And Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed, 
and they were called the sons of God".

Then in verse 27 we read: "And thus Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord; 
for Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generation; and he walked with God, 
as did also his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth".

The phrase "sons of God" appears earlier in Moses 7:1, where it says: "Behold, 
our father Adam taught these things, and many have believed and become the sons 
of God".

If Ham is described as one who "walked with God" and was called a "son of God", 
how do we reconcile that with Abraham 1:24, which states the curse was preserved 
in him?

Did he have some kind of visible sign associated with the curse?

From the LDS Bible Dictionary

HAM

• See also Noah, Bible Patriarch

In the Old Testament, the third son of Noah (Gen. 5:32; 6:10; Moses 8:12, 27).

• Noah, his sons, and their families entered the ark, Gen. 7:13.

• Canaan, Ham’s son, was cursed, Gen. 9:18–25.

• The government of Ham was patriarchal and was blessed as to things of the earth and wisdom but not as to the priesthood, Abr. 1:21–27.

• Ham’s wife, Egyptus, was a descendant of Cain; the sons of their daughter Egyptus settled in Egypt, Abr. 1:23, 25 (Ps. 105:23; 106:21–22).

[The Nehor]

The old LDS explanation was that he married a black woman who bore the Mark and Curse of Cain. Thus he had the right to the Priesthood but his children did not.

The idea that the Mark of Cain was dark skin is a pretty recent one in Christianity as a whole. The justification for slavery for black people was argued to also be tied to the really weird scene in Genesis where Ham saw his naked father and then Noah curses Ham’s son for it. The idea that Ham married someone and preserved Cain’s curse was not unknown in Joseph Smith’s time. It is possible he copied this idea from them.

Joseph Smith weirdly blessed them with things of the Earth and wisdom whereas Noah states that they are good to be nothing but slaves and slaves of slaves.

The Genesis account was probably supposed to be part of the justification for the Israelite genocidal conquest of the promised land. I suspect that whomever was compiling Genesis had two accounts. In one Cainan was a son of Noah but in the other the three sons were different. The compiler put Ham in as the son but then needed to fit Cainan in to make the episode make some sense and put him in as Ham’s son without also revising the bit about Cainan serving his brothers (where he was not serving his uncles).

[marineland]

On 2/17/2026 at 9:29 PM, teddyaware said:

Ham’s wife, Egyptus, was a descendant of Cain

Where did you find that?

[teddyaware]

45 minutes ago, marineland said:

Where did you find that?

The Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price.

21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.

22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.

23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;

24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. (Abraham 1)

 

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

The Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.

22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.

23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;

24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. (Abraham 1)

 

Even if Canaan and Cain look and sound alike in English, not that way in Hebrew, not etymologically related, so you are going to need more to support your clam.  Too lazy to look up an academic source, so you are getting Quora:

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-an-etymological-relationship-between-Canaan-and-Cain

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

The Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.

22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.

23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;

24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. (Abraham 1)

 

That is not the etymological root of the Chaldean word for Egypt. Also if there was a global flood where did the Chaldeans who presumably used this language come from to have a name for someone only two generations from Noah. Also according to the Bible Canaan the son of Ham was the one cursed. Now Ham’s daughter Egyptus was somehow also cursed? What?