Pyreaux Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Satanic ritual abuse and murder claims are being pushed by groups like "We Are The People Utah" generally allege that high-level members of the LDS Church are involved in a "Deep Church" or "Secret Combination" that facilitates human trafficking or ritualistic abuse. Despite high-profile claims, there has been no credible, admissible evidence presented in court or by law enforcement that supports the existence of an organized SRA ring within the LDS Church, let alone the hierarchy. Recap of Tim Ballard Tim Ballard coined the term "Deep Church" to describe a supposed shadow network within the LDS Church that is working to destroy him. This mirrors many such people that often use conspiracy rhetoric to deflect from their personal legal troubles by framing themselves as a martyr targeted by a corrupt establishment. Why Tim Ballard was actually excommunicated and sued has nothing to do with his SRA conspiracies and everything to do with personal conduct. The primary lawsuits against Ballard involve several women who allege he used a "couples ruse" (pretending to be married while undercover) to groom and sexually assault them. Plaintiffs allege Tim Ballard used LDS scripture and claims of being sanctioned by priesthood authority to coerce them into sexual acts, telling them it was necessary for their mission to save children. We Are The People Utah and Tim Ballard "We Are The People Utah" often provides a platform for guests who claim that the Church's opposition to Ballard is proof of a cover-up. For years, Ballard touted his close ties to the Church to build his brand as a fighter against evil forces. When the Church finally scrutinized his methods and distanced itself, supporters pivoted to claiming the Church was "captured" by those evil forces. This is a classic circular logic used in conspiracy theories: if the Church supports him, it must be a good institute; when it opposed him, it must be in on it. When in late 2025, the Salt Lake County District Attorney declined to file criminal charges, citing "insufficient admissible evidence", Tim Ballard used this as "proof" of innocence and a conspiracy against him. In reality, the DA explicitly stated that declining to charge "does not mean that we disbelieve or diminish a survivor's account." It simply means the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard is incredibly high for events that occurred in foreign jurisdictions or private settings. The civil lawsuits, where the standard is the "preponderance of evidence", continues to move forward. We Are The People Utah and SRA The platform often ignores the specific, detailed testimony of women (many of them active LDS members) who have filed lawsuits against Tim Ballard. But frequently feature women who share "survivor" stories that center on Satanic ritual abuse, murder and repressed memories. These testimonies are gathered to be collectively used by the show to suggest a broader conspiracy involving religious and political leaders in Utah. Multiple episodes feature guests identified as "River," "Jessica," and "Jill" who claim to have survived generational ritual abuse. These guests often describe "confronting repressed memories" of childhood trauma and ritualistic violence involving politicians and religious figures. Some guests are affiliated with other platforms like the Deconstructing Darkness podcast, which focuses specifically on ritual trauma and the "healing" of repressed memories. Very similar to the women suing Ballard, these guests often speak about "spiritual manipulation" and "grooming". The women suing Tim Ballard, such as Celeste Borys and Amy Davis, allege recent, tangible incidents of sexual assault and harassment during "undercover" missions. Their claims are based on documented interactions, text messages, and employment history. However, the SRA testimonies featured often rely on recalled memories of events from decades ago. Satanic Panic and Alien Abductions Like the "Satanic Panic" of the 1980s, there is a lack of physical evidence or law enforcement corroboration for organized ritual sacrifice in Utah. The "Universal Witness" argument is found in the psychological phenomenon of Sociocultural Priming and the malleability of human memory. When people argue that "everyone is reporting gray bug-eyed aliens, gray bug-eyed aliens must be real," they are often overlooking how the media and hypnotic "recovery" sessions is what actually creates that consistency after the fact. The "Grey Alien" (small, grey, large black eyes) was not a universal report until it was popularized by the media. People aren't reporting the same thing because they saw it; they are reporting the same thing because pop culture gave them the visual vocabulary to describe their unknown experience (for something like sleep paralysis). The use of hypnosis or "memory regression" is a major red flag. The brain is a meaning-making machine. When a therapist asks, "What do you see?" the brain will often fill in the blanks with culturally available imagery to satisfy the question. Leading questions like, "Was the light bright?" or "Did the figures have large eyes?", the witness incorporates those details into their "memory." Once the memory is "recovered," the person experiences it as a 100% real event. During sleep paralysis, the body is paralyzed but the brain is awake. This often triggers a threat-detection response in the amygdala, leading to hallucinations of a presence in the room. Jill Butt Jill before she was 19, she was pregnant for 5 and a half years, had 7 children, and they were all sacrificed in front of her. She says the conspiracy went "all the way up to the 15", Apostles. She has what she calls "body memories", she doesn't actually have childhood memories. She has bodily episodes where she, convulses and felt like she gave birth 7 times. Which is evidence to her that she had given birth 7 times. Being pregnant for 5.5 years and having 7 children by age 19 is physiologically impossible under normal human biology. To have 7 children in 5.5 years would require a near-constant state of pregnancy and birth with no recovery time. No record of medical visits or physical evidence of these pregnancies. The "explanation" is usually that they were "covered up" by the cult, but this doesn't account for the physical toll on a teenager's body that would be visible to everyone. Jill describes Somatic Flashbacks, physical sensations like the feeling of giving birth and interprets them as "proof" that the event happened. Psychology recognizes that trauma survivors can experience "body memories" where the body reacts to stress or triggers with physical pain. However, the body cannot store factual data. If a person is told by a therapist or a "survivor" community that their unexplained abdominal pain is "actually" a memory of a hidden birth, the brain begins to interpret that pain through that lens. Over time, the person becomes convinced the event happened because the feeling is real, even if the event never occurred. Claiming the conspiracy goes "all the way to the 15", for decades, the LDS Apostles have lived highly public lives with security, constant schedules, and public appearances. The logistics of them participating in secret ritual sacrifices of seven children from one individual without a single shred of forensic evidence (dna, locations, disposal of remains) makes the claim statistically and practically impossible. 2
The Nehor Posted February 12 Posted February 12 This is just Pizzagate in a new costume and both are fueled by alt-right “deep state” quackery. And yeah, it comes from the Satanic Panic narratives. Recovered memories. Pseudoscience. Around 12,000 unsubstantiated claims. If you want a slightly deeper dive into the narrative of the Satanic Panic and the harm it caused this video is pretty good: One of the horrors of the whole thing is that the whole thing was absurd on its face if you thought about the accusations and narratives for about five minutes but it didn’t matter. It was telling people what they wanted to believe so they ignored the facts. It put the person in a thrilling battle between good and evil. It required very little to be on the side of good but you got the thrill of belonging to a cosmic war and as a bonus got to punch down at many marginalized people and weirdos which was a bonus to most of the participants. Utah was not immune and had its own version of the Satanic panic. Just like the more generalized one there was a therapist who was suddenly a gold mine of recovered memories using leading questions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic_(Utah) This led to an internal LDS church investigation and the Second Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric wrote up a memorandum. He is a little too credulous in my opinion and spends way too much time going on about Gadiantons. Also taking the talk of covens too much at face value. https://pscdocs.utah.gov/electric/17docs/1703562/298598FilComplaint612-19-2017.pdf Note that only the top portion of that is the memorandum Elder Pace submitted. The rest is commentary by others that is just speculation. Also some of it takes Jack Chick’s cult nonsense way too seriously. Jack Chick is the guy who writes those weird and overwrought Christian comic strips that are delightfully funny in their idiocy. I have done some reading on the Early Modern Period witch panic and this is a lot of the same stuff. Note this is not just the Salem witch trials which were at the tail end of the general panic. The witch hunts in Europe were much more conspiratorial. These kinds of panics involve a bunch of inverted religious ceremonies mixed with the most depraved things the listeners can think of. It is not done for any kind of benefit to the perpetrator except for its sheer vileness. In the Early Modern witch craze the witches were supposedly carried off in supernatural flight to secret ceremonies. These often occurred in synagogues (because anti-semitism has to fit in somewhere) and the witches then had incestuous orgies with the devil and other demons. There was a lot of literal butt kissing and other acts viewed as degrading. Also child murder and forced miscarriages and other craziness. In the anti-Semitic moral panic it took the Jewish passover and made it a literal blood feast on Christian babies. In the LDS panic it was unbaptizing children by baptizing them in blood, human sacrifice, and an infernal mockery of temple ordinances designed to initiate one as a child of perdition along with a lot of sexual abuse. In the QAnon panic it was initiation into a pedophile cult of silence and using the blood of children to provide health to the practitioners. All moral panics make it harder to fight real abuse of the vulnerable. People abuse children all the time. Physically, emotionally, and sexually. Throwing in non-existent cults or satanic rites to make it seem worse doesn’t help anyone and just sensationalizes everything and makes it that much easier for actual abusers to hide. In the Pace Memorandum commentary at the end I laughed at them trying to tie the whole thing to Aleister Crowley and a bunch of other occultists. There are enough conspiracies in the world without having to invent more dramatic ones. 2
JVW Posted February 13 Posted February 13 How do you see this in light of the latest Epstein file drops? This article is a great one connecting a few dots (from some old news to the recent Epstein file drops) to pretty much every keyword @The Nehor mentioned above, all of the "debunked" stuff that falls right in line with a lot of the OP. https://substack.com/inbox/post/186994547 I'd quote the article here but half of it is screenshots. I promise you'll like reading it. @Pyreaux said, "This mirrors many such people that often use conspiracy rhetoric to deflect from their personal legal troubles by framing themselves as a martyr targeted by a corrupt establishment." Does this really happen a lot? I'm not familiar with people doing this except for maybe Trump? Have other presidents or powerful political or social figures used this tactic before? Does it stretch back throughout history, or is it a recent tactic? As far as LDS specific SRA allegations the only thing I've seen is an obscure site where a member accused President Monson of stuff. His wife wrote a blog showing her support. I don't believe his wife. I don't discount what the guy wrote, but I don't believe his accusations against Monson. I know public figures lie, but any time I watch President Monson speak he strikes me as a genuinely happy and holy man. Call me crazy. I can dig up a link if anyone is interested in reading his written testimony.
Calm Posted February 14 Posted February 14 (edited) I am not impressed with the article. Quote Why would the media jump straight to conspiracy theories if the stories weren’t pre-written? Wouldn’t they be allegations, accusations, claims, charges, or even illicit, outrageous insinuations? Because the claims were extreme…Wayfair trafficking missing kids as high priced cabinets. Have any of the missing kids claimed to be named been found, btw? Would be interesting to know their actual circumstances. added: Quote Samara’s parents never realized that nearly all the other “missing” kids who were named in the viral posts about Wayfair weren’t actually missing. Quote Quote In May, Samara had stuffed a box of Frosted Flakes into her sparkly backpack, slipped out the door and run away. She had just needed a break from it all, you know? It was terrifying for her parents, Samara understood that now. The search parties, the police alerts, the missing posters. They found her after two days, and ever since, everything in Samara’s life was about “rebuilding trust” and “taking responsibility.” All she wanted was for her parents to see that she was fine, and they didn’t need to be so worried. On this afternoon in July, she felt perfectly safe. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/interactive/2021/wayfair-qanon-sex-trafficking-conspiracy/ (use “show reader” for easier reading) Such claims are not without very troubling consequences. Quote An Internet mob wanted to rescue a 13-year-old girl. Instead, they terrified her, derailed real trafficking investigations and incited ‘save the children’ violence. JVW, I know you want to do the right thing. You really need to stop this as it will perpetuate the harm this conspiracy caused those kids. Edited February 14 by Calm
The Nehor Posted February 14 Posted February 14 18 hours ago, JVW said: How do you see this in light of the latest Epstein file drops? This article is a great one connecting a few dots (from some old news to the recent Epstein file drops) to pretty much every keyword @The Nehor mentioned above, all of the "debunked" stuff that falls right in line with a lot of the OP. https://substack.com/inbox/post/186994547 I'd quote the article here but half of it is screenshots. I promise you'll like reading it. “There is a cabal of satanic pedophiles abusing children.” ”There are pedophiles abusing children.” The second is true and has pretty much always been true. The first is not true. We shouldn’t give credit to those saying the first sentence because part of it are correct when everyone knew those parts are correct. They didn’t add anything to actively fighting pedophilia. In fact they distracted from it with their false claims. 18 hours ago, JVW said: @Pyreaux said, "This mirrors many such people that often use conspiracy rhetoric to deflect from their personal legal troubles by framing themselves as a martyr targeted by a corrupt establishment." Does this really happen a lot? I'm not familiar with people doing this except for maybe Trump? Have other presidents or powerful political or social figures used this tactic before? Does it stretch back throughout history, or is it a recent tactic? Hitler claiming the corrupt Jews were controlling everything and only he could stop them. Netanyahu claims that there is a conspiracy behind all of his own legal troubles. There are still conspiracy theories about a cabal within the government that manufactured Watergate to bring down Nixon. 18 hours ago, JVW said: As far as LDS specific SRA allegations the only thing I've seen is an obscure site where a member accused President Monson of stuff. His wife wrote a blog showing her support. I don't believe his wife. I don't discount what the guy wrote, but I don't believe his accusations against Monson. I know public figures lie, but any time I watch President Monson speak he strikes me as a genuinely happy and holy man. Call me crazy. I can dig up a link if anyone is interested in reading his written testimony. Claims like this require evidence. I very much doubt there is anything to this. 1
Tacenda Posted February 15 Posted February 15 I've been reading statements from a few child stars who came out in favor of Michael Jackson not being a pedophile. But that he was more trying to protect them from the pedos/child murderers out there that has been mention in the Epstein files. All I can say is nothing surprises me anymore. 1
Pyreaux Posted February 15 Author Posted February 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: I've been reading statements from a few child stars who came out in favor of Michael Jackson not being a pedophile. But that he was more trying to protect them from the pedos/child murderers out there that has been mention in the Epstein files. All I can say is nothing surprises me anymore. You see the last phone call Michael Jackson made? It was to his manager. Sounds like he feared a non-government "They" were going to silenced him. Edited February 15 by Pyreaux
Tacenda Posted February 15 Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Pyreaux said: You see the last phone call Michael Jackson made? It was to his manager. Sounds like he feared a non-government "They" were going to silenced him. 🤐😭
Tacenda Posted February 15 Posted February 15 (edited) I've been watching the first video and I have a lot of questions. One is how did she have seven children before her marriage at 20 to her husband? I haven't finished the video so maybe it will get explained. The only conclusion could be that she had children at puberty?? Nevermind, I just found out, that they are angel babies. But I'll continue on to watching the rest. EDITED: Nevermind, a second time, the more I watch, she physically had seven children during the time she started puberty to whenever, however seven children can be born and murdered before she got married. It seems so bizarre to me. I want to believe her and her family though, so I will say I choose to believe. Edited February 15 by Tacenda 1
Pyreaux Posted February 17 Author Posted February 17 On 2/15/2026 at 2:40 PM, Tacenda said: I've been watching the first video and I have a lot of questions. One is how did she have seven children before her marriage at 20 to her husband? I haven't finished the video so maybe it will get explained. The only conclusion could be that she had children at puberty?? Nevermind, I just found out, that they are angel babies. But I'll continue on to watching the rest. EDITED: Nevermind, a second time, the more I watch, she physically had seven children during the time she started puberty to whenever, however seven children can be born and murdered before she got married. It seems so bizarre to me. I want to believe her and her family though, so I will say I choose to believe. According to hearsay of someone claiming to have reached out to her family, her siblings, like in many of these stories, want to believe "something" probably happened to her, but unfortunately the reality is now buried under a layer of things that don't seem possible to separate now. She has siblings who have memories at the time but don't remember seeing her pregnant. They also say she's a diagnosed Paranoid Schizophrenic, but that doesn't mean nothing happened. On 2/15/2026 at 12:06 PM, Tacenda said: 🤐😭 Ah, the Algorithm clickbaited me, it's a good video but the title made me think MJ's son was dead of something... He's fine. https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/the-tragedy-of-michael-jackson-s-son-prince-is-so-sad/vi-AA1NFlqm
Tacenda Posted February 18 Posted February 18 Maybe it's what I watch on YouTube, but there are such horrific things I'm learning about from things popping up. I want to go back to being unaware of these things. The abuse is rampant. It's world wide, and it's the entitled billionaires that want to do whatever fantasy they have. Even going on hunts, of human beings. I best not say too much because it's so evil, and I'm just learning of these things. I think there is something on the horizon. But I hope all of us blow it all down, expose everything and hang every one of them like the old days. 1
The Nehor Posted March 13 Posted March 13 (edited) On 2/18/2026 at 3:07 PM, Tacenda said: Maybe it's what I watch on YouTube, but there are such horrific things I'm learning about from things popping up. I want to go back to being unaware of these things. The abuse is rampant. It's world wide, and it's the entitled billionaires that want to do whatever fantasy they have. Even going on hunts, of human beings. I best not say too much because it's so evil, and I'm just learning of these things. I think there is something on the horizon. But I hope all of us blow it all down, expose everything and hang every one of them like the old days. The human being hunts are mostly old legends and beliefs in weird movies and TV shows. I haven’t seen anything credible backing this up. Edited March 15 by The Nehor 2
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