The true reason why you left the church?

[ave maria]

Sorry to derail (re-rail?) the discussion away from some fantastic notion of apostolic succession, and whether God really cares about such things, but here's my response to Brentley.

It is just another of Ave Maria's never ending lines that she can never substantiate. The board is littered with her imperial claims and complete and total lack of evidence.

Pretty pathetic that someone can base their belief in "apostolic authority" when they are completely unable to come up with even one name in that succession.

You're losing it, juliann.

[charity]

AVe, out of Chrisitan goodness, to save poor Juliann's sanity, why don't you humor her and give the list?

[ave maria]

AVe, out of Chrisitan goodness, to save poor Juliann's sanity, why don't you humor her and give the list?

Because she's using it as a diversionary tactic, and it's irrelevant to her argument.

If her sanity is that fragile, someone closer to her needs to get her some help.

[Abulafia]

AVe, out of Chrisitan goodness, to save poor Juliann's sanity, why don't you humor her and give the list?

Because she's using it as a diversionary tactic, and it's irrelevant to her argument.

If her sanity is that fragile, someone closer to her needs to get her some help.

Wouldn't it be great if we could all meet up with Juliann, I bet under that tough exterior, there is a really lovely person!! What say you Juliann (Now don't you go thinking the worst of me Juliann, I am not being fascetious..)

[mb20]

In this thread I am trying to find the true reason why you first left and then maybe after you answer a truthful answer you can explain your experience after leaving and why you stayed gone. Please do not take offense to this. I am just trying to understand and am sharing with you what I have understood so far. Correct me if I

[Bertram]

mb20,

I am very sorry to read of your mental anguish in trying to reconcile your understanding of the LDS Church's Leadership in guiding God's Church on this Earth and the obvious conflict in your life with your Sexual situation.

I have quoted already on this Board of Members within my Family Circle who are also living in your same predicament. They have been treated with the greatest of respect and at all times shown wonderful Love!

For you to say...."not once has the church stood on the side of equality and fairness"...is surely stretching even my imagination!

I wonder where you "suddenly" heard and came to know such "failings" within the LDS Church?

I personally feel that your feeling of inadeqacy and "suddenly" discovering such things are really incomprehensible!

I do not know what age you are but if you never heard of these vile and false accusations by ANTIS and BIGOTS before then with all due respect you really have not been very active in Studying God's Word.

Constantly I read on the Board of the vicious campaigns of BACs and EVs in your neck of the woods peddling filth against God's Church AND YOU NEVER HAVE?

Even in my little backwater I have been aware of these vicarious antichrists?!?!

Are you not really using the Church to cover your inadequacy of God's great purpose for us ALL?

mb20, please read the Scriptures and pray for guidance of an understanding of the purpose of God;s Great Plan of Salvation!

[starhy]

I left the church once and for all with a confirmation from GOD that it was the right thing to do. Do I think that people who are in the church are wrong for being in it? No. If it is something that brings happiness and fullfillment into your life then stay. The only problem I personally have with the church are the claims that it is the "only true church on the face of the earth". That is not true.

[Bertram]

juliann,

Methinks you have hit a raw bone!

A sign of the Board is when you pose a serious and vital question....out come the "snideaside"!

Never followed by an answer!......until now?....maybe?

I wonder what the REAL reason could be?

Knowing the associated dates of "personal apostacy" could help!

[docrick]

I left the church once and for all with a confirmation from GOD that it was the right thing to do. Do I think that people who are in the church are wrong for being in it? No. If it is something that brings happiness and fullfillment into your life then stay. The only problem I personally have with the church are the claims that it is the "only true church on the face of the earth". That is not true.

It is the only Church on the earth that possesses all of the Gospel that has thusfar been revealed. That is true.

It is the only Church on earth that is organized as Christ organized the primitive Church with Apostles and Prophets, that is true.

Surely other Churches possess much truth just NONE of them possess all of the truth as does the LDS Church.

Those are the facts and I'm sticking to them.

[starhy]

Docrick...

That is YOUR choice. They don't call it free will for nothing.

[docrick]

Docrick...

That is YOUR choice. They don't call it free will for nothing.

Free will for sure. As imperfect people the Lord surely gives us the right to be wrong.

I labor frequently as a Church leader to bring the Gospel to those who do not have it; I want them to have the same blessings I have.

What is so sad is those who at one time embraced the Gospel of Jesus Christ and have turned (willingly with "free will") away from it.

I love the license plate frame that reads "if you are living like there is no God, you better be right"

Even more apropos would be, "if you have left the LDS Church for a different faith, you better be right."

My basic tenet with regard to religion is that if you were EVER blessed with a testimony of the restored Gospel there can be NOTHING that breaks that testimony.

Too many folks on this board have left because they found some reason like polygamy, views on homosexuality, historocity of the BofM etc as being troublesome.

These are absolute non issues. If you once had a witness of the truthfulness of the restored Gospel and let these true non issues turn you away from the faith then you deny the power of your inital witness.

Shoot look at all the mayhem in the Old Testament the Lord Himself wrought on people. Destroying many. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah; that was certainly politically correct.

"I the Lord have said what I have said and I excuse not myself, though the heavens and the earth pass away my word shall not pass away but shall all be fulfilled...."

The Lord really could care less what we think about principles He has revealed and proffered (i.e. polygamy)

[starhy]

I don't believe the same way you do anymore (yes at one time I was as TBM as they come), so all I can say to your post is that if it makes you happy great.

I have no fear. It's a wonderful thing.

[docrick]

I don't believe the same way you do anymore (yes at one time I was as TBM as they come), so all I can say to your post is that if it makes you happy great.

I have no fear. It's a wonderful thing.

Good luck

[mb20]

mb20,

I am very sorry to read of your mental anguish in trying to reconcile your understanding of the LDS Church's Leadership in guiding God's Church on this Earth and the obvious conflict in your life with your Sexual situation.

I have quoted already on this Board of Members within my Family Circle who are also living in your same predicament. They have been treated with the greatest of respect and at all times shown wonderful Love!

For you to say...."not once has the church stood on the side of equality and fairness"...is surely stretching even my imagination!

I wonder where you "suddenly" heard and came to know such "failings" within the LDS Church?

I personally feel that your feeling of inadeqacy and "suddenly" discovering such things are really incomprehensible!

I do not know what age you are but if you never heard of these vile and false accusations by ANTIS and BIGOTS before then with all due respect you really have not been very active in Studying God's Word.

Constantly I read on the Board of the vicious campaigns of BACs and EVs in your neck of the woods peddling filth against God's Church AND YOU NEVER HAVE?

Even in my little backwater I have been aware of these vicarious antichrists?!?!

Are you not really using the Church to cover your inadequacy of God's great purpose for us ALL?

mb20, please read the Scriptures and pray for guidance of an understanding of the purpose of God;s Great Plan of Salvation!

bertram,

Try doing a little research before you open your mouth. Seriously, take a look at where the church stood on segregation. Take a look at where the church stood on women's voting rights. You just proved my point. Mormons take emotion over the facts.

[cacheman]

Try doing a little research before you open your mouth. Seriously, take a look at where the church stood on segregation. Take a look at where the church stood on women's voting rights. You just proved my point. Mormons take emotion over the facts.

Was the LDS church against women's voting rights? Wasn't the state of Utah the second state in the US to give the right to vote to women? You got to give credit where credit is due.

cacheman

[mb20]

Try doing a little research before you open your mouth. Seriously, take a look at where the church stood on segregation. Take a look at where the church stood on women's voting rights. You just proved my point. Mormons take emotion over the facts.

Was the LDS church against women's voting rights? Wasn't the state of Utah the second state in the US to give the right to vote to women? You got to give credit where credit is due.

cacheman

Do a little research into the Equal Rights Act. The Mormon church was the leading opponent for equal rights for women. Yes, give credit where credit is due. The Mormon deserves every bit of its racist and sexist reputation.

http://www.now.org/issues/economic/cea/history.html

May 1980: Legislators from Idaho, Arizona and Washington state file suit in federal court challenging the constitutionality of the ERA extension and seeking to validate a state's power to rescind a prior ratification. The case is assigned to Judge Marion Callister, who at the time the litigation began (and 6 months after) held a high office (Regional Representative) in the hierarchy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly known as the Mormon Church. The Church officially and actively opposes the ERA and the ERA extension and supports rescission.

[mb20]

Another great article. Read the whole thing, but pay close attention to the section called: Utah Mormon Discrimination against Blacks.

http://www.affirmation.org/learning/prelud...p?Printer=true&

The Mormon church deserves a lot of credit...for being one of the worst offenders to human rights and human liberties. Even Hitler would be impressed.

[docrick]

Try doing a little research before you open your mouth. Seriously, take a look at where the church stood on segregation. Take a look at where the church stood on women's voting rights. You just proved my point. Mormons take emotion over the facts.

Was the LDS church against women's voting rights? Wasn't the state of Utah the second state in the US to give the right to vote to women? You got to give credit where credit is due.

cacheman

Do a little research into the Equal Rights Act. The Mormon church was the leading opponent for equal rights for women. Yes, give credit where credit is due. The Mormon deserves every bit of its racist and sexist reputation.

http://www.now.org/issues/economic/cea/history.html

May 1980: Legislators from Idaho, Arizona and Washington state file suit in federal court challenging the constitutionality of the ERA extension and seeking to validate a state's power to rescind a prior ratification. The case is assigned to Judge Marion Callister, who at the time the litigation began (and 6 months after) held a high office (Regional Representative) in the hierarchy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly known as the Mormon Church. The Church officially and actively opposes the ERA and the ERA extension and supports rescission.

I still think the ERA is bad. The Church was right.

I think having women on the front lines in battle is abhorrent.

There are other aspects of the ERA, I don't have the amendment in front of me to quote it that I didn't agree with either.

You seem to want to equate you political views and political correctness with the will of God.

They are not one in the same.

For example, I'll bet the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah were happy and content with their lifestyle. I'm sure it was politically correct there.

Do I need to remind you what the Lord thought?

[cacheman]

Do a little research into the Equal Rights Act. The Mormon church was the leading opponent for equal rights for women. Yes, give credit where credit is due. The Mormon deserves every bit of its racist and sexist reputation.

http://www.now.org/issues/economic/cea/history.html

May 1980: Legislators from Idaho, Arizona and Washington state file suit in federal court challenging the constitutionality of the ERA extension and seeking to validate a state's power to rescind a prior ratification. The case is assigned to Judge Marion Callister, who at the time the litigation began (and 6 months after) held a high office (Regional Representative) in the hierarchy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly known as the Mormon Church. The Church officially and actively opposes the ERA and the ERA extension and supports rescission.

Sorry, I thought you said something about women's voting rights?

I am fully aware of the opposition to the ERA, and of the denial of blacks to the prietshood, and the discrimination against homosexuals. No arguments there.

But blanket accusations and generalizations don't get us much of anywhere. Would you agree?

cacheman

[Bertram]

mb20,

So you left an "abusive" church and that improved you and made you a better person?

You really have fooled me!

And here was little me extending the feelings of my heart to you and "the sorrowful down-trodden snake" (thanks)fangs me!

Boy how I have been deceived!

And all along you lied to me: you had all this vile untruthful lies all the time!

Well I am not surprised as I always believed that those EXs on this Board have a menal anguish problem and instead of quietly cutting their connections they can only attempt to salve their sad consciences with unadulterated tripe!

Sadly by your own admissions you fit the MO!

I will continue to Pray for you!

THE 4-FINGER RULE IS OPERATIVE!

[Bertram]

mb20,

Did you by any chance hazard a suggestion which church you are now alligned with?

Apologies if I happen to have missed that announcement!

[Sput]

Another great article. Read the whole thing, but pay close attention to the section called: Utah Mormon Discrimination against Blacks.

http://www.affirmation.org/learning/prelud...p?Printer=true&

The Mormon church deserves a lot of credit...for being one of the worst offenders to human rights and human liberties. Even Hitler would be impressed.

Umm during the inquistion you would get burned as a heretic for a mole your back. So ummm i think there are far worse examples of human right offenders and human liberties out there.

[docrick]

Another great article. Read the whole thing, but pay close attention to the section called: Utah Mormon Discrimination against Blacks.

http://www.affirmation.org/learning/prelud...p?Printer=true&

The Mormon church deserves a lot of credit...for being one of the worst offenders to human rights and human liberties. Even Hitler would be impressed.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I supposed to be moved by an article written by a homosexual arguing for same sex marriage and being opposed to the mormon church.

Come on now.

I grew up a Southern Baptist. I laugh all the time about "so called Christians" who "try out" a congregation to see if they like what the pastor is preaching. Many people go from Church to Church until they find someone willing to pander to the way they would like the gospel to be.

What a Joke!!

Look homosexual relations are abhorrent to the Lord, it is Sin just as adultery is sin.

If you have homosexual tendencies just don't act on them.

Look it is quite unnatural for a man to have relations with only one woman but that is the commandment so we live it.

The rules are the same for everyone.

If you feel good about finding a Church that lets you think it is preaching the Gospel because it panders to sin fine. Have a good life.

[ryanw]

It is like a divorce. If you and your husband/wife decide to get divorced over a little reason or those who are in love a pretty big reason you try and find more and more reasons that you want to leave so that you can build up a dead wall so that you will never return. You want to make sure your right because you could never leave with a soft heart if you are wrong. So that why so many people bring up everything they can to put against their husband/wife when getting a divorce when really it would work a whole lot more effectively if they just listened.

Such as for the church. I believe that many of you here would still be strong in the church today if you just would have listened. Some of you try to prove that what you have felt was fake. It is the same with married couples who want a divorce, it makes them feel that they can understand it more and gives them a better feeling to leave, they want to hide away what they have lost.

I felt like the church was a little cultish after going through the temple. To be honest, if the church did not have the temple or it's ceremonies, I would still be a strong member today. If I had not disliked the temple ceremonies, I would not have delved into church history to find out more about the significance of its meaning. If I would have not read up on church history to the great length that I did, I would not have read about the things that bother me so much about the church's past.

I was also a former athiest turned LDS. After leaving, I decided that I am truly more comfortable and happy swearing once in a while if I feel like it or having a drink or two here and there, and just plain being myself. Going from one end of the spectrum to another was too hard.

Now as for the comparison of leaving the church to getting divorced, I am going to have to disagree and say that they are not the same. I admit that I had feelings that I believed to have come from a higher power. I don't claim that I made them up. I could have, or they could have really come from god. I don't know. Wherever they came from, I am happier with life now than I was in the church. But when you get divorced, most people do not say that they were never in love. they are just out of love and cannot reconcile those feelings and it would be better off if the two involved parted ways. Maybe that's not the angle that you were going for or maybe it's already been discussed (I just started reading this topic and did not even get through it before I wanted to post), but that's what I think.

Either way, I'm happier now and look forward to raising my son in a home that is not bound by religious repression, yet still holds hard work, honesty, and family to be of the utmost importance.

[docrick]

It is like a divorce. If you and your husband/wife decide to get divorced over a little reason or those who are in love a pretty big reason you try and find more and more reasons that you want to leave so that you can build up a dead wall so that you will never return. You want to make sure your right because you could never leave with a soft heart if you are wrong. So that why so many people bring up everything they can to put against their husband/wife when getting a divorce when really it would work a whole lot more effectively if they just listened.

Such as for the church. I believe that many of you here would still be strong in the church today if you just would have listened. Some of you try to prove that what you have felt was fake. It is the same with married couples who want a divorce, it makes them feel that they can understand it more and gives them a better feeling to leave, they want to hide away what they have lost.

I felt like the church was a little cultish after going through the temple. To be honest, if the church did not have the temple or it's ceremonies, I would still be a strong member today. If I had not disliked the temple ceremonies, I would not have delved into church history to find out more about the significance of its meaning. If I would have not read up on church history to the great length that I did, I would not have read about the things that bother me so much about the church's past.

I was also a former athiest turned LDS. After leaving, I decided that I am truly more comfortable and happy swearing once in a while if I feel like it or having a drink or two here and there, and just plain being myself. Going from one end of the spectrum to another was too hard.

Now as for the comparison of leaving the church to getting divorced, I am going to have to disagree and say that they are not the same. I admit that I had feelings that I believed to have come from a higher power. I don't claim that I made them up. I could have, or they could have really come from god. I don't know. Wherever they came from, I am happier with life now than I was in the church. But when you get divorced, most people do not say that they were never in love. they are just out of love and cannot reconcile those feelings and it would be better off if the two involved parted ways. Maybe that's not the angle that you were going for or maybe it's already been discussed (I just started reading this topic and did not even get through it before I wanted to post), but that's what I think.

Either way, I'm happier now and look forward to raising my son in a home that is not bound by religious repression, yet still holds hard work, honesty, and family to be of the utmost importance.

Amazing you don't like the Temple so you go into apostacy?

Think of Abraham when he was asked to sacrifice Issiac. I'll bet he didn't like that commandment.

Many are called yet few are chosen.

I'm sad you're son will not get the opportunity to hear the Gospel from his father. You made it all the way to the Temple and left the Church.

Makes me want to cry.

I'm certain the Savior has shed tears over your decision.