Calm

Understanding I am clueless when talking about sports, could you be explicit then why you think there is the animosity against BYU from multiple schools in the Big 12? And this is one area of possible apologetics I have ignored except for what has been written on the board and I don’t remembering this being covered though animosity in sports has been mentioned.

It’s awful…. Try this if you are certain it’s a general conference talk… https://www.lds-general-conference.org

They use stories for multiple talks. Maybe this one…nope…

I heard that as a joke like bluebell did and probably didn’t pick up on it then if I read it (June 76 I was rushing off to BYU, missed my high school graduation even, thinking I wouldn’t be reading the Ensign if it came before I was out the door and wouldn’t go to the Lee Library to read it once I got to Provo), but might these days have also gone to how the writer of the letter might have heard it and squirmed without your pointing it out first. So yes, it could come across as gentle teasing, but given the circumstances there is a risk of the man feeling his efforts were being trivialized, feel humiliated in front of millions, etc. It would be very different coming from a friend. And maybe Pres Hinckley thought of everyone as a friend, but we should be aware that others can be sensitive in ways we wouldn’t think,of as important and pay attention to them anyway out of love imo. The “pathetic letter” hit me in the same way I think as you when I was hearing him say it (chances are I never heard it before as my parents never listened to conference, but read it so we kids never did either except on rare occasions—and then only the one session as that was all that was available—and I have generally read conference talks rather than listened due to my inability to sit for very long without my hands being occupied and feeling that wasn’t great for conference because I wouldn’t give it full attention). Reading it doesn’t hit me the same way as my mind plays with words while reading, more likely to think of different meanings like zealous brings up (settling on “the letter was full of pathos”) and I think that softened it for me because when I then listened to it, I had an unexpected strong reaction to “pathetic”. When I was around 9 or 10, I once told my mom about a former friend being a bully to me and I said proudly I didn’t hate them (thinking of love your enemies and all, I pitied them and boy, did she lay into me in her quiet, loving way for diminishing a fellow human being. What matter to me most was I could tell I had shocked her. It truly bothered her I would view someone else in that manner. So I tend to react strongly to condescension, etc. For some reason it was the condescending label that dominated when I listened, but not when I read it. Maybe the rhythm of the delivery vs the rhythm of my reading?

So you think the PAC 12 is an antimormon Christian vibe? Fundamentalist Evangelical or something else?

You okay if I (or someone else who is less distractable) add the links bsjkki put up for the victims of the shooter here or would you prefer a separate thread (I am bad at making decisions today lol)? Not sure if you want a discussion with this (needs its own thread) or want to publicize it (could share, but maybe not…title should be changed to include both maybe if so…)

Thank you! Got distracted before I should have, meant to go looking for them several times.

Did they just blow up the package or did they confirm it was an explosive?

Do their leaders travel a lot to give talks? Just curious. Not making a point. I know very little about the faith.

I don’t watch sports and only follow by other people mentioning something (missing Garden Girl, she often gave me a conversation starter with my husband, lol), so am clueless about how sports fans usually act outside of knowing soccer (the true football) fans can be lethal worldwide (common story plot for the international police procedurals I watch these days). Is BYU the only school that receives this type of treatment from multiple schools (not interested in one on one traditional rivalries) or are there other schools that get this treatment or is it even pretty ubiquitous, the difference with BYU is bringing religion into it due to being a religious school?

And this means the school just won’t let it happen again and apologize afterwards. They can find the people doing it while they are still at the game chanting away or otherwise being too much of a jerk.

I have gotten very frustrated at times when a church statement is more generic than I would prefer. I too wish there was a separate message from Pres Oaks for Pres Nelson, when we should be focused on celebrating his life while the horror of the shooting takes us in a very different direction and would be better separate as it needs a different direction of counseling (death and losing loved ones is definitely not one size fits all). Grateful to see a separate message from the Church about the shooting and of course there are many announcements specifically about Pres. Nelson. But something specifically from Pres Oaks given it’s in a transtion period….maybe that’s needed. I wonder how much time would be required if the President of the Church responded to this level of tragedy for every region around the world. The US is often violent plus there are plenty of other tragedies here, but there are also countries with more numerous tragedies. Then there is the political issues. Having lived in Russia for a short time 30 years ago and having therefore paid closer attention to it over the years, I don’t think members would be helped by increased public announcements even if simply consoling victims and families and not laying blame. Of course, this was a bit more personal…church members targeted for being church members and much less common. If there is concern about helping our global members feel a part of things, then I would prefer giving equal time in specific announcements ending with a more global tone. I know they have newsrooms for other parts of the world and they are good at coordinating, so it seems possible though would commit more time of top leaders to public speaking…but they are doing that already with social media inspirational notes. This could help members feel like they are getting (as a region) more personal attention from apostles and the First Presidency. I remember being in Canada and not hearing very much at all from SL about things important to Canadian members like in the US. Given the numbers of church members and the networking and culture, members can influence government policy, etc a lot more in the US than in most other places and it can help avoid less than friendly attention from less welcoming governments, but there may be the unintentional consequence of nonUS members feeling they don’t matter as much. Still it seems like sawing off the branch you are sitting on*** to consider leaving the Church over it. If it’s an error, it’s the leader’s error, why make it a personal burden and lose out on the blessings of membership? ***thought a different idiom than the one originally used would be better and this actually fits better to what I mean

https://www.ksl.com/article/51383254/colorado-fined-reprimanded-for-inappropriate-chants-against-byu Rival fans have been vulgarly aggressive against BYU for a long time. Glad something significant has been done (might have been done before and I can’t remember). Hopefully this will cause fans to reconsider, knowing they are likely to hurt their own teams more than BYU. PS: changed title to give more info and remove error as it was Saturday, not Monday (my husband shared the info with me and is a bit under the weather and I can’t remember never track time)

My husband just passed this on to me with a big grin (my husband is about the sweetest and most gentle soul I know). He is also a big sports fan, though some of his diehard support has been shifted to UVU from BYU due to knowing the coaches and players better now after two decades as a professor there and now one of bus drivers for the teams….plus the cost of tickets and the hassle of parking these days. https://www.ksl.com/article/51383254/colorado-fined-reprimanded-for-inappropriate-chants-against-byu I think I will start a new thread, though thought it was relevant to this subtopic.

Good, it deserves its own thread.

No, just me struggling to understand today. I don’t do deception as that would defeat my whole purpose of posting…or living for that matter since deception increases confusion, not knowledge. If you ever feel I am trying to play mind games with you or otherwise be deceptive, please try to remember my brain just works differently than many due to nature and training and these days doesn’t always process things that well without a lot of time (I often have to tell people to repeat things when talking to me because I hear them but can’t identify the words…Fibro and age make life much more complicated).

I thought your point was we have no backbone, not that we are perceived as not having a backbone… Since the Church does not always backdown (temple plans, for example) I don’t see that as a correct assumption for the Church as an organization. We are taught to forgive and love others and sometimes that does translate to being too nice, imo….such as making excuses for a person who has been known to have child porn to be allowed around children or being advised not to pursue another member for fraud charges (both cases I have heard about from people I know well). I can see why some might interpret this behaviour as having no backbone, though to me it is more about fearing harming others’ faith journey, wanting to be supportive of the repentant (while being a bit too trusting that they are repentant). So I guess I would say we can be too trusting and too supportive sometimes of people who don’t deserve it….or rather shouldn’t be given if for their own good and others.

No, you are right. My bad, I knew it was a Christian site, but it’s been awhile since I visited and I mostly view their LDS articles so that “Bee” in its name always has me going to LDS (I used to work at a Beehive Books for one thing). It is still a satire and is about perception and not reality, so not sure what your point is in using it.

I am assuming you are using babylonbee, which is the LDS (oops, Christian) version of The Onion, a satire site, as showing how we are seen by ourselves and others as opposed to actual evidence…always love an excuse to read the Babylon. And I think it would be delightful if this actually happened. Who doesn’t love enchiladas and no one deserves them more than the bomb squad, imo (my husband’s mother was famous for her enchilada casserole).

Wow, when I looked just a bit ago, it was 38,000$. So glad to see this.

This is brilliant, helping the innocent child and family of the shooter. It says the link is below in the description, but there is no description. Can you see the link and share it, please? added: found in comments… https://www.givesendgo.com/helptheSanfordfamily

When have you seen members backing down or the Church (thinking of temple controversies where the ‘you are not being a good neighbor is often used without stopping the Church from getting its priorities met even if they adapt up to a certain reasonable point)? Serious question, not challenging, trying to understand your view.

In what way? I don’t see our efforts to care for others lacking in backbone. In fact, it can take courage to reach out and try and work with those who don’t like you.

Or we are following the admonition of Christ to live our neighbors. How could you tell the difference, I wonder?

I much prefer this position for us rather than the most liked by others while not liking the others the most. I am very, very proud of my community that we have kept the capacity to like and love others not believing like us (generally speaking) even when they have not returned the same attitude.