Teancum

Science does not try to disprove God. But religion certainly fails to prove that God exists. It always boils down to faith, some metaphysical testimony gaining experience, it is a mystery and so on and so on.

It really does not matter whether they share methodologies or not does it. From whatever acceptable methods they used, they arrived at similar conclusions did they not?

I saw that Ehrmann video. It was quite amusing.

This is spot on.

Well I am not Ex-Mormon since I am still a member but as you know I do not participate. So I will answer. Why do you think evangelicals struggle to understand Mormon and ex-Mormon minds? I would say in my experience they miss a number of issues. First, any active LDS person like myself, who becomes disaffected, is rather shell shocked. We put our trust in a religion with truth claims that when they fell apart, it makes us very cautious and distrusting. Next, for many of us, and I am one, we did explore other religious options. But for me, as I drilled into Christianity in general, and a variety of sects, when I used the same methodology that I applied to examine Mormonism, these tend to fall apart as well. Also, for me, if I am going to spend time devoted to a Christian tradition, I think Mormonism beats the others hands down. Next to that, I think Catholicism is the next best. I do meet with a Presbyterian Minister periodically. He is the minister of the church my step mother attended. My dad met with this man periodically because he loved arguing religion. As and adult he was not active in the LDS Church. But he knew the doctrine and history better than most. The last five years of his life he did start attending church, paying tithing, had a calling coordinating church cleaning schedules and he wanted to be ordained an Elder. Somehow his bishop and SP approved and I ordained him a couple years before he died. I was sort of mentally out at the time but it was important for me to do that for him. I still had a temple recommend at the time so I did do it for him. It was a special experience for both of us. I know I was a doubter at the time but if the Church is what it claims, I think Heavenly Father will honor the ordination. Has a Christian ever tried to “convert” you after you left Mormonism? How did it go? Yes. The minster I mentioned above. After my dad died I spent a lot of time in Denver where he and my step mom lived. I was helping her with a variety of issues. I got to know this man and I like him, So we do talk and he hopes to bring me to the real Jesus. Another was an evangelical friend and we have talked about a lot of religious things. Neither have persuaded me to their beliefs. Is there a respectful way for Christians to engage with you? Sure. Just tell me you want to talk and share your beliefs but don't be obnoxious or over bearing. The two people I mentioned above are very respectful and do not mind my challenges to what they believe. I enjoy my interaction with both. Do you think their critiques accidentally pushed you toward secularism instead? No not at all. What makes Christian anti-Mormonism so uniquely off-putting to a modern Ex-Mormon? Mostly I find they have not examined their own beliefs with the same rigor with which they criticize Mormonism with.

Ah well, To bad for you it is all a fantasy. When I ponder the great length of time this planet has existed, and the clear evidence that life evolved over long periods of time, it seems great hubris to think that the species Homo Sapiens are the pinnacle of the evolutionary scale and that we resemble some god like being. The rate we are going humans will be long gone very soon on the evolutionary scale. But who knows. I have read that Crows are extremely intelligent creatures and that they are using rocks and such as tools. They have great memories and recognize humans and hold grudges against a human that treats them poorly. They may be next up on the most intelligent species on earth. Maybe some crow prophet in the future will say as crows are god once was, as god is crows can become. 😛

Yep

So you are happy you now have ammunition to promote the misogynistic patriarchy from 19th century Mormonism into the eternities as well?

Oh Dallin Oaks. Another reason to reject the dogma of Mormonism. At least for me and most women I know, the idea of many heavenly mothers is repugnant. Women seemed reduced to making spirit babies forever. And don't say we don't know how it works because stating there are many heavenly mothers directly correlates to some similar process as we have here on earth.

That is certainly not why there is genetic diversity among humans. Such diversity is a result of evolution over time. Nothing more or less. So you think in the pre earth life there our spirits looked like we look in earth life?

Well since the Book of Mormon is clearly a work of fiction I do not have much to worry about.

Yea @teddyawareis blinded by his rigid dogmatism and politics that is likely his true religion. He is just like the far right evangelicals and a large part of them are Christian Nationalists and they ignore what their Christianity teaches. They are whitened sepulchers that are shiny on the outside but fill of dead men's bones. And they stink like rotting corpses. Teddy is clearly just like that. He wears his Mormonism on his sleeve and pretends to be some great and wise scriptorian. But the way his religion presents itself is about as ugly as it gets.

No there is a floor you have to exceed if you itemize. See my summary,

$15,000 for single filers and $30,000 for joint filers. Personal exemption repealed. Sunsets in 2026 to $8,350 for single filers and $16,700 for joint filers, with return of personal exemption. A number of the the beneficial provisions of the new law conveniently sunset in only a few years. This one seems pretty dramatic.

Yes. Anything below $500 would not be deductible if you itemize in your example. If you do not itemize you have the above the line deduction that I posted about.

Above-the-line charitable deductions for non-itemizers Beginning in the 2026 tax year, a new deduction allows non-itemizers to deduct charitable gifts—up to $1,000 for single filers or $2,000 for married couples filing jointly. This provision is not indexed for future inflation. Implication: Since the TCJA increased the standard deduction, only about 10% of households have itemized deductions,1 making them ineligible for charitable giving tax deductions. With the introduction of this provision, all households are now eligible to receive a tax deduction for qualified charitable contributions, potentially increasing participation in giving. A similar provision during the COVID-19 pandemic allowed a $300 deduction for charitable giving under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act. Approximately 90 million taxpayers claimed it in 2020—2021. New limits to deductions for itemizers in the top tax bracket The new legislation caps the tax benefits of itemized charitable deductions at 35%, even for those in the 37% marginal tax bracket. In other words, these high-income filers donating $1,000 would receive a $350 deduction instead of the current $370. This change goes into effect in the 2026 tax year. Implication: Donors in higher tax brackets who are considering a significant philanthropic gift may want to think about accelerating their gift to 2025 to maximize their deduction under the current marginal rate before the new cap goes into effect. New floor on deductions for itemizers and corporations Effective in the 2026 tax year, itemizers who make charitable contributions will only be able to claim a tax deduction to the extent that their qualified contributions exceed 0.5% of their adjusted gross income (AGI). For example, a couple with an AGI of $300,000 could only deduct charitable donations in excess of $1,500. Similarly, corporations will only be entitled to deduct charitable contributions to qualified charities that exceed 1% of their taxable income. Implication: High-income individuals who itemize deductions should carefully consider the timing and amounts of their giving, and the strategies to maximize their deduction. For example, a bunching strategy or an approach of making larger gifts with less frequency can be more effective under the new rules. Corporations may want to take steps to proactively manage (and potentially increase) their giving to ensure they exceed the 1% threshold. https://www.fidelitycharitable.org/articles/obbb-tax-reform.html#:~:text=Beginning in the 2026 tax,not indexed for future inflation.

I think that is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

Yes but still that does not address that such travel takes a really long time. But who knows. Maybe in the next ten years what makes me me and you you may be downloaded into some sort of AI/Human combination.

Fair enough. I backpedal on my initial comments.

Could be. I love Scifi. I speculate a lot on there being other advanced life. The law of large numbers makes it seem probable. On the other hand, even though it is probable it is still likely very rare and there are likely great distances between varying advanced civilizations. I am not smart enough on science and physics and such to know for sure, but the rapid space travel we are entertained with in Star Trek and Star Wars seems rather improbable to me. And further, I am skeptical that any advanced technological life forms and God like with the powers we attribute to the God worshipped in Christianity and even Mormonism. But I guess it is fun to speculate about it,

Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence. If you think that is lazy oh well. Why should anybody give credence to anecdotal stories about visits from three people talked about in a religious text that has only been believed by maybe 30 million people in the 200 years since it was published? Why should we give this anymore attention that say Bigfoot sittings or the Loch Ness Monster? You also assume I have not spent time thinking fairly hard about such things at various points in my life and you would be wrong. Why is the comparison to elves, fairies, hobbits, leprechauns and so on not a far comparison? There is a rich tradition for all sorts of mythical creatures. Would you give credit to someone who claimed to be visited by Thor? If not why?

I was not arguing that there is not advanced civilizations at all. But that is much different than the supernatural mythical visits from three people that allegedly lived 2000 years ago.

Those are all pretty big ifs that lack evidential support don't you think?

Are you actually serious? Do you really believe that there are three humans the existed a few thousand years ago that are sill running around doing some sort of deeds? Interesting that the three Nephites never identify themselves. Seems pretty convenient doesn't it? I think your chance of running into elves, hobbits and orcs are about the same odds as running into the three Nephites or John the Beloved.😉

All of those you list have challenged my belief, or lack thereof. You as well. I appreciate your posts.