Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

The Orthodox Church And The Lds Church

Anakin7

By Anakin7
in General Discussions

Recommended Posts

Anakin7 Veteran

Anakin7

Posted
Posted

Recently I attended a Greek Orthodox Church service here localy which was awesome. I have a friendship with the Priest there and I asked him on his thoughts on Latter Day Saints being "Christian/Christians". His answer was affirmative and positive that we were, as a part of a larger body of Believers. I was surprised at his response for I thought I had read on an Orthodox Church Official site that we were not considered "Christian" at all. Anyone have any references or links on there "Official" position on the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints ?. Thank you in advance.

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

Link to comment
volgadon Grand Master

volgadon

Posted
Posted

Recently I attended a Greek Orthodox Church service here localy which was awesome. I have a friendship with the Priest there and I asked him on his thoughts on Latter Day Saints being "Christian/Christians". His answer was affirmative and positive that we were, as a part of a larger body of Believers. I was surprised at his response for I thought I had read on an Orthodox Church Official site that we were not considered "Christian" at all. Anyone have any references or links on there "Official" position on the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints ?. Thank you in advance.

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

We are definitely on the lists of some modern Russian Orthodox counter-cultists. I've seen books for sale in church bookshops on just that. Two of my friends got kicked out of a church in Russia, because someone recognised them as LDS, and these friends also mentioned watching a something on TV where a horrified priest reported that we baptise corpses.

Link to comment
telnetd Rising Star

telnetd

Posted
Posted

Recently I attended a Greek Orthodox Church service here localy which was awesome. I have a friendship with the Priest there and I asked him on his thoughts on Latter Day Saints being "Christian/Christians". His answer was affirmative and positive that we were,

What does he think about Jehovah's Witnesses?

Gail

Link to comment
cdowis Grand Master

cdowis

Posted
Posted (edited)

Two of my friends got kicked out of a church in Russia, because someone recognised them as LDS, and these friends also mentioned watching a something on TV where a horrified priest reported that we baptise corpses.

About ten years ago I attended a meeting of antiMormon "ministers" who were raising money to send their own missionaries to Russia to help and advise the Orthodox church clergy on how to deal with the "Mormon problem".

No, I did not make a contribution.

Edited by cdowis
Link to comment
volgadon Grand Master

volgadon

Posted
Posted

About ten years ago I attended a meeting of antiMormon "ministers" who were raising money to send their own missionaries to Russia to help and advise the Orthodox church clergy on how to deal with the "Mormon problem".

No, I did not make a contribution.

Ironically, the Russian Orthodox Church would probably have been against their groups, too.

Link to comment
Hamilton Porter Mentor

Hamilton Porter

Posted
Posted

I learned from Roger Keller's American Christianity class at BYU that the Orthodox Church has retained the most truth:

  • No guilt from original sin.
  • No Calvinists.
  • No filioque/Looser oneness among members of the Trinity.
  • Temples.
  • Subordinationism (sort of?)
  • Some form of deification.

1
Link to comment
cdowis Grand Master

cdowis

Posted
Posted

Ironically, the Russian Orthodox Church would probably have been against their groups, too.

Absolutely, but these missionaries probably would be too smart to reveal their religious affiliation. They are simply concerned Christians.

Link to comment
Darren10 Grand Master

Darren10

Posted
Posted

Anakin;

I was given a link at another site about a couple of years ago regarding the Greek Orthodox denouncing of mormons as Christians. I forget the link but much of it was similar to the following lnik: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Mormonism.

The link I got delved into the obsudly silly when it warned its members of the marriott Hotel which supports the LDS church. That's right, watch out for hotel chains supporting the Mormons. :o

Link to comment
mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted

I learned from Roger Keller's American Christianity class at BYU that the Orthodox Church has retained the most truth:

  • No guilt from original sin.
  • No Calvinists.
  • No filioque/Looser oneness among members of the Trinity.
  • Temples.
  • Subordinationism (sort of?)
  • Some form of deification.

And this- I think you will find it very interesting http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/thecopticchurch/sacraments/2_confirmation.html

The Baptized is anointed with 36 signs on his joints and senses so that the Holy Spirit can dwell within them. His body and soul becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit. By this anointment, God grants the grace of confirmation to the baptized as well as the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Anointing the external organs by the Myron oil denotes anointing the power of the internal soul and its spiritual senses by the power of God to fight the hosts of evil and its power. This is because the Myron is the most powerful weapon against the devil and the best protection against sin and its seduction.

Our fathers the apostles granted this Sacrament by the laying of their hands after Baptism, as we read in the Book of Acts when St. Peter and St. John laid hands on the people of Samaria who were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and so received the Holy Spirit, (Acts 9:2-6).....

.... He anoints The Head to sanctify it. The head contains the brain, where thinking takes place. It is the brain which distinguishes humankind from other creatures. A good mind is of great use and benefit to oneself and to others also. King Solomon praises the mind saying, “When wisdom enters your heart and knowledge is pleasant to your soul, discretion will preserve you, understanding will keep you, to deliver from the way evil” (Proverbs 2: 10-12).

Also, the Lord Jesus praised the young man who answered wisely and said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God” (Mark 12:34). And St. Paul our teacher prays for us saying, “And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:7).

The Nostrils contain the sense of smell, and it is an important sense, for if a person is not careful and alert, it is possible for impure thoughts to enter ones heart through this sense. Hence, the priest anoints it to protect it against all sin and lust.

The Mouth with the tongue is the most dangerous organ in a person...

“If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless” (James 1:26).

“If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body" (James 3:2).

“The tongue is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison, it defiles the whole body and sets on fire the course of nature, and it is set on fire by hell” (James 3:8,6), if it is not controlled.

The Psalmist prays, “Set a guard O Lord, over my mouth. Keep watch over the door of my lips. Do not incline my heart to any evil thing” (Psalm 141:3,4)

And the wise King Solomon said: “Whoever guards his mouth and tongue keeps his soul from troubles” (Proverbs 21:23), and, “Put away from you a deceitful mouth, and put perverse lips far from you” (Proverbs 4:24. We ought to keep our tongue from sins such as swearing, insulting, lying, judging, and gossiping. Our words should always be graceful.

The Ears provide us with the important sense of hearing, which should also be controlled, and the anointing of the Myron is a strong weapon in control what we hear. We protect our ears from hearing such things as gossip, and other conversations which may poison our hearts with revenge and hatred. We also protect our ears from hearing certain songs which may poison our hearts with lustful thoughts.

The Eyes are the most important sense, through which enters more than 80% of information which may affect our hearts. If the information is holy, it sanctifies the heart, and vice versa. For this reason, we should control what we see so that we may keep ourselves pure. The tenth commandment says, “Do not covet”. The Psalmist prays, “Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things” (Psalm 119:37), and, “Open my eyes, that I may see wondrous things from Your law” (Psalm 119:17).

The text continues describing the annointings on the various other body parts.

Link to comment
Spammer Mentor

Spammer

Posted
Posted (edited)

I learned from Roger Keller's American Christianity class at BYU that the Orthodox Church has retained the most truth:

  • No guilt from original sin.
  • No Calvinists.
  • No filioque/Looser oneness among members of the Trinity.
  • Temples.
  • Subordinationism (sort of?)
  • Some form of deification.

  • No guilt from original sin.

This is true. None of us inherited any guilt from the Fall. The Orthodox do not accept Augustine's formulation of original sin. Rather, we believe that the Fall corrupted our nature, depriving us of grace and giving every person an inclination to sin.

  • No Calvinists.

Nope.

  • No filioque/Looser oneness among members of the Trinity.

Correct, no filoque. I don't know that I agree that we believe in a 'looser oneness' of members of the Trinity. Like the Western Church, we believe, as it states in the Creed, "in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father..." We believe in One God in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One divine essence, indivisible, incomprehensible, impassible.

  • Temples.

We call our churches temples. The iconostasis reprepresents the veil and the altar is located behind the veil in the holy of holies, the place where heaven and earth meet. "On earth as it is in heaven". The angel priesthood serves at the altar and the priest serves in the person of our Great High Priest, Jesus.

  • Subordinationism (sort of?)

We view all members of the Holy Trinity as equal in glory and power. The Father eternally begets, the Son is eternally begotten, and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds. All are eternally God, sharing the one divine essence. There is only one God, not three. We Orthodox are not subordinationists.

  • Some form of deification.

Yes. We call this theosis. Many LDS apologists quote our greek Orthodox church fathers to discuss deification and show it is an ancient teaching. It is; it was taught by Jesus to the Apostles, who transmitted it to their bishop successors, whose own bishop successors have preserved the true teaching about theosis within Holy Tradition. Theosis and the LDS teaching of exaltation bear many similarities, though we Orthdox do not believe we will be God, or be exactly like God. He is uncreated; we are created. We have human natures; God is divine and possesses a divine nature (essence). We will always be human, though deified. We will partake of the divine nature in Christ; the divine essence will permeate our very being, illuminating us and turning us into 'gods' (with a small 'g'). But we will still have a human nature, not a divine nature. We will partake of that nature, not have that nature for ourselves. There is only one God, one infinite, divine essence. This is theosis in the Orthodox Church

I hope that helps..

Edited by Spammer
3
Link to comment
Darren10 Grand Master

Darren10

Posted
Posted (edited)

mfbukowski;

And this- I think you will find it very interesting http://www.copticchu...nfirmation.html
Quote

The Baptized is anointed with 36 signs on his joints and senses so that the Holy Spirit can dwell within them. His body and soul becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit. By this anointment, God grants the grace of confirmation to the baptized as well as the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Anointing the external organs by the Myron oil denotes anointing the power of the internal soul and its spiritual senses by the power of God to fight the hosts of evil and its power. This is because the Myron is the most powerful weapon against the devil and the best protection against sin and its seduction.

Our fathers the apostles granted this Sacrament by the laying of their hands after Baptism, as we read in the Book of Acts when St. Peter and St. John laid hands on the people of Samaria who were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and so received the Holy Spirit, (Acts 9:2-6).....

.... He anoints The Head to sanctify it. The head contains the brain, where thinking takes place. It is the brain which distinguishes humankind from other creatures. A good mind is of great use and benefit to oneself and to others also. King Solomon praises the mind saying, “When wisdom enters your heart and knowledge is pleasant to your soul, discretion will preserve you, understanding will keep you, to deliver from the way evil” (Proverbs 2: 10-12).

Also, the Lord Jesus praised the young man who answered wisely and said to him: “You are not far from the Kingdom of God” (Mark 12:34). And St. Paul our teacher prays for us saying, “And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:7).

The Nostrils contain the sense of smell, and it is an important sense, for if a person is not careful and alert, it is possible for impure thoughts to enter ones heart through this sense. Hence, the priest anoints it to protect it against all sin and lust.

The Mouth with the tongue is the most dangerous organ in a person...

“If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless” (James 1:26).

“If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body" (James 3:2).

“The tongue is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison, it defiles the whole body and sets on fire the course of nature, and it is set on fire by hell” (James 3:8,6), if it is not controlled.

The Psalmist prays, “Set a guard O Lord, over my mouth. Keep watch over the door of my lips. Do not incline my heart to any evil thing” (Psalm 141:3,4)

And the wise King Solomon said: “Whoever guards his mouth and tongue keeps his soul from troubles” (Proverbs 21:23), and, “Put away from you a deceitful mouth, and put perverse lips far from you” (Proverbs 4:24. We ought to keep our tongue from sins such as swearing, insulting, lying, judging, and gossiping. Our words should always be graceful.

The Ears provide us with the important sense of hearing, which should also be controlled, and the anointing of the Myron is a strong weapon in control what we hear. We protect our ears from hearing such things as gossip, and other conversations which may poison our hearts with revenge and hatred. We also protect our ears from hearing certain songs which may poison our hearts with lustful thoughts.

The Eyes are the most important sense, through which enters more than 80% of information which may affect our hearts. If the information is holy, it sanctifies the heart, and vice versa. For this reason, we should control what we see so that we may keep ourselves pure. The tenth commandment says, “Do not covet”. The Psalmist prays, “Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things” (Psalm 119:37), and, “Open my eyes, that I may see wondrous things from Your law” (Psalm 119:17).

That *IS* interesting!!!

Edited by Darren10
Link to comment
Spammer Mentor

Spammer

Posted
Posted (edited)

And this- I think you will find it very interesting http://www.copticchu...nfirmation.html

The text continues describing the annointings on the various other body parts.

I love this. This beautifully describes the rite of chrismation, which occurs right after baptism. It seals the gift of the Holy Spirit on the newly baptized Christian and makes them one of the illumined.

Edited to add: this description is from the Coptic Orthodox rite (Egypt). I worship according to the Byzantine rite. There are some minor differences.

Edited by Spammer
Link to comment
Spammer Mentor

Spammer

Posted
Posted (edited)

Spammer #13;

Thank you for that!!!

You're welcome. I'm glad its helpful. LDS and Orthodox theology are uncannily similar in many respects. Speaking to the OP, there are those, sadly, who consider the LDS Church to be a cult and non-Christian. It's true, the official view of all Orthodox churches is that LDS baptism is not valid (it is non-Trinitarian), but there is no official statement to my knowledge that calls Mormons non-Christians. It is also official that although salvation can only be found within the church, we have no knowledge of who will or will not be saved outside of it. It is a sin to usurp God's role as judge and assert that any non-Orthodox will not be saved. They are in the hands of God and he will save whomever he will. We Orthodox are called on to ask the Lord for mercy every day of our lives and worry only about ourselves.

Edited by Spammer
Link to comment
mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted
I worship according to the Byzantine rite. There are some minor differences.

Didn't know that- when I was Catholic I attended Byzantine rite liturgies a lot and was really fascinated by them! Had I stayed Catholic I would probably have gone Byzantine rite then perhaps moved on to Orthodoxy of one kind or other, but I went for Restored Orthodoxy instead! ;)

1
Link to comment
mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted

That *IS* interesting!!!

Yeah, pretty clever of Joseph to find out all these esoteric facts and put them all together, in one place, hey?

Link to comment
Spammer Mentor

Spammer

Posted
Posted

Didn't know that- when I was Catholic I attended Byzantine rite liturgies a lot and was really fascinated by them! Had I stayed Catholic I would probably have gone Byzantine rite then perhaps moved on to Orthodoxy of one kind or other, but I went for Restored Orthodoxy instead! ;)

Lol, I hear ya. If only there really had been an apostasy... 8P

Most Eastern Orthodox churches use the Byzantine Rite, same as Eastern Catholics. A few US parishes use the Orthodox Western Rite. These are typically Russian Orthodox parishes that receive permission to celebrate the Western Rite in the US or UK.

Link to comment
mfbukowski Grand Master

mfbukowski

Posted
Posted

Heh. No doubt. He must have checked out a book about it from his local library.

That was quite a library for a frontier town! ;)

1
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...