(Lack of) Women in the Book of Mormon

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Women don’t need noticing.  Just ask the folks of  Afghanistan.

I was reading about their current problems on Wednesday. What a tragedy.

[Stargazer]

On 8/27/2024 at 3:09 AM, webbles said:

This made me think of how early Romans named their daughters.  All the daughters were given the exact same name.  It was the feminine form of family name.  So, if your family name was "Aemilius", then all your daughters were named "Aemilia".  If you had one daughter, it was simple.  If you had two daughters, then you might call one "Aemilia Maior" (the eldest) and the other "Aemilia Minor" (the youngest).  If you have more than 2, then you start counting them, such as "Aemilia Tertia" (the third).  All women with that same last name were named "Aemilia", so all your cousins, nieces (if their dad is your brother), and aunts.  It sounds like a headache.  The female names did get better by the time of the Roman Empire but there were several hundred years of this naming convention.

There have been other societies with odd child-naming conventions. One that I am familiar with sometimes gave the same name to boys and girls in a family. And while the custom wasn't terribly widespread, it did occur occasionally. One of my great grandparent families from Germany had nine boys and two girls. Four boys were named August, three as first names, like their father. One had August as a middle name. It's not clear from the record which names were used to distinguish them. The girls got unique names. After my great grandmother was widowed she remarried and had one more child, a son they named Martin. But one of Martin's half-brothers was also named Martin! That was my grandfather, and I know he went by Martin, so I assume his half-brother used his middle name, Johann. Going one generation further up father August's tree, three of his brothers were also named August!

In my wife's father's family (also from Germany) two of the boys (born consecutively two year apart) were given the first name of Hermann, but went by their middle names, which were Otto and Oskar. A boy born two years after Hermann Oskar was given the names Albert Oskar, and he went by Albert. Two of the girls (born 8 years apart) were given the first name of Anna, but went by their middle names, Betty and Ella. 

Family reunions in such situations would have been very very confusing.

Edited August 31, 2024 by Stargazer
fixing an awkward sentence

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

There have been other societies with odd child-naming conventions. One that I am familiar with sometimes gave the same name to boys and girls in a family. And while the custom wasn't terribly widespread, it did occur occasionally. One of my great grandparent families from Germany had nine boys and two girls. Four boys were named August, three as first names, like their father. One had August as a middle name. It's not clear from the record which names were used to distinguish them. The girls got unique names. After my great grandmother was widowed she remarried and had one more child, a son they named Martin. But one of Martin's half-brothers was also named Martin! That was my grandfather, and I know he went by Martin, so I assume his half-brother used his middle name, Johann. Going one generation further up father August's tree, three of his brothers were also named August!

In my wife's father's family (also from Germany) two of the boys (born consecutively two year apart) were given the first name of Hermann, but went by their middle names, which were Otto and Oskar. A boy born two years after Hermann Oskar was given the names Albert Oskar, and he went by Albert. Two of the girls (born 8 years apart) were given the first name of Anna, but went by their middle names, Betty and Ella. 

Family reunions in such situations would have been very very confusing.

These were living children?  I have seen quite a few family records where a name is repeated if a child died.

[Tacenda]

Well, up until the 1970's a woman couldn't apply for a credit card, or own a house in her name only, or even open a bank account. So I guess in the scriptures of long ago women didn't need to be mentioned much too. 😖

[Calm]

48 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

or own a house in her name only

I think that was just for getting loans as they at to at least have a male co-signer, they could own the property themselves by 1900.

https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/resource/womens-rights/#:~:text=1900Women Gain Property Rights,property in their own name.

So a widow or an unmarried daughter who inherited a house from a parent could have her own house or a woman who could buy a house outright could do so, but it would prevent most women who needed a mortgage to purchase a home from getting one without a man’s name on the loan as well.

Edited August 31, 2024 by Calm

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

These were living children?  I have seen quite a few family records where a name is repeated if a child died.

That has happened in other parts of my extended family, too, but in the cases I mentioned there were no deaths. And as I said, the children with the same first names went by their middle names. The name used on a day-to-day basis in Germany is the "Rufname". <- see the link for more info on this.

In German naming, it is not uncommon for a child to use his or her middle name for daily use. My oldest stepson is named Uwe Frank. "Uwe" is a fairly common first name, but the family never used it, and almost always called him "Frank." Unless he was being chided! There's an example in recent church history with the first general authority from Germany, F. Enzio Busche. His full name was Friedrich Enzio Busche, but Enzio was his Rufname.