Foretelling in the Book of Mormon Part 2

[Bernard Gui]

 

A wonderful discovery this week:
As Sister Gui and I were reading Alma 13 this week, I saw something that I had never paid much attention to before. Speaking to Zeezrom, Alma prophesied something else that would occur before Christ would visit the Nephites, other than great destruction.

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22 Yea, and the voice of the Lord, by the mouth of angels, doth declare [the coming of the Lord] unto all nations; yea, doth declare it, that they may have glad tidings of great joy; yea, and he doth sound these glad tidings among all his people,

Glad tidings of joy were brought to His people in the Old World by angels...shepherds abiding in their fields...

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Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11.For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

These glad tidings of joy would also come to the Nephites in the New World, but in a different and unmistakable way. As wanderers in a strange land they would not be witnesses to His ministry in the Old World, so an undeniable sign would be given to them. They were a favorable people being prepared for His visit with them after His death, but they were blessed with another sign of His birth.

 

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22 ...yea, even to them that are scattered abroad upon the face of the earth, wherefore they have come unto us.

23 And they are made known unto us in plain terms, that we may understand, that we cannot err; and this because of our being wanderers in a strange land; therefore, we are thus highly favored, for we have these glad tidings declared unto us in all parts of our vineyard.

24 For behold, angels are declaring it unto many at this time in our land; and this is for the purpose of preparing the hearts of the children of men to receive his word at the time of his coming in his glory.

Alma did not know the time of the Lord's coming, but before it would happen God would reveal it to just and holy men and all parts of their vineyard would witness it. 

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25 And now we only wait to hear the joyful news declared unto us by the mouth of angels, of his coming; for the time cometh, we know not how soon.  Would to God that it might be in my day; but let it be sooner or later, in it I will rejoice. 

26 And it shall be made known unto just and holy men, by the mouth of angels, at the time of his coming, that the words of our fathers may be fulfilled, according to that which they have spoken concerning him, which was according to the spirit of prophecy which was in them

Alma refers to Samuel the Lamanite who had made a prophecy about the coming of the Lord...a general time but a specific sign...

 

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Helaman 14:2 And behold, he said unto them: Behold, I give unto you a sign; for five years more cometh, and behold, then cometh the Son of God to redeem all those who shall believe on his name. 

3 And behold, this will I give unto you for a sign at the time of his coming; for behold, there shall be great lights in heaven, insomuch that in the night before he cometh there shall be no darkness, insomuch that it shall appear unto man as if it was day.

Given our recent discussion of foretelling in the Book of Mormon, it occurred to me that this prophesy was fulfilled to the letter in 3 Nephi 1. Tired of waiting for the coming of the Lord, wicked people threatened to kill everyone who believed it was about to happen. The distraught prophet Nephi pleaded with the Lord to prevent this atrocity...

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3 Nephi 1:4 And it came to pass that in the commencement of the ninety and second year, behold, the prophecies of the prophets began to be fulfilled more fully; for there began to be greater signs and greater miracles wrought among the people….9 Now it came to pass that there was a day set apart by the unbelievers, that all those who believed in those traditions should be put to death except the sign should come to pass, which had been given by Samuel the prophet. 10 Now it came to pass that when Nephi, the son of Nephi, saw this wickedness of his people, his heart was exceedingly sorrowful.

11 And it came to pass that he went out and bowed himself down upon the earth, and cried mightily to his God in behalf of his people, yea, those who were about to be destroyed because of their faith in the tradition of their fathers.

12 And it came to pass that he cried mightily unto the Lord all that day;

 

And in fulfillment of Alma's prophesy, the precise time of the coming was of the Lord revealed to Nephi, a just and holy man. There is the added bonus of the fulfillment of Samuel the Lamanite's prophecy of the time and sign of the Lord's coming...

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12 ...and behold, the voice of the Lord came unto him, saying:

13 Lift up your head and be of good cheer; for behold, the time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I into the world, to show unto the world that I will fulfill all that which I have caused to be spoken by the mouth of my holy prophets.

14 Behold, I come unto my own, to fulfill all things which I have made known unto the children of men from the foundation of the world, and to do the will, both of the Father and of the Son—of the Father because of me, and of the Son because of my flesh. And behold, the time is at hand, and this night shall the sign be given.

15 And it came to pass that the words which came unto Nephi were fulfilled, according as they had been spoken; for behold, at the going down of the sun there was no darkness.

After 82 years, two books, and 113 pages Alma's brief prophecy was fulfilled in detail: at the time of His coming it would be revealed to just and holy men and Samuel's prophecy would be fulfilled.

After 6 years, 1 book, and 6 years, Samuel's prophecy was fulfilled in detail: five years, two days without a night.

Thus the coming of the Lord in the Old World was attested by three prophets in the Book of Mormon, an excellent example of "foretelling in the Book of Mormon."

As the editor of the Nephite records Mormon was so careful and thorough in his details. Fascinating!

Edited July 1, 2024 by Bernard Gui

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

 

A wonderful discovery this week:
As Sister Gui and I were reading Alma 13 this week, I saw something that I had never paid much attention to before. Speaking to Zeezrom, Alma prophesied something else that would occur before Christ would visit the Nephites, other than great destruction.

Glad tidings of joy were brought to His people in the Old World by angels...shepherds abiding in their fields...

These glad tidings of joy would also come to the Nephites in the New World, but in a different and unmistakable way..

 

Alma did not know the time of the Lord's coming, but before it would happen God would reveal it to just and holy men and all parts of their vineyard would witness it. 

Alma refers to Samuel the Lamanite who had made a prophecy about the coming of the Lord...a general time but a specific sign...

 

Given our recent discussion of foretelling in the Book of Mormon, it occurred to me that this prophesy was fulfilled to the letter in 3 Nephi 1. Tired of waiting for the coming of the Lord, wicked people threatened to kill everyone who believed it was about to happen. The distraught prophet Nephi pleaded with the Lord to prevent this atrocity...

And in fulfillment of Alma's prophesy, the precise time of the coming was of the Lord revealed to Nephi, and there is the added bonus of the fulfillment of Samuel the Lamanite's prophecy of the time and sign of the Lord's coming...

After 82 years, two books, and 113 pages Alma's brief prophecy was fulfilled in detail: at the time of His coming it would be revealed to just and holy men and Samuel's prophecy would be fulfilled.

After 6 years, 1 book, and 6 years, Samuel's prophecy was fulfilled in detail: five years, two days without a night.

Thus the coming of the Lord in the Old World was attested by three prophets in the Book of Mormon, an excellent example of "foretelling in the Book of Mormon."

Fascinating!

Also an excellent example of a second witness (New World prophets foretelling events to take place in Jerusalem as well as in their own land, and the coordination of these events in both places ).

[Bernard Gui]

16 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Also an excellent example of a second witness (New World prophets foretelling events to take place in Jerusalem as well as in their own land, and the coordination of these events in both places ).

Indeed. I hadn't thought of the second witness aspect. Great observation.

[Zosimus]

On 7/1/2024 at 8:29 AM, CV75 said:

Also an excellent example of a second witness (New World prophets foretelling events to take place in Jerusalem as well as in their own land, and the coordination of these events in both places ).

There's another example of this in an ancient Christian text called Revelation of the Magi. Here's a good summary in the MI:

“One Drop of Salvation from the House of Majesty”: An Analysis of the Revelation of the Magi and Restoration Scripture

It's written from the perspective of a people in the farthest eastern edges of the world. They had learned of the coming of a Messiah from antediluvian texts, which they preserved in a cave on a mountain. Just before His birth in Bethlehem, Christ appeared to 12 magi who prayed silently in the cave awaiting the signs. They travel with gifts to Jerusalem and return to their land. Not long after, Thomas the apostle arrives to baptize the people of the land. Christ also makes an appearance.

Since this text was circulated in manuscript form several centuries before the Book of Mormon, it would be the second witness. The Book of Mormon would be the third. Unless of course the land described in this text is the same as the land described in the Book of Mormon. 

[CV75]

9 hours ago, Zosimus said:

There's another example of this in an ancient Christian text called Revelation of the Magi. Here's a good summary in the MI:

“One Drop of Salvation from the House of Majesty”: An Analysis of the Revelation of the Magi and Restoration Scripture

It's written from the perspective of a people in the farthest eastern edges of the world. They had learned of the coming of a Messiah from antediluvian texts, which they preserved in a cave on a mountain. Just before His birth in Bethlehem, Christ appeared to 12 magi who prayed silently in the cave awaiting the signs. They travel with gifts to Jerusalem and return to their land. Not long after, Thomas the apostle arrives to baptize the people of the land. Christ also makes an appearance.

Since this text was circulated in manuscript form several centuries before the Book of Mormon, it would be the second witness. The Book of Mormon would be the third. Unless of course the land described in this text is the same as the land described in the Book of Mormon. 

Counting that way, the Book of Mormon might be the thousandth witness, plus quoting witnesses from prophets of prior dispensations.

[The Nehor]

20 hours ago, Zosimus said:

There's another example of this in an ancient Christian text called Revelation of the Magi. Here's a good summary in the MI:

“One Drop of Salvation from the House of Majesty”: An Analysis of the Revelation of the Magi and Restoration Scripture

It's written from the perspective of a people in the farthest eastern edges of the world. They had learned of the coming of a Messiah from antediluvian texts, which they preserved in a cave on a mountain. Just before His birth in Bethlehem, Christ appeared to 12 magi who prayed silently in the cave awaiting the signs. They travel with gifts to Jerusalem and return to their land. Not long after, Thomas the apostle arrives to baptize the people of the land. Christ also makes an appearance.

Since this text was circulated in manuscript form several centuries before the Book of Mormon, it would be the second witness. The Book of Mormon would be the third. Unless of course the land described in this text is the same as the land described in the Book of Mormon. 

Except that it is almost certainly not true and grew out of Christianity itself and not an independent revelation.

[Zosimus]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Except that it is almost certainly not true and grew out of Christianity itself and not an independent revelation.

Which text are you referring to? Hard to say one is, and the other isn't

Edited July 3, 2024 by Zosimus

[Zosimus]

14 hours ago, CV75 said:

Counting that way, the Book of Mormon might be the thousandth witness, plus quoting witnesses from prophets of prior dispensations.

There are texts from the old world foretelling a messiah, some also identifying the messiah as Jesus. The Quran, for example. But we don’t usually count all these as ‘second’ witnesses because they are almost all written by people who were familiar with the first-hand accounts of Jesus Christ.

Setting aside the question of historicity, the Book of Mormon and Revelation of the Magi are the only texts that I know of that claim to be written by a people that are isolated and separated from the old world that directly witness Christ after his death.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Zosimus said:

Which text are you referring to? Hard to say one is, and the other isn't

The Revelation of the Magi.

It is pretty easy to say one is inaccurate. It occurs in a semi-mythical land where an unbroken line of prophets has been waiting for the Messiah since Seth. Yeah, not buying it.

[Zosimus]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is pretty easy to say one is inaccurate. It occurs in a semi-mythical land where an unbroken line of prophets has been waiting for the Messiah since Seth. Yeah, not buying it.

I'm not seeing the clear difference. The Book of Mormon is also set in a semi-mythical land where an unbroken line of prophets have been foretelling Christ since Adam

By inaccurate, do you mean something like untrue? Are you saying the older Syriac text is inaccurate while the text published in 1830 is accurate?

Edited July 3, 2024 by Zosimus

[CV75]

6 hours ago, Zosimus said:

There are texts from the old world foretelling a messiah, some also identifying the messiah as Jesus. The Quran, for example. But we don’t usually count all these as ‘second’ witnesses because they are almost all written by people who were familiar with the first-hand accounts of Jesus Christ.

Setting aside the question of historicity, the Book of Mormon and Revelation of the Magi are the only texts that I know of that claim to be written by a people that are isolated and separated from the old world that directly witness Christ after his death.

And a finer point, the Book of Mormon carries the subtitle, "Another [not a Second] Witness of Jesus Christ" to help clarify and emphasize its purpose.

 

[The Nehor]

13 hours ago, Zosimus said:

I'm not seeing the clear difference. The Book of Mormon is also set in a semi-mythical land where an unbroken line of prophets have been foretelling Christ since Adam

By inaccurate, do you mean something like untrue? Are you saying the older Syriac text is inaccurate while the text published in 1830 is accurate?

I am saying that the Book of Mormon has a better claim to being independently produced.