Are there Biblical Scriptures that My LDS Friends Believe Refer Specifically and Only to the LDS Church?

[theplains]

On 2/11/2024 at 11:53 PM, InCognitus said:

I already explained that our God and Father is the most intelligent of “all”, and there is no getting around that.

Yes. I think that theology comes from Abraham chapter 3.  This all seems to be all his begotten spirit
children and all his other created intelligent creatures on our Earth and all his created angels in heaven.  

This is applicable to his own realm.  Unless he supersedes even his own Father and Mother.

[theplains]

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

As for who that person is in Isaiah 11:12, it is God doing the gathering through the work of his representatives on the earth (starting with Joseph Smith and others).

I believe it is Christ who is building his church (Matthew 16:18) and using his 
representatives on earth but I don’t believe it started with Joseph Smith. 

Isaiah 11:12 is not about gathering those of Judah into his church or stakes of 
Zion throughout the world.
 

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

The point is that Ephraim is the firstborn in the family of Jacob (Israel).  The firstborn of the other sons doesn’t matter to the question of who is the firstborn of Israel, so why even bring this up?

Ephraim had several sons.  Who was the firstborn?  All of them or just the first 
born?  What responsibilities does the firstborn have?
 

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

But this was a question about why Ephraim is called the “firstborn” in Jeremiah 31:9. There is simply no reason and no other precedent for the northern 10 tribes to be called the “firstborn” other than that the tribe of Ephraim was designated as the firstborn as I explained in my prior post.

I believe he was designated as the first born of Jacob's family, not the firstborn 
of all the families of the other 11 sons of Jacob.

For example, Ephraim had several sons himself. Numbers 26:35 lists three of them: 
a) Shuthelah, the clan of the Shuthelahites b) Becher, the clan of the Becherites 
and c) Tahan, the clan of the Tahanites.

Was Ephraim (the father) the firstborn of Tahan's family or was Tahan's first born 
the firstborn of Tahan's family?
 

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

 I do agree that when God speaks of Ephraim as his firstborn in Jeremiah 31:9 it is a message of reassurance.

So you believe the message of reassurance in Jeremiah 31 is only for Ephraim the tribe?
 

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

But it is also because that Ephraim (as a tribe) was singled out in the blessing of Moses as playing a part in the gathering of Israel, which was what Jeremiah was talking about in the context of chapter 31.

What verses of Jeremiah 31 refer to the gathering you believe?
 

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

The fact that this could be applied to any of the Lord’s servants is born out by the fact that Paul and Barnabas considered these verses to be applicable to them:  ‘Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.  For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.’  (Acts 13:46–47)”

Are you really saying the commentary says Isaiah 49:3-6 is only a prophecy about Jesus Christ and therefore Paul and Barnabas misused Isaiah 49:6 when they quoted it and said it was about them?

Thank you for that reference.

I saw this seminary teaching.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-seminary-teacher-manual/introduction-to-the-book-of-isaiah?lang=eng

Isaiah 40–48 Isaiah writes about Jesus Christ, who will act as a shepherd to 
Israel and a light to the Gentiles.

I have also found other LDS teachings which indicate the Latter-day Saints are 
lights to the Gentiles in their missionary work.  Non-LDS Christians are excluded 
because they are believed to not hold the priesthood.  This is taught in this 
seminary manual.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-86-the-parable-of-the-wheat-and-the-tares?lang=eng
 

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

But the keys to the gathering of Israel were restored to Joseph Smith by Moses in the Kirtland temple on April 3, 1836, as noted in Doctrine and Covenants 110:11.  So it would be after that time. 

In your post on January 25, you seem to have agreed that the gathering of Israel has been happening for a while, and this is the first time you have questioned it.  

I was just expressing my belief that the gathering of individuals of Israelite 
lineage to Christ's church did not begin with Joseph Smith.  It has continued 
since the days of Christ.

Excuse the next quoted parts. For some reason I couldn't find them when I was
composing my text file.  I hope I don't misquote you.
 

Quote

So as you can see, when Christ came he didn’t “start” the gathering, rather he foretold that after his departure the scattering would be even greater than it was before (i.e. those at Judaea, “shall be led away captive into all nations”), because the two remaining tribes would also be scattered (not just the northern ten tribes) as part of the “days of vengeance” that must be fulfilled.
Furthermore, Jesus says in these verses that they will remain in this scattered state “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled”.  Therefore, it is impossible that Christ, during his mortal ministry, would be the one that would “start” the gathering.

By gathering to Christ's church, I mean he was growing the church when people (the 
Israelites) started accepting the gospel in the days of Christ and subsequently when 
the disciples went to other lands.  The building of the church continued to 70 A.D. 
and afterwards.  I don't believe Isaiah 11 is referring to members of Judah joining 
the church. 
 

Quote

The apostle Paul also affirmed this same timing of events in his epistle to the Romans, stating that Israel’s time for receiving the gospel was essentially postponed until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled:

 Israel as a whole but not individual Israelites that continued to join Christ's church 
since the days of Christ.

 

Quote

You answered this previously by saying that the gathering of Israel “started” with Christ’s ministry, which has been shown to be impossible because of what Jesus said in Luke 21:24 (see my January 25 post).  And both Jesus (Luke 21:24) and Paul (Romans 11:25) said that Israel would be in their blinded and scattered state “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled”, so this process could not have begun until relatively recently.
But you also said that Isaiah 11:10 “is a future prophecy about Christ”, and you said, when the gospel began to be taught to the Gentiles, "From that point on, the gathering of both Israelites and Gentiles into his church has been going on."  Can you explain how your interpretation fits the timeline given above, and the prophecies and statements from Jesus and Paul noted above?

I believe there are two concepts in play here.  One is "Israel as a whole" which are 
blind in part.  Then we have the individual Israelite who joined Christ's church in his 
day ministry and afterwards.  I believe the reference to Israel being in a scattered 
state is not a spiritual state but rather that they are physically scattered around the 
world.
 

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

Can you quote the part from either of those two commentaries you posted where the commentator says that Paul himself says his quote from Isaiah 11:10 is a reference to Christ?

The commentator did not specifically say Paul himself says his quote is a reference 
to Christ because Paul has already identified the person (Christ) in the verses 
before.

"Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, 
to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the Gentiles might glorify 
God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the 
Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his 
people. And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And 
again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign 
over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust".
 

On 2/12/2024 at 12:51 AM, InCognitus said:

The “jealousy” and “harassment” has to do with the hostilities that existed between the northern kingdom of the 10 tribes (Ephriam) and the southern kingdom (Judah)

When Isaiah 11:13 says, "Ephraim shall not be jealous of Judah", do you believe this 
is a reference to the tribe of Ephraim being jealous or the ten northern tribes being 
jealous of the two southern tribes or Ephraim the individual being jealous of Judah
the individual?

And why would they (or he) be jealous?

[InCognitus]

On 2/13/2024 at 10:02 AM, theplains said:

Yes. I think that theology comes from Abraham chapter 3.  This all seems to be all his begotten spirit
children and all his other created intelligent creatures on our Earth and all his created angels in heaven.  

This is applicable to his own realm.  Unless he supersedes even his own Father and Mother.

No, there are two different contexts in Abraham chapter 3.  

In the first part through verse 19, the Lord compares himself to all other spirits and says he is the greatest of all of them.  Nothing else compares to him.  This is not limited to his own realm.

It’s not until verse 22 where the Lord discusses the “intelligences that were organized before the world was”, which is a subset of all the spirits mentioned previously.  This would be those who aligned with God as his spirit children in the beginning. 

[InCognitus]

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

I believe it is Christ who is building his church (Matthew 16:18) and using his 
representatives on earth but I don’t believe it started with Joseph Smith. 

Isaiah 11:12 is not about gathering those of Judah into his church or stakes of 
Zion throughout the world.

If you don’t believe the gathering of Israel started when Christ restored his church and the keys of the gathering of Israel through Joseph Smith, but you do believe Christ is using his representatives on earth to gather Israel, then who do you believe the latter-day gathering of Israel started with?   And keep in mind we are talking about the big event of the gathering of Israel as discussed in Isaiah 11:11-16, where the Lord shall “set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathos”, etc. etc., and the “outcasts of Israel” are “assembled” and “gathered”, and not a situation where a few people from the tribe of Judah join the church in New Testament times.

As for what you say above about Isaiah 11:12, I agree that it is not about gathering those of Judah (only), it’s about gathering of all the tribes of Israel, even the lost tribes (the “outcasts of Israel”, where "Israel" is referring to the kingdom of the northern 10 tribes).  And since you say you don’t believe that it is about gathering into his church (for the assembly and gathering portions of Isaiah 11:12), then how do you believe Israel is assembled and gathered prior to them returning to their own lands?  

Also, you didn’t answer my question about your definition of “spiritual Israel”.  You were making a distinction about this previously.  What do you mean by “spiritual Israel”?  

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

On 2/11/2024 at 10:51 PM, InCognitus said:

The point is that Ephraim is the firstborn in the family of Jacob (Israel).  The firstborn of the other sons doesn’t matter to the question of who is the firstborn of Israel, so why even bring this up?

Ephraim had several sons.  Who was the firstborn?  All of them or just the first 
born?  What responsibilities does the firstborn have?

Remember, we were talking about the House of Israel and who is called the “firstborn” among the twelve tribes of Israel.  So why are you going off on a tangent about the firstborn among the descendants?  Can you explain how this has any relevance to the topic of why Ephraim is called the “firstborn” in the house of Israel?

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

I believe he was designated as the first born of Jacob's family, not the firstborn 
of all the families of the other 11 sons of Jacob.

For example, Ephraim had several sons himself. Numbers 26:35 lists three of them: 
a) Shuthelah, the clan of the Shuthelahites b) Becher, the clan of the Becherites 
and c) Tahan, the clan of the Tahanites.

Was Ephraim (the father) the firstborn of Tahan's family or was Tahan's first born 
the firstborn of Tahan's family?

That Ephraim was designated as the firstborn of Jacob’s family (the house of Israel) is precisely the point.  Ephraim and all of his descendants, as a people and tribe, received the blessings of the “firstborn”:  First when Jacob adopted Ephraim and Manasseh as his own sons and blessed them directly in Genesis 48:11-22 (putting Ephraim before Manasseh), and then again, when he blessed them through Joseph in Genesis 49, and then again by Moses in Deuteronomy 33.  In Genesis 49 and Deuteronomy 33, each of the tribes were blessed and each of them received unique blessings, but Ephraim received the firstborn blessing.

As the family tree below shows, to Judah was given the scepter promises (of which the Messiah would be a part), but to Joseph, through his son Ephraim, was given the birthright promises.  Those birthright promises included a greater land inheritance, but it also included the role of gathering God’s people from the ends of the earth.

 

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

So you believe the message of reassurance in Jeremiah 31 is only for Ephraim the tribe?

Of course not.  Since Ephriam (as a people) had the role of gathering the people, the reassurance was to all the lost tribes, that they would be assembled and gathered together and return to their rightful place in God’s kingdom.  And the name Ephraim also carried the double meaning for them as referring to all of the northern kingdom as well.

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

What verses of Jeremiah 31 refer to the gathering you believe?

From the start through verse 17 at least.

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

Thank you for that reference.

I saw this seminary teaching.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-seminary-teacher-manual/introduction-to-the-book-of-isaiah?lang=eng

Isaiah 40–48 Isaiah writes about Jesus Christ, who will act as a shepherd to 
Israel and a light to the Gentiles.

What does this have to do with anything we were discussing?  (It doesn’t).  I was discussing Isaiah 49:3-6 with you (not the entire chapters of Isaiah 40-48).  In response, you claimed “Isaiah chapter 49 is a prophecy about Jesus Christ.”  Obviously verse 6 of that chapter is not only about Jesus Christ, since Paul and Barnabas said the verse was about them in the New Testament.    

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

On 2/11/2024 at 10:51 PM, InCognitus said:

But the keys to the gathering of Israel were restored to Joseph Smith by Moses in the Kirtland temple on April 3, 1836, as noted in Doctrine and Covenants 110:11.  So it would be after that time. 

In your post on January 25, you seem to have agreed that the gathering of Israel has been happening for a while, and this is the first time you have questioned it.  

I was just expressing my belief that the gathering of individuals of Israelite 
lineage to Christ's church did not begin with Joseph Smith.  It has continued 
since the days of Christ.

I realize this is your belief, but remember, we have been discussing the big gathering event prophesied in Isaiah 11:10-16, where “the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people” and he “shall assemble the outcasts of Israel [the northern 10 tribes], and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth”, which culminates in them returning to their own lands.  This is not a few Jews joining the church starting at the time of Christ, because Jesus said the remaining Jews would be “led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” (Luke 21:24).  

So how does your belief on this fit with what is being described in Isaiah 11:10-16?
 

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

By gathering to Christ's church, I mean he was growing the church when people (the 
Israelites) started accepting the gospel in the days of Christ and subsequently when 
the disciples went to other lands.  The building of the church continued to 70 A.D. 
and afterwards.  I don't believe Isaiah 11 is referring to members of Judah joining 
the church. 

I agree that some members of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin joined Christ’s church in the beginning, and I’m sure that some have converted to Christianity since that time.  But Isaiah 11:10-16 can’t be only about that because it describes all of the house of Israel (all twelve tribes) being gathered (both “Israel” and “Judah”), and according to Jesus, Israel would remain scattered “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled”.  

And apparently you agree with me, since you say above, “I don't believe Isaiah 11 is referring to members of Judah joining the church.”  So what is Isaiah 11:10-16 talking about?
 

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

Quote

The apostle Paul also affirmed this same timing of events in his epistle to the Romans, stating that Israel’s time for receiving the gospel was essentially postponed until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled:

 Israel as a whole but not individual Israelites that continued to join Christ's church 
since the days of Christ.

But we were discussing Isaiah 11:10-16, not a few individuals from Judah and Benjamin that joined Christ’s church.

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

I believe there are two concepts in play here.  One is "Israel as a whole" which are 
blind in part.  Then we have the individual Israelite who joined Christ's church in his 
day ministry and afterwards.  I believe the reference to Israel being in a scattered 
state is not a spiritual state but rather that they are physically scattered around the 
world.

So what type of gathering is Isaiah 11:10-16 talking about?  A few individuals from Judah and Benjamin joining the church, or something else?

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

On 2/11/2024 at 10:51 PM, InCognitus said:

Can you quote the part from either of those two commentaries you posted where the commentator says that Paul himself says his quote from Isaiah 11:10 is a reference to Christ?

The commentator did not specifically say Paul himself says his quote is a reference 
to Christ because Paul has already identified the person (Christ) in the verses 
before.

"Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, 
to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the Gentiles might glorify 
God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the 
Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his 
people. And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And 
again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign 
over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust".

Except in verse 8, Paul stated that Christ’s mission was to the “circumcision” (the Jews), not to the Gentiles.  As I said in my post on January 27:   

“Regarding Romans 15:12 where Paul quotes from Isaiah 11:10, your reasoning that Paul is referring to Christ in that verse also doesn’t make sense within the context.  In verse 8 of that chapter, Paul made it clear that Christ’s mission was to the ‘circumcision’, which was Paul’s way of designating the Jews.  Paul is saying that Jesus ministered to the Jews so that he could confirm God’s promises to the 'fathers' (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).  Paul’s intent here and in the next few verses is to explain that even though Christ’s mission was to the House of Israel, the scriptures also foretold that the time would come when the Gentiles would have the gospel preached to them as well.”

There’s no place in Romans 15 where Paul identifies the person spoken about in his quote from Isaiah 11:10 as Christ.

On 2/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, theplains said:

When Isaiah 11:13 says, "Ephraim shall not be jealous of Judah", do you believe this 
is a reference to the tribe of Ephraim being jealous or the ten northern tribes being 
jealous of the two southern tribes or Ephraim the individual being jealous of Judah
the individual?

And why would they (or he) be jealous?

In answer to both of your questions, I’ll simply repeat what I said last time (because I made myself quite clear and it answers your questions):  “The ‘jealousy’ and ‘harassment’ has to do with the hostilities that existed between the northern kingdom of the 10 tribes (Ephraim) and the southern kingdom (Judah), starting in (roughly) 1 Kings 11:26 through 1 Kings chapter 12 (16-20), where the 10 tribes were about to spilt out and Solomon sought to kill Jeroboam, and then Jeroboam’s break with Rehoboam after Solomon’s death and the 10 northern tribes turn to Jeroboam.”

But the men of Ephraim seemed to be jealous anytime people from one or more of the other tribes got to do something they did not get to do (see Judges 8:1 and Judges 12:1 as examples of this), so perhaps that same mentality became part of the general attitude of the entire northern kingdom through the rule of Jeroboam, their first king, who was of the tribe of Ephraim. 

[theplains]

On 2/18/2024 at 12:33 AM, InCognitus said:

In the first part through verse 19, the Lord compares himself to all other spirits and says he is the greatest of all of them.  

Is Heavenly Father greater than his own Heavenly Father (Jesus' grandfather) or are
you excluding Heavenly Father's Father from Abraham chapter 3?

When you refer to "all other spirits", are you referring to "all other Gods" in all other 
realms or just all the spirit children of Heavenly Father in his realm?
 

On 2/18/2024 at 12:33 AM, InCognitus said:

Nothing else compares to him.  This is not limited to his own realm.

Latter-day Saints are taught that in their exaltation, they will receive some blessings.
(Source: chapter 47, Gospel Principles)

#5 says the following: 

They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power,
glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith
wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to
those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge,
wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall
burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56],
2:36; italics in original).

Doctrine and Covenants 76:95 lends further support.

"And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion".

Sounds very much that other future Mormon Gods will compare equally to Heavenly
Father.

Edited February 20, 2024 by theplains

[theplains]

 

Let me branch off your longer reply into a new thread so it's easier to follow.

Edited February 20, 2024 by theplains

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, theplains said:

Sounds very much that other future Mormon Gods will compare equally to Heavenly
Father.

Doesn’t say he will make them equal in intelligence.

[theplains]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Doesn’t say he will make them equal in intelligence.

Is Heavenly Father (of our Earth) more intelligent than his Heavenly Father, his
Heavenly Mother, his Heavenly Grandfather and Heavenly Grandmother?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

Is Heavenly Father (of our Earth) more intelligent than his Heavenly Father, his
Heavenly Mother, his Heavenly Grandfather and Heavenly Grandmother?

Feel free to ask him as best source.

[InCognitus]

7 hours ago, theplains said:

Is Heavenly Father greater than his own Heavenly Father (Jesus' grandfather) or are
you excluding Heavenly Father's Father from Abraham chapter 3?

God is including everything and everywhere in the first part of Abraham chapter 3 through verse 19.  (And your interpretation above is just one interpretation).

7 hours ago, theplains said:

When you refer to "all other spirits", are you referring to "all other Gods" in all other 
realms or just all the spirit children of Heavenly Father in his realm?

I explained this in my last post, and you're just asking the same question over again.  As I said last time:

On 2/17/2024 at 10:33 PM, InCognitus said:

No, there are two different contexts in Abraham chapter 3.  

In the first part through verse 19, the Lord compares himself to all other spirits and says he is the greatest of all of them.  Nothing else compares to him.  This is not limited to his own realm.

It’s not until verse 22 where the Lord discusses the “intelligences that were organized before the world was”, which is a subset of all the spirits mentioned previously.  This would be those who aligned with God as his spirit children in the beginning. 

It says what it says.  And also, "According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest."  (Doctrine and Covenants 121:32)

7 hours ago, theplains said:

Latter-day Saints are taught that in their exaltation, they will receive some blessings.
(Source: chapter 47, Gospel Principles)

#5 says the following: 

They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power,
glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith
wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to
those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge,
wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall
burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56],
2:36; italics in original).

Doctrine and Covenants 76:95 lends further support.

"And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion".

Sounds very much that other future Mormon Gods will compare equally to Heavenly
Father.

Yes, and the Bible says essentially the same thing:  "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Revelation 21:7).  "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Revelation 3:21)  

The fact that we inherit "all things" that the Father has (including his power) doesn't change the fact that we are eternally subject to him (as Revelation 21:7 explains), for he is the "God of gods" (Psalms 136:2-3).  And, as I said in my post on February 3, "God's creations and his 'work' and his 'glory' increase eternally.  Nobody can catch up to that."

[InCognitus]

7 hours ago, theplains said:

 

Let me branch off your longer reply into a new thread so it's easier to follow.

Why?  You should do it here so you can cover the questions I was asking you.

[theplains]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:52 PM, InCognitus said:

It says what it says.  And also, "According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest."  (Doctrine and Covenants 121:32)

Thank you.

A thought for a new thread ... but later.

[InCognitus]

6 hours ago, theplains said:

Thank you.

A thought for a new thread ... but later.

Except, that's probably all there is to say on that topic, because that's all we really know about it.