Moroni's sacrament prayers

[JustAnAustralian]

So the sacrament prayers that we use week to week are those found in D&C 20:77,79 which are the same as those found in Moroni 4:3 and 5:2.
Moroni is setting down what was described in 3 Ne 18:7 and 3 Ne 18:11

3 Nephi 18 sacrament prayer descriptions

Quote

 

6 And this shall ye always observe to do, even as I have done, even as I have broken bread and blessed it and given it unto you.

7 And this shall ye do in remembrance of my body, which I have shown unto you. And it shall be a testimony unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.

8 And it came to pass that when he said these words, he commanded his Disciples that they should take of the wine of the cup and drink of it, and that they should also give unto the multitude that they might drink of it.

9 And it came to pass that they did so, and did drink of it and were filled; and they gave unto the multitude, and they did drink, and they were filled.

10 And when the Disciples had done this, Jesus said unto them: Blessed are ye for this thing which ye have done, for this is fulfilling my commandments, and this doth witness unto the Father that ye are willing to do that which I have commanded you.

11 And this shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.

12 And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock.

 

Moroni puts them as

Quote

 

O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee, in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

 

 

In the 3Ne verses the commandments bit is associated with the water prayer, but by the time of Moroni has shifted into the bread prayer. Does anyone here know of any scriptural analysis of where this change might have actually come into play?

[Robert F. Smith]

You correctly label them "descriptions," because they are not prescriptive or liturgical.  They are merely descriptive, while Moroni provides the actual set, holy ordinance.

III Nephi 18:3-11,

3 and when the disciples[1] had come with the bread and wine

he took of the bread and brake[2] and blessed it[3]

and he gave unto the disciples and commanded that they should eat[4]
4 and when they had eat[5] and were filled

he commanded that they should give unto the multitude[6]
5 and when the multitude had eaten and were filled[7]

he saith[8] unto the disciples

behold there shall one be ordained[9] among you

and to him will i give power that

he shall brake[10] bread and bless it[11]

and give it unto the people of my church

unto all they which[12] shall believe and be baptized[13] in my name[14]
6 and this shall ye always observe to do even as i have done

even as i have broken bread and blessed it

and gave[15] it unto you
7 and this shall ye do in remembrance of my holy body

which i have shewn unto you

and it shall be a testimony unto the Father

that ye do always remember me

and if ye do always remember me

ye shall have my spirit to be with you[16]
8 ¶  and it came to pass that

when he had[17] said these words

he commanded his disciples

that they should take of the wine of the cup and drink of it

and that they should also give unto the multitude

that they might drink of it[18]
9 and it came to pass that they did so

and did drink of it and were filled

and they gave unto the multitude

and they did drink and they were filled
10 and when the disciples[19] had done this

Jesus saith[20] unto them

blessed are ye for this thing which ye have done

for this is fulfilling my commandments

and this doth witness unto the father

that ye are willing to do that which i have commanded you[21]
11 and this shall ye always do

unto[22] those who repent and are baptized in my name

and ye shall do it in rememberance of my blood

which i have shed for you

that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me

and if ye do always remember me

ye shall have my spirit to be with you[23]

Jack Welch has even taken the origins of this ordinance back to Mosiah 5 in his “Our Nephite Sacramental Prayers,” FARMS Update, June 1986, reprinted in Welch, ed., Reexploring the Book of Mormon: The F.A.R.M.S. Updates (FARMS/Deseret, 1992), 286-289, citing Hippolytus, Daniel 4, 35, and Origen, Leviticus 13, 3.

---

[1] disciples 1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908; desipels P sp (twice this vs; cf OED very archaic "desiple, desipil"); cf vss 1,5.

[2] brake P 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1874; break RLDS 1908; berak 1830 typo; cf vs 5.

[3] ‖  vs 5, Moroni 4:3 ‖  D&C 20:77.

[4] ‖  20:3.

[5] eat P 1830 thru 1879, RLDS 1908; eaten 1911 1920 1981, RLDS 1874 1953; ‖  vs 5, 20:4.

[6] ‖  20:4.

[7] ‖  feeding of the multitudes in Mat 14:16-21, Mk 6:37-44, 8:19-20, Lk 9:13-17, Jn 6:5-13; Gospel of the Twelve Apostles (Coptic), fragment 2 (in Patrologia Orientalis II:133-134); cf the twelve baskets with the twelve loaves of Temple shewbread & the manna (Ex 25:30, Lev 24:5-9, Jn 6:31, Heb 9:2,4, Rev 2:17); see discussion in Nibley Since Cumorah 123,200-202; see also at 19:5.

[8] saith P 1830; said P^c 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[9] ordained  P  1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[10] brake P; break 1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[11] ‖  vs 3, Moroni 4:3 ‖  D&C 20:77.

[12] they which p   1830; those who Pc 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1908; cf vs 11.

[13] baptized P 1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[14] ‖  Didache 9:5, "And let none eat or drink of your eucharist, but those baptized into [the] name of [the] Lord"; cf vss 28-30.

[15] gave P 1830 thru 1879, RLDS 1908; given 1911 1920 1981.

[16] ‖  vss 10-11, Mosiah 5:11-12, Moroni 4:3 ‖  D&C 20:77; cf Mosiah 5:15.

[17] had P 1830 thru 1841, RLDS 1908; deleted 1852 thru 1981.

[18] ‖  20:5.

[19] disciples 1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908; disipels P.

[20] saith P 1830; said 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[21] ‖  Mosiah 5:5, Moroni 4:3.

[22] unto P 1830, RLDS 1908; to 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1874.

[23] ‖  vs 7, Mosiah 5:11-12, Moroni 5:2 ‖ D&C 20:79; cf 20:7-8, Mosiah 5:5,15.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

The great Jewish scholar Solomon Zeitlin, "Jesus and the Last Supper," Jewish Quarterly Review, 38/4 (April 1948):460 , says at the close, that

Quote

Not only was pascha (Easter) celebrated at the same time as Passover among the Jews, but its origin is very much interwoven with Passover.  Even the institution of the Eucharist [Thanks] is really based on the Jewish custom during the Second Commonwealth of giving thanks to God on the first night of Passover for their redemption, over unleavened bread and a cup of wine.  The writings of Philo were a further stimulus to the institution of the Eucharist.

As to LDS use of the term “sacrament,” Zeitlin points out that Sacramentum is the Latin equivalent of NT Greek mysterion (Col 1:27, I Tim 3:9,16).  George Mendenhall, Ancient Israel’s Faith and History (Westminster John Knox, 2001), 226-229, sees the Eucharist as a loyalty-oath, including symbolic oath-taking (as suggested by Latin sacramentum = Hebrew זכר zakar [Aramaic dakar & Arabic dakar] “remember, swear an oath,” and by LDS Sacrament as remembrance and renewal of covenant), and a ritual act of identification, via the very ancient mode of “ritual consumption of bread and wine” (citing ARM 8:13; El Amarna 162; ANET³ 532, 536, 539; Pliny the Younger, Letters, 10:96-97 se sacramento obstringere “bound themselves with an oath” (just as Roman soldiers swore a loyalty oath to the Emperor); Justin Martyr, Apology, I, 66, 3; Didache 9:1-5; I Cor 11:29-30 punishment for breach of oath of allegiance).

Edited December 19, 2021 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

duplicate

Edited December 19, 2021 by Robert F. Smith

[JustAnAustralian]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Jack Welch has even taken the origins of this ordinance back to Mosiah 5 in his “Our Nephite Sacramental Prayers,” FARMS Update, June 1986,

I'd never made that connection before (or thought of going further back in the Book of Mormon). Thanks.

[teddyaware]

8 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

So the sacrament prayers that we use week to week are those found in D&C 20:77,79 which are the same as those found in Moroni 4:3 and 5:2.
Moroni is setting down what was described in 3 Ne 18:7 and 3 Ne 18:11

3 Nephi 18 sacrament prayer descriptions

Moroni puts them as

 

In the 3Ne verses the commandments bit is associated with the water prayer, but by the time of Moroni has shifted into the bread prayer. Does anyone here know of any scriptural analysis of where this change might have actually come into play?

In verse 10 of Moroni 18, the Savior is referring to the entire ordinance of the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper, both the blessing on the bread and the blessing on the wine, not just to the blessing on the bread.

10 And when the Disciples had done this (I.e. administered the entire ordinance of the sacrament, both bread and wine), Jesus said unto them: Blessed are ye for this thing (the entire ordinance) which ye have done, for this (the entire ordinance) is fulfilling my commandments, and this (the entire ordinance) doth witness unto the Father that ye are willing to do that which I have commanded you.

Simple as that.

[JustAnAustralian]

8 hours ago, teddyaware said:

In verse 10 of Moroni 18, the Savior is referring to the entire ordinance of the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper, both the blessing on the bread and the blessing on the wine, not just to the blessing on the bread.

Except that verse 11 is specifically talking remembrance of his blood. So it makes no sense that he would use two sentences talking about everything and then go back to just the blood again. (Remember that versification wasn't in the original -- see https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/497 for the 1830 edition page)

At some point the commandment keeping (and possibly the taking his name depending on your reading) got associated with the bread specifically, rather than the wine as written, or both if as per your thoughts, it applies to both.

 

As Robert has pointed out though, the concepts go back to at least King Benjamin, so Jesus could well have been linking the emblems to what they already had.

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Except that verse 11 is specifically talking remembrance of his blood. So it makes no sense that he would use two sentences talking about everything and then go back to just the blood again. (Remember that versification wasn't in the original -- see https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/497 for the 1830 edition page)

At some point the commandment keeping (and possibly the taking his name depending on your reading) got associated with the bread specifically, rather than the wine as written, or both if as per your thoughts, it applies to both.

 

As Robert has pointed out though, the concepts go back to at least King Benjamin, so Jesus could well have been linking the emblems to what they already had.

Normally I’m much more careful to thoroughly examine the full context of a given verse by reading and analyzing the verses that precede and come after it, but this time I broke protocol and it’s plain to see you are correct. And it’s now obvious that in verse 12 when the Lord speaks of “these things” (plural), that’s when he’s actually speaking of the entire ordinance. Thanks for pointing out my error.

But I now see another point of possible explanation. It’s quite possible that when the Lord speaks of keeping his commandments in connection with partaking of the wine it’s because by obediently partaking of the wine the saints are faithfully demonstrating they are willing to keep the promise they already made to keep his commandments when they partook of the bread. In other words, by partaking of the wine the saints are almost immediately given the opportunity demonstrate fealty to the covenant of obedience that they made only moments before when partaking of the bread. So by partaking of the wine they are demonstrating, in the very same ordinance no less, that they are indeed willing to follow through with the promise of obedience that they made when they partook of the bread. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by teddyaware

[JustAnAustralian]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

So by partaking of the wine they are demonstrating, in the very same ordinance no less, that they are indeed willing to follow through with the promise of obedience that they made when they partook of the bread. 

You might be onto something there.

Linking back to J Welch's stuff, if someone has a pdf of “The Nephite Sacrament Prayers: From King Benjamin’s Speech to Moroni 4-5” (Provo: F.A.R.M.S., 1986). rather than just his trimmed down "Our Nephite Sacrament Prayers", I wouldn't mind being pointed in the right direction to get a copy.

[teddyaware]

18 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

You might be onto something there.

Linking back to J Welch's stuff, if someone has a pdf of “The Nephite Sacrament Prayers: From King Benjamin’s Speech to Moroni 4-5” (Provo: F.A.R.M.S., 1986). rather than just his trimmed down "Our Nephite Sacrament Prayers", I wouldn't mind being pointed in the right direction to get a copy.

In support of my thesis, it’s important to note in verse 10 that the Savior is testifying when the saints partake of the consecrated wine they are bearing witness, through the observable action of drinking, that they are willing to follow through on the previous covenant they made to be obedient when they partook of the bread. To reiterate, the Savior is testifying that the saints’ willingness to partake of the wine bears witness to the fact they are willing to actually keep the covenant they previously made when they partook of the bread. In other words, verse 10 is not speaking of the making a new covenant but of the keeping an earlier one. It seems the partaking of the wine is a near instantaneous opportunity to demonstrate to God and man that the saints are willing to make good on a promise that has already been made.

10 And when the disciples had done this, Jesus said unto them: Blessed are ye for this thing which ye have done, for this is FULFILLING my commandments (I.e.not making a covenant), and this doth witness unto the Father that ye are willing to do that which I have commanded you (making good on a promise).

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by teddyaware

[mfbukowski]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:00 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

You correctly label them "descriptions," because they are not prescriptive or liturgical.  They are merely descriptive, while Moroni provides the actual set, holy ordinance.

III Nephi 18:3-11,

3 and when the disciples[1] had come with the bread and wine

he took of the bread and brake[2] and blessed it[3]

and he gave unto the disciples and commanded that they should eat[4]
4 and when they had eat[5] and were filled

he commanded that they should give unto the multitude[6]
5 and when the multitude had eaten and were filled[7]

he saith[8] unto the disciples

behold there shall one be ordained[9] among you

and to him will i give power that

he shall brake[10] bread and bless it[11]

and give it unto the people of my church

unto all they which[12] shall believe and be baptized[13] in my name[14]
6 and this shall ye always observe to do even as i have done

even as i have broken bread and blessed it

and gave[15] it unto you
7 and this shall ye do in remembrance of my holy body

which i have shewn unto you

and it shall be a testimony unto the Father

that ye do always remember me

and if ye do always remember me

ye shall have my spirit to be with you[16]
8 ¶  and it came to pass that

when he had[17] said these words

he commanded his disciples

that they should take of the wine of the cup and drink of it

and that they should also give unto the multitude

that they might drink of it[18]
9 and it came to pass that they did so

and did drink of it and were filled

and they gave unto the multitude

and they did drink and they were filled
10 and when the disciples[19] had done this

Jesus saith[20] unto them

blessed are ye for this thing which ye have done

for this is fulfilling my commandments

and this doth witness unto the father

that ye are willing to do that which i have commanded you[21]
11 and this shall ye always do

unto[22] those who repent and are baptized in my name

and ye shall do it in rememberance of my blood

which i have shed for you

that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me

and if ye do always remember me

ye shall have my spirit to be with you[23]

Jack Welch has even taken the origins of this ordinance back to Mosiah 5 in his “Our Nephite Sacramental Prayers,” FARMS Update, June 1986, reprinted in Welch, ed., Reexploring the Book of Mormon: The F.A.R.M.S. Updates (FARMS/Deseret, 1992), 286-289, citing Hippolytus, Daniel 4, 35, and Origen, Leviticus 13, 3.

---

[1] disciples 1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908; desipels P sp (twice this vs; cf OED very archaic "desiple, desipil"); cf vss 1,5.

[2] brake P 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1874; break RLDS 1908; berak 1830 typo; cf vs 5.

[3] ‖  vs 5, Moroni 4:3 ‖  D&C 20:77.

[4] ‖  20:3.

[5] eat P 1830 thru 1879, RLDS 1908; eaten 1911 1920 1981, RLDS 1874 1953; ‖  vs 5, 20:4.

[6] ‖  20:4.

[7] ‖  feeding of the multitudes in Mat 14:16-21, Mk 6:37-44, 8:19-20, Lk 9:13-17, Jn 6:5-13; Gospel of the Twelve Apostles (Coptic), fragment 2 (in Patrologia Orientalis II:133-134); cf the twelve baskets with the twelve loaves of Temple shewbread & the manna (Ex 25:30, Lev 24:5-9, Jn 6:31, Heb 9:2,4, Rev 2:17); see discussion in Nibley Since Cumorah 123,200-202; see also at 19:5.

[8] saith P 1830; said P^c 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[9] ordained  P  1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[10] brake P; break 1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[11] ‖  vs 3, Moroni 4:3 ‖  D&C 20:77.

[12] they which p   1830; those who Pc 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1908; cf vs 11.

[13] baptized P 1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[14] ‖  Didache 9:5, "And let none eat or drink of your eucharist, but those baptized into [the] name of [the] Lord"; cf vss 28-30.

[15] gave P 1830 thru 1879, RLDS 1908; given 1911 1920 1981.

[16] ‖  vss 10-11, Mosiah 5:11-12, Moroni 4:3 ‖  D&C 20:77; cf Mosiah 5:15.

[17] had P 1830 thru 1841, RLDS 1908; deleted 1852 thru 1981.

[18] ‖  20:5.

[19] disciples 1830 thru 1981, RLDS 1908; disipels P.

[20] saith P 1830; said 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1908.

[21] ‖  Mosiah 5:5, Moroni 4:3.

[22] unto P 1830, RLDS 1908; to 1837 thru 1981, RLDS 1874.

[23] ‖  vs 7, Mosiah 5:11-12, Moroni 5:2 ‖ D&C 20:79; cf 20:7-8, Mosiah 5:5,15.

Wow Bob! Amazing job! Thanks!

[Robert F. Smith]

12 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Wow Bob! Amazing job! Thanks!

That's just a page  or two out of my forthcoming 3rd ed of the Book of Mormon Critical Text.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That's just a page  or two out of my forthcoming 3rd ed of the Book of Mormon Critical Text.

Excellent, looking forward to it!