CV75 Posted August 25, 2021 Posted August 25, 2021 46 minutes ago, pogi said: That is one possibility. I personally don't trust that our generation is competent enough to where they no longer need direction from a prophet in such consequential matters. Without access to good information and with the loud political noise and voices from every direction, many righteous and well intentioned members are often led astray. Many of these members pray and seek personal revelation on matters, thinking that they have received divine direction, only to find out that they have been deceived and their inspiration was clouded by political and misleading noise - often leading to regret. While personal revelation is critical, we are not there as a people to no longer need the direction of a prophet (which we can then pray and receive personal revelation/conviction of). Case in point: 5 days after this article was posted, the first presidency urged all members to get vaccinated. That direction from the prophet and first presidency may have made all the difference in the world for this family. I think we all need direction from a prophet, no matter how much companionship of the Holy Ghost we enjoy. Hinckley in that generation, Nelson in this one. I would say that most people (or members of the Church) don’t need a prophet or the Holy Ghost to tell them to get vaccinated or wear a mask (or not to). I believe the First Presidency is ministering in a higher and holier way, and teaching correct faith-based principles, but as we know, not everyone appreciates their ministering brothers or governs themselves wisely. Fortunately, this woman did, and hopefully everyone will get better at using their faith in making decisions rather than rationalizing decisions after the fact.
pogi Posted August 25, 2021 Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, CV75 said: I would say that most people (or members of the Church) don’t need a prophet or the Holy Ghost to tell them to get vaccinated or wear a mask (or not to). My ward certainly did. We went from zero masks to around 70% compliance after the prophets direction. I think it important to note that the prophet and first presidency felt compelled to give direction on this matter, probably because most people do need guidance from a prophet in regards to masks and vaccination...and one would think certainly in weightier matters such as war. 30 minutes ago, CV75 said: I believe the First Presidency is ministering in a higher and holier way, and teaching correct faith-based principles, but as we know, not everyone appreciates their ministering brothers or governs themselves wisely. Fortunately, this woman did, and hopefully everyone will get better at using their faith in making decisions rather than rationalizing decisions after the fact. In terms of war, what does this look like? Without access to confidential intelligence, how does one weigh the evidence in order to apply faith based principles in making a decision if a war is justified? We are really relying on trust of our government leaders here. Edited August 25, 2021 by pogi
CV75 Posted August 25, 2021 Posted August 25, 2021 56 minutes ago, pogi said: My ward certainly did. We went from zero masks to around 70% compliance after the prophets direction. I think it important to note that the prophet and first presidency felt compelled to give direction on this matter, probably because most people do need guidance from a prophet in regards to masks and vaccination...and one would think certainly in weightier matters such as war. In terms of war, what does this look like? Without access to confidential intelligence, how does one weigh the evidence in order to apply faith based principles in making a decision if a war is justified? We are really relying on trust of our government leaders here. I am happy for your ward. I am happy we have a prophet who meets the needs of those who need and accept him. Everyone in my ward (and stake for that matter, since these decisions are made at the area council level) has been wearing masks all along, whenever asked, since the practice has been established, lifted and reestablished again as circumstances required. We had, from my observation maybe 1% not wearing a mask (not necessarily to take a political stance). I am happier for my ward on this point of mask wearing, but just as happy that both wards have a prophet. In terms of war, I believe the First Presidency is also ministering in a higher and holier way, and teaching correct faith-based principles, but as we know, not everyone appreciates their ministering brothers or governs themselves wisely. Hopefully everyone will get better at using their faith in making decisions rather than rationalizing decisions after the fact. The importance of the companionship of the Holy Ghost is in obtaining intelligence of a certain kind when secular intelligence is not accessible due to the mortal powers that be.
bOObOO Posted August 26, 2021 Posted August 26, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, pogi said: I haven't heard anything from the apostles either in regard to the righteous justification of specific wars. Maybe because you are not a military commander who they would be speaking to, if such a commander were to ask an apostle for guidance. An apostle would have no need to tell you what he had told them. 22 hours ago, pogi said: Yes, we can receive personal revelation. But we are not all prophets that have authority from God to receive revelation for the church as a whole. Only the President of our Church has stewardship authority for the entire church, and the world in general. Are you thinking the President should report to you or to the Church as a whole when advising a military commander about what to do, if a military commander were to ask him for guidance, and if the President should advise him about what to do? 22 hours ago, pogi said: See my post to CV75 as to why I think prophetic direction would be helpful. Oh I know why it would be helpful. I think it would be absolutely terrific if the whole world were to seek prophetic direction from the President of our Church, AND all the apostles, AND through their own personal revelation from God himself. 22 hours ago, pogi said: Despite the ability to receive personal revelation, our generation is still in need of a guiding prophet. I concur, and I think everyone else should concur with that too. The more prophets we hear from the better off all of us would be, I think. 22 hours ago, pogi said: I am just curious as to why they are not as guiding in modern days as in olden days, in regards to war. I suspect prophets are either not being asked what they think or prophets are just not telling you about any counsel they have given to military commanders or the troops under their command. Or you just haven't heard them tell those who would listen. Edited August 26, 2021 by bOObOO
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