If all priesthood is Melchizedek....

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

Youi just repeated yourself, so, okay, I will just repeat myself too.

I would say no office was mentioned, specifically, but based on how we are ordained I would say they were probably ordained in the same way, first to an office before they were given keys that applied to their office.  The Priesthood of Aaron is most likely referring to the office of priest of the Aaronic order.

And you repeatedly provide no evidence.  I rarely do this but CFR or retract the claim.

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

Not this kind of priest.  This refers to the promises of the initiatory.

So you think we will be 3 different kinds of priests then?  Hmm.  That might be fun.  A priest of the Aaronic order, and a priest of the Melchizedek order, AND another kind of priest like you are imaginining. We'll see, I suppose.

[JLHPROF]

Just now, Ahab said:

So you think we will be 3 different kinds of priests then?  Hmm.  That might be fun.  A priest of the Aaronic order, and a priest of the Melchizedek order, AND another kind of priest like you are imaginining. We'll see, I suppose.

No imagination necessary.  Joseph taught this, it's a part of the historical record, and it's scriptural and it's in the temple endowment. 

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

And you repeatedly provide no evidence.  I rarely do this but CFR or retract the claim.

Did you not see this part of what I was saying? - based on how we are ordained I would say they were probably ordained in the same way.  We are ordained to an office, first, and then when we get keys, if we get keys, that comes next.

... or did you just not understand what I was saying?

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

Did you not see this part of what I was saying? - based on how we are ordained I would say they were probably ordained in the same way.  We are ordained to an office, first, and then when we get keys, if we get keys, that comes next.

... or did you just not understand what I was saying?

That only works if we didn't have a record of how they were ordained.  We have the exact words spoken.  No office was bestowed regardless of how we are ordained.

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That only works if we didn't have a record of how they were ordained.  We have the exact words spoken.  No office was bestowed regardless of how we are ordained.

Please review the details of what any man receives and the duties he is responsible/accountable for when he is ordained to the office of priest in the Aaronic order, and then tell me if you think JS and OC got anything extra from John (the Baptist).

I mean, aside from the fact that it was John (the Baptist) appearing as an angel to give them what he gave them, rather than just a regular mortal with that priesthood who had not died yet.

[JLHPROF]

22 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Please review the details of what any man receives and the duties he is responsible/accountable for when he is ordained to the office of priest in the Aaronic order, and then tell me if you think JS and OC got anything extra from John (the Baptist).

I mean, aside from the fact that it was John (the Baptist) appearing as an angel to give them what he gave them, rather than just a regular mortal with that priesthood who had not died yet.

How about the keys to preside over the Aaronic Priesthood.

D&C 107:13 The second priesthood is called the Priesthood of Aaron, because it was conferred upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations.
            14 Why it is called the lesser priesthood is because it is an appendage to the greater, or the Melchizedek Priesthood, and has power in administering outward ordinances.
            15 The bishopric is the presidency of this priesthood, and holds the keys or authority of the same.
            16 No man has a legal right to this office, to hold the keys of this priesthood, except he be a literal descendant of Aaron.
            17 But as a high priest of the Melchizedek Priesthood has authority to officiate in all the lesser offices, he may officiate in the office of bishop when no literal descendant of Aaron can be found, provided he is called and set apart and ordained unto this power by the hands of the Presidency of the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Joseph and Oliver were given all the keys of the priesthood of Aaron without restriction to office.  Does that include the Bishopric or was that not restored until the Melchizedek priesthood was?  It's an Aaronic office technically.

Or what about the High Priest of Aaron?  Could Joseph have functioned in that office after the Aaronic Priesthood was restored?

Or perhaps the entire Aaronic Priesthood wasn't restored at that time?

[Ahab]

18 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

How about the keys to preside over the Aaronic Priesthood.

D&C 107:13 The second priesthood is called the Priesthood of Aaron, because it was conferred upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations.
            14 Why it is called the lesser priesthood is because it is an appendage to the greater, or the Melchizedek Priesthood, and has power in administering outward ordinances.
            15 The bishopric is the presidency of this priesthood, and holds the keys or authority of the same.
            16 No man has a legal right to this office, to hold the keys of this priesthood, except he be a literal descendant of Aaron.
            17 But as a high priest of the Melchizedek Priesthood has authority to officiate in all the lesser offices, he may officiate in the office of bishop when no literal descendant of Aaron can be found, provided he is called and set apart and ordained unto this power by the hands of the Presidency of the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Joseph and Oliver were given all the keys of the priesthood of Aaron without restriction to office.  Does that include the Bishopric or was that not restored until the Melchizedek priesthood was?  It's an Aaronic office technically.

I would say, as I said before, that JS and OC were ordained to the office of priest and not the office of bishop because, according to verses 15 and 16 above, JS and OC had no legal right to that office or those keys, unless maybe they were literal descendants of Aaron. But I don't think they were.  So to officiate in the office of bishop with those keys they would have needed to wait until they were ordained to the higher order and given the keys of that higher order of priesthood.

18 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Or what about the High Priest of Aaron?  Could Joseph have functioned in that office after the Aaronic Priesthood was restored?

The high priest of the Aaronic order is, in other words, the presiding bishop of the Church.  So unless JS and OC were literal descendants of Aaron they would have had no legal right to hold that office.

18 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Or perhaps the entire Aaronic Priesthood wasn't restored at that time?

Now I think you may be getting the idea I have been trying to share with you.

[JAHS]

On 2/3/2021 at 7:22 PM, JAHS said:

1. Joseph Smith said  "All priesthood is Melchizedek". 
He also said it is “after the order of the Son of God, and all other priesthoods are only parts,
ramifications, powers and blessings belonging to the same and are held, controlled, and
directed by it. “ (Joseph Smith.)

If the Aaronic priesthood is part of the Melchizedek priesthood, why is the Melchizedek priesthood conferred on us again when we become elders?
I have heard a few people claim that earlier in the history of the church (1921 - 1957) when a person became an elder the 
Melchizedek priesthood was not conferred on a person when he was ordained an elder (or at least the word "confer" was not used), 
he was just ordained an elder in the Melchizedek priesthood. This actually makes some sense if all priesthood is Melchizedek.

 

 I found a little more about this issue. During the presidency of Heber J. Grant (1918-1945), the official policy specified that a direct ordination to office in the Priesthood was all that was really required and that conferring of the Priesthood was a redundant, if not presumptuous, part of the ordinance. George Albert Smith (1945-1951) cautiously removed specificity in the ordinances as a general policy, thereby permitting either form to be used (see Deseret News, Dec. 27, 1947; also Truth 14:12).

Letter from the First Presidency;
"Conferring the Priesthood. To prevent disputes over this subject that may arise over the procedure presented on page 136, we draw attention to the fact that until recently, from the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith, ordinations to the Priesthood were directly to the office therein for which the recipient was chosen and appointed, in form substantially as follows:

As to the Melchizedek Priesthood---"By authority (or in the authority) of the Holy Priesthood and by the laying on of hands, I (or we) ordain you an Elder, (or Seventy, or High Priest, or Patriarch, or Apostle, as the case may be), in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and confer upon you all the rights, powers, keys and authority pertaining to this office and calling on the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Amen."

As to the Lesser Priesthood---"By (or in) the authority of the Holy Priesthood I (or we) lay my (or our) hands upon your head and ordain you a Deacon (or other office in the Lesser Priesthood) in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and confer upon you All the rights, powers, and authority pertaining to this office and calling in the Aaronic Priesthood, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Amen." In reference to the form of procedure mentioned on page 136, and that set forth in this addendum as adopted by the leading authorities of the Church from the beginning, our beloved and departed President, Joseph F. Smith, when questioned concerning them, decided, as of record, "It is a distinction without a difference," and "Either will do."

Persons, therefore, who have been ordained in either way hold the right to officiate in all the duties of their respective offices in the Priesthood."
Heber J. Grant
Anthon H. Lund
Charles W. Penrose
(Gospel Doctrine, by Joseph F. Smith, Addenda A.)

So at this time the priesthood was not directly conferred but the right, powers, keys and authority pertaining to the office were conferred.

President Joseph F. Smith wrote this letter regarding the issue:

This is in answer to yours of the 1st inst. The Lord has given us no particular form for ordination to the Priesthood, and the Church recognizes none. Moroni in the first three verses of the third chapter of the Book of Moroni, gives the manner which the disciples on this continent ordained Priests and Teachers; and we may add that the same simple manner would apply to all the other offices in the Priesthood.

It is our understanding that when a person is ordained a Deacon, with all that pertains to that office sealed upon him, it is tantamount to conferring upon him the Aaronic Priesthood, and ordaining him to the office of Deacon. And so also in regard to the ordination of an Elder. When a man is ordained an Elder it is understood that the Melchizedek Priesthood is conferred upon him whether the officiating Elder expresses that fact or not in the ordination; and it is by virtue and authority of this Priesthood that the Elder performs the duties of his office.

Brethren have been criticized for using this language "we lay our hands upon your head to ordain you, etc.," because the language fails to express the full intent of the officiating Elder, and for that reason brethren have been instructed to use the word "and" in that connection instead of the word "to."

Of course all ordinations are not worded alike, and it may be true also that some ordinations may be somewhat defective, grammatically or otherwise, in fully expressing their full scope and meaning but while it is true that the Lord accepts of the intent, it is nevertheless true also that officiating elders should learn to express themselves as fully and clearly as possible in ordaining to the Priesthood as well as in the performance of every other duty or labor.
Your Brethren,
Joseph F. Smith
John R. Winder
Anthon H. Lund
First Presidency(5)

So there has been some confusion as to the proper way it should be done.