Sin, Repentance, Forgiveness

[Joshua Valentine]

The mere fact that D&C 82:7 is so often quoted with no explanation indicates that there is no trick to understanding it.

7 And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.
 

This clearly states that ¨the Lord¨  will not charge you with any sin as you sin no more. This is a description of the LDS concept of repentance - sinning no more. Then the verse continues in contrast to this scenario ¨but unto that soul who sinneth¨ so if you sin again (after God has not charged sin against you), the former sins return (the sins that were not laid at your charge or the sins you formerly repented of) are once again charged against you.

The syntax is clear. The LDS leadership have seen no need to clarify anything - because they think it´s clear.

8 hours ago, Gillebre said:

When the Lord forgives and repentance is complete, but you fall again, are you repenting from the fresh start the Savior so mercifully provided?

D&C 82:7 simply says that after you sin again a formerly ¨repented¨ sin then your formerly ¨repented¨ sins are once again held against you. This is an accounting issue not a description of your subjective experience. Thus, whether you experience

 

8 hours ago, Gillebre said:

the weight, burden, and guilt of every past same sin rushes back as if you never repented of it at all.

is a completely different issue that this verse does not deal with.  Although, I have found no instance of this being taught by LDS leadership.

 

Now for this question:

8 hours ago, Gillebre said:

Or are you again repenting of a now larger stack of the same sin?

D&C 82:7 is simply an accounting issue. But whether you have to re-repent of all the previous instances of the same sin, is not part of D&C 82:7.  And Rain´s staircase metaphor and The Nehor´s metaphor of a returned cancer would seem to be apt metaphors for the subjective experience - it´s not that you have to restep the previous flights of stairs all over again, but that you still have yet to fully scale the flights you thought you had finished - instead of having finished with the ¨last step¨ you tripped over it later (to realize you had never completed repentance after all). It´s not that you suddenly have all your previously killed cancerous cells back and have to kill them all over - for you as a repenter, you did not fully repent (beat the cancer) or you would not have sinned the same sin again (the cancer would not have relapsed - some of the cancer cells/sin remained after treatment/repentance). In this way, it is clear, somewhat as The Nehor pointed out but differently, if the cancer relapsed then you were never fully cured, if you sinned the same sin again, then you never actually repented, which is in-line with LDS teaching:

Confirmation of the straightforward interpretation of D&C 82:7 and that sinning again is proof of never completely repenting:

Quote

 

A fourth ingredient: There must be total abandonment of the sin. All too often I see those who have repented slip sometime later into their old sinful ways. When that happens, previously repented sins return to those who perhaps did not really repent after all. We read: “I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God” (D&C 82:7).

-Elder Jeppsen, April 1994 General Conference
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1994/04/a-divine-prescription-for-spiritual-healing?lang=eng

 

 

 

To sin again is to have the formerly ¨repented¨ sins be accounted back to you (as if you never repented).

Quote

Likewise, repentance must be consistent and continuous. To repent of a sin and then to tamper with it again or permit it to invade, even slightly, is to lose the repentance and its beneficent effects, and “the former sins return, saith the Lord God.” (D&C 82:7.)

https://www.lds.org/study/new-era/1974/05/what-is-true-repentance?lang=eng

Note: I am not an LDS Christian and so do not believe these teachings, but they seem clearly laid out.

Edited: to clean up the last quote

Edited April 15, 2019 by Joshua Valentine

[Joshua Valentine]

6 hours ago, CV75 said:

As long as you don't give up, no matter how many times you stumble, success through the grace of Christ is inevitable. I hope that doesn't sound like a fortune cookie. A continued or even compounded sense of guilt for repeat offenses after a period of sincere repentance is a sign of retained or even increased sensitivity to the Spirit since the conscience has not been seared with a hot iron or beyond feeling. Just keep doing good wherever you can.

A couple of quotes that confirm and challenge this thought:

Confirming:

Quote

 

The road to forgiveness is through repentance, and the road to repentance is through suffering, and that road must be kept open. Otherwise, the transgressions will invade and finally absorb again.

...

Likewise, repentance must be consistent and continuous. To repent of a sin and then to tamper with it again or permit it to invade, even slightly, is to lose the repentance and its beneficent effects, and “the former sins return, saith the Lord God.” (D&C 82:7.)

https://www.lds.org/study/new-era/1974/05/what-is-true-repentance?lang=eng

 

 

Challenging:

Quote

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-and-doctrine-of-the-book-of-mormon-teacher-manual/lesson-16-repentance-and-forgiveness?lang=eng

 

Forgiveness of sins brings feelings of joy and peace

• How might you respond to individuals who want to know how they can know whether they have been forgiven of a past sin?

Invite students to search Enos 1:4–8; Mosiah 4:1–3; and Alma 36:19–21, looking for ways in which people can know they are receiving a remission of their sins.

• According to these verses, how can we know that we are receiving a remission of our sins? (Help students identify the following principle: As we sincerely repent and receive a remission of our sins, our guilt is swept away, we are filled with the Spirit of the Lord, and we feel joy and peace. As prompted by the Spirit, you might share the following statement by Elder Neil L. Andersen of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles: “For those who are truly repentant but seem unable to feel relief: continue keeping the commandments. I promise you, relief will come in the timetable of the Lord. Healing also requires time” [“Repent … That I May Heal You,” Ensign or Liahona, Nov. 2009, 42].)

 

 

 

[thatjimguy]

I think returning to sin, in this case, is akin to "going back to your old ways" and not a strand of hiccups.

 It is not about sinning because someone is weak at times. It about starting to abandon the light on a consistent basis because they are starting to give up as if it doesn;t matter anymore.

[CV75]

6 hours ago, Joshua Valentine said:

A couple of quotes that confirm and challenge this thought:
Confirming:

Challenging:

I think they work together as a matter of timing and where we are along the continuum to perfection.

[Duncan]

9 hours ago, Joshua Valentine said:

The mere fact that D&C 82:7 is so often quoted with no explanation indicates that there is no trick to understanding it.

7 And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.
 

This clearly states that ¨the Lord¨  will not charge you with any sin as you sin no more. This is a description of the LDS concept of repentance - sinning no more. Then the verse continues in contrast to this scenario ¨but unto that soul who sinneth¨ so if you sin again (after God has not charged sin against you), the former sins return (the sins that were not laid at your charge or the sins you formerly repented of) are once again charged against you.

The syntax is clear. The LDS leadership have seen no need to clarify anything - because they think it´s clear.

D&C 82:7 simply says that after you sin again a formerly ¨repented¨ sin then your formerly ¨repented¨ sins are once again held against you. This is an accounting issue not a description of your subjective experience. Thus, whether you experience

 

is a completely different issue that this verse does not deal with.  Although, I have found no instance of this being taught by LDS leadership.

 

Now for this question:

D&C 82:7 is simply an accounting issue. But whether you have to re-repent of all the previous instances of the same sin, is not part of D&C 82:7.  And Rain´s staircase metaphor and The Nehor´s metaphor of a returned cancer would seem to be apt metaphors for the subjective experience - it´s not that you have to restep the previous flights of stairs all over again, but that you still have yet to fully scale the flights you thought you had finished - instead of having finished with the ¨last step¨ you tripped over it later (to realize you had never completed repentance after all). It´s not that you suddenly have all your previously killed cancerous cells back and have to kill them all over - for you as a repenter, you did not fully repent (beat the cancer) or you would not have sinned the same sin again (the cancer would not have relapsed - some of the cancer cells/sin remained after treatment/repentance). In this way, it is clear, somewhat as The Nehor pointed out but differently, if the cancer relapsed then you were never fully cured, if you sinned the same sin again, then you never actually repented, which is in-line with LDS teaching:

Confirmation of the straightforward interpretation of D&C 82:7 and that sinning again is proof of never completely repenting:

To sin again is to have the formerly ¨repented¨ sins be accounted back to you (as if you never repented).

Note: I am not an LDS Christian and so do not believe these teachings, but they seem clearly laid out.

Edited: to clean up the last quote

Why don't you believe this? Isn't this how it is in other Churches? Even the Law says if you keep getting caught doing the same thing it's worse than the first time you got caught, i.e. a first time DUI is not as bad as your tenth time getting caught (clearly the driver isn't getting the message) Do you believe you can do whatever you want and hope God forgives you with no remorse on your part, no attempt to overcome your sins, behaviours which led to it in the first place?

Edited April 15, 2019 by Duncan