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Bridge Building and Nation Healing


Word Chaser

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Folks, there has to be a way made for the mainline LDS, Community of Christ and Christian denominations to have serious conversations. Forgive the noun usage, just as you all view yourselves as Christian, I view myself as Latter Day Saint, because I believe that we are all saints in these latter days regardless of religious affiliation. The resistance is equal on both sides of the aisle...the name calling, finger pointing, and chest pounding needs to come to an end immediately. The infighting among God's people, when He came for ALL, is just plain ridiculous. No one is better than another and we all have something to teach as well as something to learn from each other, but sometimes it means questioning old commonly held belief systems that will make both camps uncomfortable. The key to this discussion is to start with the premise 1. You don't know it all 2. Other people, including prophets, don't know it all 3. the Bible is fact 4. The Book of Mormon is fact 5. Joseph Smith was a true prophet called by Jesus Christ 6.The Doctrines and Covenants are accurate and a confirming source, with the exception of D & C 138 (my opinion based on my research)--no thank you "Joseph Fielding Smith."

Saints, it's time we really start talking.... 

Below is an email I sent out recently to some of colleagues....  It may make you uncomfortable, but before you react.... Pray and think about it.... Hugs....

GET OVER YOUR RELIGIOUS SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS

An Email Sent to Some of My Ministry Colleagues

All of this is about getting a conversation started for all of Christ’s people…..Not just Jews or Christians or Mormons or Muslims. Group conversation, iron sharpening iron. The Mormons think they have it, and look at the rest of us as idiots. The Jews think they know it all. The Christians think everyone else is deceived. The Muslims, well, Ishmael was a wild *** of a man. Allah will reveal himself to the Muslims, in His time, as Jesus Christ. Allah is such a non specific name in Arabic for a reason. God has been planning this since before time began. Guess what, Allah reveals himself as Jesus Christ and the Quran gets cleaned up of all the anger and bad theology placed within its pages by Mohammad because of his frustrations with the Jews during his time. It is the same thing with the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith said that if there is error in the Book of Mormon it was placed there by man, NOT God. The Key to tracing God’s activity versus Eve’s activity (theology of the world) in all these books is LOVE! And yes, The Father has released the location for His Son’s return, but not the date or time. Why is this so hard for people? We knew the end was coming. We’ve been taught this in our churches. Remember Christ said that these things come to pass according to His Father’s will, not that they would never come to fruition or that The Father would never reveal the information. NO! Christ said according to The Father’s will and The Father has released the location to shake His people awake and to cause them to start a discussion before it is too late.

When Christ announces His return, like it says in the Bible, everyone will know. It’s a global announcement. God does nothing in secret, but He cautions us that until the appropriate time don’t go looking for Him. There will be many false Christ’s until the appointed time when the Son announces His return in accordance to The Father’s will….. Sifting wheat from chaff….

I just wish people would look, talk, pray, and research.

Everyone assumes, not that God says it, that Christ is returning in the Middle East. That is not scriptural. The Councils of 325 and 381 really hurt the Christian Nation. How is it we look at those councils as God’s Word when they were people too….fallen, like the rest of us, having fallen short of the Glory of God? We make ourselves god’s thinking we have it figured out and making all kinds of assumptions about how this is "supposed" to play out.

It’s like, Hello!

In their self righteousness many will be deceived.

Sigh

It is extremely frustrating trying to get people to take a second look at the Bible, get off the old theological couch and consider that the Book of Mormon actually has play in end time prophecy. People don’t want to hear that Jospeh Smith, outside of those in the Mormon Church, was a true prophet. They also don’t want to believe that the Mormons have the Tree of Life (a carefully guarded secret). We all want to be right and have our ‘special status.” Self righteousness. If they would just take the time to look and do some research; rather, it’s easier to toss the baby out with the bath water. I’m one person trying to get people to pay attention and researching a theology I was not raised with. It is both a blessing and a curse. On one hand I see the Book of Mormon with a new set of eyes because I haven’t been indoctrinated by the LDS. On the other hand it is a steep learning curve.

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8 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

The Mormons think they have it, and look at the rest of us as idiots. The Jews think they know it all. The Christians think everyone else is deceived. The Muslims, well, Ishmael was a wild *** of a man.

It is probably best to not overstate/caricature others' views if you are trying to persuade them.  I know of no Saint who views nonmembers as idiots simply because they believe differently, for example.

Edited by Calm
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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Why not add to your list of premises the acceptance of Mohammed as a prophet, acceptance of the Torah as binding law, and accepting the need to escape the wheel of reincarnation?

(dryly) That's what * I * do . . . 😌

 

9 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

Folks, there has to be a way made for the mainline LDS, Community of Christ and Christian denominations to have serious conversations. Forgive the noun usage, just as you all view yourselves as Christian, I view myself as Latter Day Saint, because I believe that we are all saints in these latter days regardless of religious affiliation. The resistance is equal on both sides of the aisle...the name calling, finger pointing, and chest pounding needs to come to an end immediately. The infighting among God's people, when He came for ALL, is just plain ridiculous. No one is better than another and we all have something to teach as well as something to learn from each other, but sometimes it means questioning old commonly held belief systems that will make both camps uncomfortable. The key to this discussion is to start with the premise 1. You don't know it all 2. Other people, including prophets, don't know it all 3. the Bible is fact 4. The Book of Mormon is fact 5. Joseph Smith was a true prophet called by Jesus Christ 6.The Doctrines and Covenants are accurate and a confirming source, with the exception of D & C 138 (my opinion based on my research)--no thank you "Joseph Fielding Smith."

Saints, it's time we really start talking.... 

Below is an email I sent out recently to some of colleagues....  It may make you uncomfortable, but before you react.... Pray and think about it.... Hugs....

GET OVER YOUR RELIGIOUS SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS

An Email Sent to Some of My Ministry Colleagues

All of this is about getting a conversation started for all of Christ’s people…..Not just Jews or Christians or Mormons or Muslims. Group conversation, iron sharpening iron. The Mormons think they have it, and look at the rest of us as idiots. The Jews think they know it all. The Christians think everyone else is deceived. The Muslims, well, Ishmael was a wild *** of a man. Allah will reveal himself to the Muslims, in His time, as Jesus Christ. Allah is such a non specific name in Arabic for a reason. God has been planning this since before time began. Guess what, Allah reveals himself as Jesus Christ and the Quran gets cleaned up of all the anger and bad theology placed within its pages by Mohammad because of his frustrations with the Jews during his time. It is the same thing with the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith said that if there is error in the Book of Mormon it was placed there by man, NOT God. The Key to tracing God’s activity versus Eve’s activity (theology of the world) in all these books is LOVE! And yes, The Father has released the location for His Son’s return, but not the date or time. Why is this so hard for people? We knew the end was coming. We’ve been taught this in our churches. Remember Christ said that these things come to pass according to His Father’s will, not that they would never come to fruition or that The Father would never reveal the information. NO! Christ said according to The Father’s will and The Father has released the location to shake His people awake and to cause them to start a discussion before it is too late.

When Christ announces His return, like it says in the Bible, everyone will know. It’s a global announcement. God does nothing in secret, but He cautions us that until the appropriate time don’t go looking for Him. There will be many false Christ’s until the appointed time when the Son announces His return in accordance to The Father’s will….. Sifting wheat from chaff….

I just wish people would look, talk, pray, and research.

Everyone assumes, not that God says it, that Christ is returning in the Middle East. That is not scriptural. The Councils of 325 and 381 really hurt the Christian Nation. How is it we look at those councils as God’s Word when they were people too….fallen, like the rest of us, having fallen short of the Glory of God? We make ourselves god’s thinking we have it figured out and making all kinds of assumptions about how this is "supposed" to play out.

It’s like, Hello!

In their self righteousness many will be deceived.

Sigh

It is extremely frustrating trying to get people to take a second look at the Bible, get off the old theological couch and consider that the Book of Mormon actually has play in end time prophecy. People don’t want to hear that Jospeh Smith, outside of those in the Mormon Church, was a true prophet. They also don’t want to believe that the Mormons have the Tree of Life (a carefully guarded secret). We all want to be right and have our ‘special status.” Self righteousness. If they would just take the time to look and do some research; rather, it’s easier to toss the baby out with the bath water. I’m one person trying to get people to pay attention and researching a theology I was not raised with. It is both a blessing and a curse. On one hand I see the Book of Mormon with a new set of eyes because I haven’t been indoctrinated by the LDS. On the other hand it is a steep learning curve.

I love your passion.  Thanks for sharing it with us.  Thankfully you only have to do yourself, not the rest of us (speaking of all humanity).  For me, it's exhausting enough to do me! ha ha.

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9 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

The infighting among God's people, when He came for ALL, is just plain ridiculous. No one is better than another and we all have something to teach as well as something to learn from each other

Indeed.

9 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

God’s activity versus Eve’s activity (theology of the world)

Um . . . I would say that if one has no understanding of Eve and her "activity", then they have a lesser understanding of God's activity.  Good news is that God teaches his own children through the scriptures, based on what they are capable of comprehending, and that we can trust that process even if we have different conclusions.  It's not about right and wrong, but what one is ready for and what would bless one at a given time.  So I do agree with you that in considering what others might have learned, that point of view ought to be soaked in love.

9 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

When Christ announces His return, like it says in the Bible, everyone will know. It’s a global announcement. Everyone assumes, not that God says it, that Christ is returning in the Middle East.

I've never heard the middle east as Christ's arrival.  Isaiah 40:5, D&C 101:23 . . . all flesh shall see him together.  So I agree with you.

9 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

It is extremely frustrating trying to get people to take a second look at the Bible

Thankfully, you don't have to.  Not really your job.  You just get to look at the Bible yourself a second time, third time, three hundredth time . . . and me too.  But we don't have to herd others.

9 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

They also don’t want to believe that the Mormons have the Tree of Life (a carefully guarded secret).

I'm pretty sure the Tree of Life is much bigger than that, and could hardly be "had" by anyone.

 

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21 hours ago, Calm said:

It is probably best to not overstate/caricature others' views if you are trying to persuade them.  I know of no Saint who views nonmembers as idiots simply because they believe differently, for example.

I've had a different experience....but I see your point....

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18 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Indeed.

Um . . . I would say that if one has no understanding of Eve and her "activity", then they have a lesser understanding of God's activity.  Good news is that God teaches his own children through the scriptures, based on what they are capable of comprehending, and that we can trust that process even if we have different conclusions.  It's not about right and wrong, but what one is ready for and what would bless one at a given time.  So I do agree with you that in considering what others might have learned, that point of view ought to be soaked in love.

I've never heard the middle east as Christ's arrival.  Isaiah 40:5, D&C 101:23 . . . all flesh shall see him together.  So I agree with you.

Thankfully, you don't have to.  Not really your job.  You just get to look at the Bible yourself a second time, third time, three hundredth time . . . and me too.  But we don't have to herd others.

I'm pretty sure the Tree of Life is much bigger than that, and could hardly be "had" by anyone.

 

The Three of Life is actually a living entity...kind of like the Ark....can you see anything scripturally that would say otherwise?

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18 hours ago, Maidservant said:

(dryly) That's what * I * do . . . 😌

 

I love your passion.  Thanks for sharing it with us.  Thankfully you only have to do yourself, not the rest of us (speaking of all humanity).  For me, it's exhausting enough to do me! ha ha.

Hugs...I love conversation....I have done a lot of research and I am willing to share....but it's not for the faint of heart....they must be theologically sound, prayerful and willing to research....

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18 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Indeed.

Um . . . I would say that if one has no understanding of Eve and her "activity", then they have a lesser understanding of God's activity.  Good news is that God teaches his own children through the scriptures, based on what they are capable of comprehending, and that we can trust that process even if we have different conclusions.  It's not about right and wrong, but what one is ready for and what would bless one at a given time.  So I do agree with you that in considering what others might have learned, that point of view ought to be soaked in love.

I've never heard the middle east as Christ's arrival.  Isaiah 40:5, D&C 101:23 . . . all flesh shall see him together.  So I agree with you.

Thankfully, you don't have to.  Not really your job.  You just get to look at the Bible yourself a second time, third time, three hundredth time . . . and me too.  But we don't have to herd others.

I'm pretty sure the Tree of Life is much bigger than that, and could hardly be "had" by anyone.

 

As far as Eve....this is a bit more controversial for a lot of Book of Mormon believers....less so for the Bible thumpers....because it goes all the way back to Brigham Young and Joseph Fielding Smith....NOT Joseph Smith Jr....a true prophet...

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18 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Indeed.

Um . . . I would say that if one has no understanding of Eve and her "activity", then they have a lesser understanding of God's activity.  Good news is that God teaches his own children through the scriptures, based on what they are capable of comprehending, and that we can trust that process even if we have different conclusions.  It's not about right and wrong, but what one is ready for and what would bless one at a given time.  So I do agree with you that in considering what others might have learned, that point of view ought to be soaked in love.

I've never heard the middle east as Christ's arrival.  Isaiah 40:5, D&C 101:23 . . . all flesh shall see him together.  So I agree with you.

Thankfully, you don't have to.  Not really your job.  You just get to look at the Bible yourself a second time, third time, three hundredth time . . . and me too.  But we don't have to herd others.

I'm pretty sure the Tree of Life is much bigger than that, and could hardly be "had" by anyone.

 

the return of Christ in the Middle East is a misnomer among many lay people in mainline Christian denominations.....its a failure in our priesthood....

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Just now, Word Chaser said:

the return of Christ in the Middle East is a misnomer among many lay people in mainline Christian denominations.....its a failure in our priesthood....

It is for this reason we turn to Jesus Christ....many of our teachers, pastors, ministers....etc...have failed to education the congregations....get em in....get em saved...pay your 10 percent....and leave em in the pews... We aren't very good at discipleship...

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21 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Why not add to your list of premises the acceptance of Mohammed as a prophet, acceptance of the Torah as binding law, and accepting the need to escape the wheel of reincarnation?

It's funny our interpretations of things....Look at the Book of Mormon.....Doctrines and Covenants....us reincarnations so weird...you just use different terms...  How's this...resurrection.... 

Torah as law? What do you think the "Iron Rod" represents in 1 Nephi 8...the Path represents Jesus Christ (The Way, The Truth and The Life), and Lehi didn't take ahold of the "iron rod." Lehi had simple faith.... Look at what happened to those who did take ahold of the "Iron Rod"--not good.... Love for the Lord and Faith are the keys to 1 Nephi 8....stay on The Path....and have some fruit too...

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1 minute ago, Word Chaser said:

It's funny our interpretations of things....Look at the Book of Mormon.....Doctrines and Covenants....us reincarnations so weird...you just use different terms...  How's this...resurrection.... 

Torah as law? What do you think the "Iron Rod" represents in 1 Nephi 8...the Path represents Jesus Christ (The Way, The Truth and The Life), and Lehi didn't take ahold of the "iron rod." Lehi had simple faith.... Look at what happened to those who did take ahold of the "Iron Rod"--not good.... Love for the Lord and Faith are the keys to 1 Nephi 8....stay on The Path....and have some fruit too...

I dislike misspellings.....hold on.....It's funny our interpretations of things....Look at the Book of Mormon.....Doctrines and Covenants....is reincarnation so weird.....you just use different terms...  

How's this...resurrection.... 

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19 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

The Three of Life is actually a living entity...kind of like the Ark....can you see anything scripturally that would say otherwise?

I see the Old Testament (and all scripture) as template.  Thus what can be learned regarding the Tree of Life would be a learning regarding the template of the Tree of Life.  It is not one of my personal deep studies, so I cannot say more.  On the other hand, I have pondered the Tree of Life on and off for my entire life.  My best description of what the Tree of Life is, is first of all . . . everything . . . and second of all a state or condition that each of us may participate in.  I have a suspicion that one major aspect of that condition (the Tree of Life) is the union of man and woman. Thus, it was the re-union of Adam and Eve that they could look forward to.  Keeping in mind that often I don't know that Adam and Eve represent man and woman, actual, but rather aspects of ourselves.  I don't think that scripture, ESPECIALLY the Eden store, presents just one reality, but allows us to explore whatever reality we are ready for and that would bless us.  I like that you've tied the Tree of Life to the Ark, I will ponder on that more.

I also think that a person can read a book too much and too long and never look up and see the Book that is written all around them (i.e. the Tree of Life).  So I have a basic challenge to anything written as something we are bound by.  If something written has any value, it is only because it can represent and connect us to what is the reality of the Book of our own life.

19 hours ago, Word Chaser said:

Hugs...I love conversation....I have done a lot of research and I am willing to share....but it's not for the faint of heart....they must be theologically sound, prayerful and willing to research....

Nice to meet you 😊.

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