Stargazer Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 20 hours ago, jbarm said: I don't understand why you hang out on this forum just to point out your disbelief. Why do believers hang out on this forum, except to point out their belief? It's not MY board, but I think I can freely say that the board does not exist to provide a bully pulpit only to those who believe -- there would be no point at all to come here if that was all it was. It would be just like all the anti-LDS sites out there that drive all believers out, where the unbelievers can gripe and complain with no one to contradict them. A safe place, to be sure, but nobody participating in such conditions has much hope of learning anything. Even though I frequently disagree with Jeanne on matters relating to the LDS church, I am happy she continues to post here, and I try to respect her and others who share her opinions (I don't always succeed). I suggest you try to do the same! 3
Stargazer Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 16 hours ago, Jeanne said: I don't understand it either. I apologize for being here..I know that there is no else on the board like me. 🤣
Popular Post ALarson Posted July 9, 2018 Popular Post Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, jbarm said: I don't understand why you hang out on this forum just to point out your disbelief. She has just as much right to be here as you do. This would be an awfully boring forum if everyone agreed and if all their beliefs were identical. Jeanne is one of the most kind and Christlike posters on here from my observations. I don't always agree with everything she posts, but that pretty much describes all member's posts. She's welcome here just like you are (as long as she follows the guidelines and that's up to the mods to enforce). Edited July 9, 2018 by ALarson 6
smac97 Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) Regarding the purported "light" manifestation at the martyrdom, Dean Jessee quotes BH Roberts as follows (p. 17): Quote Roberts regarded the incident pertaining to the suddenflash of light as "wholly apocryphal and questionable." He argued, "It is inevitable, perhaps, that something miraculous should be alleged as connected with the death of Joseph Smith that both myth and legend, those parasites of truth, should attached themselves to the Prophet's career."31 ___ 31. Brigham H. Roberts, A Comprehensive History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols. (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1930), 2:332, 334. Jessee goes on to add a few interesting points: 1. The published account appears to have been embellished by Daniels's editor, Lyman O. Littlefield. Specifically, the statement in the pamphlet that the mobbers were paralyzed/transfixed by the light ("and they all stood like marble statues, not having power to move a single limb of their bodies"). Daniels, during his testimony at the trial of the mobbers, testified as follows (quoted in Jessee's article): Quote At what time did you see this marvelous light? I saw it at the place after the shooting. How long after. A short time after. Well tell us about that light. It was like a flash of lightning there at the moment. It was not like a stre[a]k then? When he was shot did any person go up to him? Yes a young man attempted to get to him. Had he anything in his hand? He had a puter flute in his hand. Had he a bowey [k]nife in his hand? I did not see any. Did he get up to Smith? No. What stopt him? That light. How did it affect him? He did not go any further. Did he look frightened? I don't know I was very much frightened my self. Then you did not see him stand like a marble statue? No. Jessee them comments: Quote The lawyer then read fromt he Littlefiend pamphlet the statement that the men involved in the shooting were parlyzed by the light "like marble statues not having power to move a single limb of their bodies." To this Daniels responded, "I did not write that, neither did I authorise it to be written." So this discrepancy between the pamphlet and Daniels's live testimony seems a bit equivocal. Daniels indicates his editor, Littlefield, added some embellishments. Hence the discrepancy regarding the mobbers' purported reaction to the "light." 2. Jessee also notes that Daniels repudiated some embellishments by his editor, but "still claimed he saw a light." 3. Jessee also points to an interesting, albeit tenuous, bit of evidence corroborating Daniels' claim: Quote Interestingly, Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, a Mormon woman living at Pontoosuc, Illinois, in June 1844, wrote that about the time Joseph and Hyrum Smith were arrested, men from her town formed a company and went to Carthage. The morning after the Smiths were killed, eight or ten of them came to her door. "They told us that the Smiths were killed and that a great light appeared at their death. I said that should prove Joseph a true Prophet of God. O no, said one, it would only prove that God was well pleased with those that killed him."34 ___ 34. Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner Journal, p. 24, Ms, Utah State Historical Society. For me, this is a good example of something that I can take or leave. The evidence for "the light" is equivocal. It's plausible, but there are also some problems with it. At the end of the day, I am ambivalent about it. I appreciate the caution expressed by BH Roberts that we be wary of "myth and legend, those parasites of truth," that we be cautious in placing too much store in specific points in the narrative of the Restoration, particularly those points that are not particularly necessary to maintaining a testimony. In other words, no need to "gild the lilly." The lilly is beautiful enough as it is. Thanks, -Smac Edited July 9, 2018 by smac97 2
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