Paiute Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: While technically most assets can become valueless (see Enron) it takes a change in the market. No one is going to outlaw the internet. Amazon could fall but it will be because of mismanagement or better competition or some new and better idea replacing it. The difference is these have real-world causes having to do with the underlying asset. If Amazon stock becomes worthless it is because they are bankrupt and the company has no value left. If Bitcoin falls to 0 there does not need to be a rhyme or reason behind it other then people deciding not to buy in. There is no real-world reason for it to have any value. There are no assets behind it. There are no governments or other institutions behind it that need it to survive. The only people who care are those who own the internet funny money. So, LOL, I guess. Yes, but if my house or my car becomes valueless it is because the former is uninhabitable or the latter does not work. If the house is habitable it has value. If a stock falls in value a company tries to push it back up. People do react but when crypto dies there is no reaction to push it back from valueless. It becomes worthless bits of code on everyone's machines. People are going to be left holding the bag when it ends. Financial analysis is of questionable value. One of the great secrets is that many financial advisors and those who manage mutual funds stick their money in index funds while encouraging their customers to buy in to whatever they are peddling. If it was possible to judge the market in advance someone would have done it by now. Instead we have vague guesses. And most crypto prognosticators/fortune tellers forecast big gains on their blogs and internet articles. Really? Could that have something to do with owning some of that asset? Perception becomes reality.....for a while. Yes, and they are cleaning up. The fallout is already being seen amongst fools who do not know what they are doing. As most of the more esoteric cryptos are purchased with Bitcoin or Ethereum or one of the more mainstream coins it is fun to watch as people don't realize that the transaction to buy the mainstream coin and then the one to buy the even funnier internet money are both taxable transactions. Then you have some who throw money around all the time generating dozens of taxable events as they trade coins. God help those who use bots who trade automatically (that is not taking the name of God in vain that is a genuine prayer). Then, come tax time, they made some money on some sales and thus owe capital gains taxes but their portfolio fell to nothing or almost nothing in value the next year when they invest it all in the next big coin that goes nowhere. Suddenly you have people who put in $10,000, saw it shoot up to $1,00-,000, and then lose it all and are shocked to find they have tens of thousands of dollars in tax bills they cannot pay. I am probably a bad person for finding the suffering of others so amusing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2018/04/04/tax-trouble-for-certain-bitcoin-traders/#61d5b6067a72 An excerpt: What do you do, come April 17, if you made a ton of money trading crypto last year and have since lost most of it? Panic, probably. A lot of last year’s winners are in deep porridge now. They owe tax on 2017 profits. They’re losing money now, so it’s not easy to come up with the cash to pay off the IRS. As for using today’s losses to offset last year’s gains, these tax naïfs are discovering, too late, that capital loss carryovers run forward but not backward. Suppose speculator Bob turned $200,000 into $1 million in last year’s feverish market, trading all the way—in and out of Bitcoin and Ethereum and Ripple and back in again. Now Bob has $800,000 in short-term capital gain to report on Schedule D. The state and federal tax bill is going to be upwards of $300,000. The 2018 crash has shrunk Bob’s account value, let us suppose, to $300,000. If Bob sells out to pay the tax, he will have a $700,000 capital loss to claim. But he can claim the loss only against future capital gains, not past ones. Small consolation: Bob can use the $700,000 against up to $3,000 a year of ordinary income. If he throws in the towel on cryptocurrencies and goes back to his day job delivering pizzas, it will take him 234 years to catch even. Now imagine if Bob has nothing left........ So basically your earlier statements about crypto being a ponzi scheme, having no value, unable to be used to make purchases, etc., now boil down to a Forbes article with a scenario of a millionaire who can't pay a tax bill. Nor his tithing. lol Edited June 10, 2018 by Paiute
6EQUJ5 Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 10:55 AM, cinepro said: What was President Smith thinking? Is it possible that we could reach that day in 2019? What if we have reached that day and the Church leaders just haven't realized it because they haven't asked? Could we have an Official Declaration 3 on the way announcing the end of tithing due to the blessings of a higher law (i.e. compound interest)? The abolition of tithing would be disastrous for Latter-day Saints. As I often comment to my wife, "we can't afford NOT to pay tithing!" Without the ability to pay tithing, I would be deprived of the blessings of returning to the Lord a small percentage of what has been given to me.
cinepro Posted June 10, 2018 Author Posted June 10, 2018 9 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said: The abolition of tithing would be disastrous for Latter-day Saints. As I often comment to my wife, "we can't afford NOT to pay tithing!" Without the ability to pay tithing, I would be deprived of the blessings of returning to the Lord a small percentage of what has been given to me. Read the quote again. It would still be voluntary. Presumably, you would get more blessings from paying it without being told it was mandatory and linked to Temple blessings etc.
cinepro Posted June 10, 2018 Author Posted June 10, 2018 20 hours ago, Paiute said: What you said could be said of any asset. Amazon could one day go bust if the Internet is outlawed. Apple and Samsung could cease to exist if cell phones are known to cause testical and ovarian cancer. Or pants will be outlawed to have pockets. Fill in the blanks with any hypothetical. LOL! Technical charting is used to trade cryptos. Its not blind luck. People watch the prices of their assets, their house, their car, the interest rates on bank accounts, mortgages, credit cards, their salaries, their taxes, the amount of food in their pantry or years supply, the gas in their automobiles gas tank, if they plummet or rise, people react accordingly. Its called Financial Analysis. And yes the IRS has ruled cryptos to be assets for tax purposes, even if used as payments it's to be treated as a cash equivalent. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance None of those are true. Even in your insane hypothetical, without the internet, Amazon would still have a massive number of assets. Apple and Samsung make phones, but their assets comprise much, much more (and Apple even has massive cash in the bank). But no "hypothetical" is needed for Bitcoin to go to zero. It is simply a currency without the weight and power of a government to hold it up. In fact, the real proof in the pudding is the fact that your other hypotheticals for Amazon, Apple or Samsung to lose their value involve massive technological, legal or cultural shifts. Our lives would massively change in order for those companies to lose such value. But what happens if bitcoin disappears tomorrow? Other than a few people shedding some tears over "what might have been", nothing would change. It can't be compared to assets that have some value independent of their price. 2
The Nehor Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 12 hours ago, Paiute said: So basically your earlier statements about crypto being a ponzi scheme, having no value, unable to be used to make purchases, etc., now boil down to a Forbes article with a scenario of a millionaire who can't pay a tax bill. Nor his tithing. lol Still a Ponzi scheme, still has no reason to have value, value as a currency for transactions still questionable, and I had no idea I had to write 10000 words and give at least 10 documented sources on an Internet discussion forum. You should specify next time. You should also take this approach yourself which I note you did not do. Very sloppy. Go ahead and believe crypto will last and gain value forever and is a good investment. If you drank the Kool-Aid there is no helping you in any case. I will even try not to lol like an idiot or spout “I told you so” when everything crashes down at then end. No firm promises on either though. 1
Paiute Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 On 6/10/2018 at 1:05 PM, The Nehor said: Still a Ponzi scheme, still has no reason to have value, value as a currency for transactions still questionable, and I had no idea I had to write 10000 words and give at least 10 documented sources on an Internet discussion forum. You should specify next time. You should also take this approach yourself which I note you did not do. Very sloppy. Go ahead and believe crypto will last and gain value forever and is a good investment. If you drank the Kool-Aid there is no helping you in any case. I will even try not to lol like an idiot or spout “I told you so” when everything crashes down at then end. No firm promises on either though. Surely https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/04/11/banks-have-found-a-new-product-cryptocurrencies/#5d40dfed4dcc
The Nehor Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Paiute said: Surely https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2018/04/11/banks-have-found-a-new-product-cryptocurrencies/#5d40dfed4dcc In response to this author: Fascinating, banks are all taking a serious interest. How so? You are on conference calls with them about it? What are the real world results of cryptos moving into traditional banking. You do not mention any other then executives discussing possibilities. Why are you on these calls? Oh, you started a crypto currency yourself......so you have a vested interest in talking them up. You do so by suggesting traditional banking establishments are getting on board but cannot show how any traditional banking establishments are getting on board. Huh....it is almost as if you are a shill trying to build enthusiasm by writing articles to talk up vague interest in crypto up to breaking new barriers.......yeah, I am putting that article in the “meaningless” pile.
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