Scott Lloyd Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Vanguard said: This is a good story. : ) My concern with Reynolds is that with this newly found platform he may well venture into more politically charged commentary that will compel him to come out more openly against the church. There is a voracious appetite & market for all things against the church. Others will deliberately challenge him to speak more provocatively against the church. He enters tricky waters where he will probably sooner than later have to throw down the gauntlet against his faith community. And it seems he is already preparing for this... : ( I think he's further along than you realize.
ALarson Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: That's not the point, though, is it...? Just like Gladys Knight's numerous, admirable, and well-deserved awards and longevity are beside the point. Reynolds is saying that aside from Donny and Marie, he's one of the most famous (if not the most famous) Mormons in the spotlight today. In my personal experience, it's clear that a majority of LDS Youth in Utah know that Imagine Dragons are LDS or that Dan Reynolds, the lead singer of Imagine Dragons, is LDS. Most would have no idea who Gladys Knight, let alone be able to identify any songs she sings (heck... at 45, I'm not sure I can even name any she has, though I'm sure I'd recognize some when I heard them). Reynolds and his band have been on my radar for the last 9 years (which was FAR before he became anywhere NEAR associated with LGBT issues), when I moved to Utah to be close to my devout LDS kids attending school at Timpview in Provo and very much in the shadow of the very locally-popular BYU. At that time, Imagine Dragons was a fledgling local band from Provo, Utah, and they were HUGELY popular and often requested on Utah-based radio stations. (I used to be driven almost crazy by "Radioactive" and "Demons" and "On Top of the World" and "It's Time" over and over and over on the radio, but that's what my kids in their tweens and teens were loving---and I admit, I grew to love them too, and still love all of those songs... for those curious about their music, give them a try!). From those LDS members I associated with, both Provo-based high school students and BYU students viewed the group as "one of their own," an LDS success story, someone who had broke through 'the Mormon Bubble' into the mainstream and were gaining notoriety and fortune and fame, along the lines of Steve Young back in his day. I was as stunned and surprised as the next devout LDS member when Reynolds only recently started making comments in support of the LGBT community. Due to several factors, including my tragically and incredibly acrimonious divorce and it's personal affect on them, their absorption of their mother's negativity about LGBT issues, and their own social climates and religious beliefs and communities, my three kids were understandably reticent and slow in acknowledging or even accepting my sexual orientation. Imagine Dragons, however, had been my teenage son's favorite group for YEARS prior to any of the gay-affirming talk... And as one of my son's personal heroes (and also my two daughters, to a slightly lesser extent), what Dan Reynolds starting saying had a profound affect on my own kids and their openness and willingness to re-engage with both me, and, to both of our surprise, my husband, as well. Without even knowing or doing anything, from personal experience, I can say that this performer chose to advocate for extending love for LGBT members of the LDS communities, and it directly affected my family, much to my own astonishment and surprise. Yes, Gladys Knight has accolades and awards and undeniable and admirable talent--I love her music and her charm. But I don't think most of her non-LDS fans and followers are aware she's LDS, and I don't think her LDS fans consider her to be much of an influence on their views. At least, not in the same influential way that Reynolds is, for the younger LDS generation. Gladys Knight grew from the mainstream into Mormonism much later in her life and after a successful career as a non-Mormon. Reynolds didn't convert into Mormonism after a successful career--he and his fellow bandmates began within Mormonism and smashed onto the mainstream in a highly visible and very successful way. The dynamic of the levels of social, political, and entertainment-based contemporary influence is entirely different. (I'm not saying that makes Reynolds more talented that Knight, or that his career will be as long and as recognized as hers--I'm just saying his current influence is far more profound for the younger generation). And despite the grumblings and objections by those who accuse and/or ad hominem-ly attack Reynolds, his message, and whether or not his words demonstrate 'good faith,' as Reynold's success and attention is demonstrating, he and his message IS being heard (whether or not one agrees with him) in ways that Knight certainly isn't. And, as Imagine Dragons grew from Mormonism into the mainstream, it will be interesting to see how much success he'll likewise have in bringing his LDS community along with him into the mainstream of LGBT-affirmation and acceptance. D Thanks for relating this, Daniel. They do have quite a story to tell.....and the kids are listening. 1
Daniel2 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I think he's further along than you realize. Once again, we agree on something, Scott!
Daniel2 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, ALarson said: Oh, I think this is already getting a lot of press. It'll be interesting to see how much attention the movie will get when it's released and on HBO too. And apparently in theaters later this summer, too, prior to being released by HBO on their TV channel. 1
smac97 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, ALarson said: Thanks for relating this, Daniel. They do have quite a story to tell.....and the kids are listening. I agree. The story is one of falsehoods and mischaracterizations and bad faith. And, sadly, some LDS kids are indeed listening. I fail to see how this is admirable. Thanks, -Smac 4
Scott Lloyd Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: Once again, we agree on something, Scott! I think you are misinterpreting my meaning. Edited to add: On second thought, maybe not. Edited January 23, 2018 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 24 minutes ago, ALarson said: And, my son's favorite: As long as we're posting YouTube videos of well-loved songs, here's one of mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lGrShe7t7c 1
Daniel2 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, Vanguard said: This is a good story. : ) My concern with Reynolds is that with this newly found platform he may well venture into more politically charged commentary that will compel him to come out more openly against the the church. There is a voracious appetite & market for all things against it. Others will deliberately challenge him to speak more provocatively against our policies. He enters tricky waters where he will probably sooner than later have to throw down the gauntlet against his own faith community. And it seems he is already preparing for this... : ( I think that's a valid and very real concern, which is why I made the comments I did in the opening post of this thread. I am gladdened to see that a member of the Church's Public Affairs Department is attending the premier. I also take heart in hearing that Reynolds has desires to engage with the apostles on the matter. However, his message of acceptance does seem so at odds with the church's positions that I question how long he will be able to maintain an amicable relationship with Church Leadership, and imagine he's closer to having to part ways than even he may realize or be prepared for. I don't recall the church excommunicating anyone with this level of influence over LDS Youth. While Tyler Glenn was excommunicated, his tone, LDS-appeal, and approach were far less... endearing, optimistic, and palpable, even for those of us who are gay-affirmative. He was already on the outside as a gay man who dealt with his anger and bitterness towards the church in a very uncomfortable way. Reynolds' popularity and his "LoveLoud" message seem far more appealing to LDS youth than Glenn ever was, IMO. I wonder how an excommunication on his part would affect the younger LDS generation (though I don't imagine the answer to that will be a reason to avert an excommunication to those who feel a "shifting the wheat from the tares" and/or "removing wolves in sheep's clothing from the church"-type excommunication would be warranted in his case). 1
Daniel2 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: As long as we're posting YouTube videos of well-loved songs, here's one of mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lGrShe7t7c Here's one of my favorites of hers: 1
Calm Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 "also take heart in hearing that Reynolds has desires to engage with the apostles on the matter." Kate Kelly wanted to "engage" with the apostles, which amounted to basically telling them what revelation they were going to receive. 3
Daniel2 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I think you are misinterpreting my meaning. I don't think I am. For example, see my subsequent post to Vanguard here. Edited January 23, 2018 by Daniel2
Daniel2 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Calm said: "also take heart in hearing that Reynolds has desires to engage with the apostles on the matter." Kate Kelly wanted to "engage" with the apostles, which amounted to basically telling them what revelation they were going to receive. Yep. Wanting to dialogue with LDS Leadership certainly doesn't mean anyone is immune from excommunication. 1
ALarson Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, smac97 said: I agree. The story is one of falsehoods and mischaracterizations and bad faith. Nothing is as black and white as you portray this to be. He is definitely right about some of what he states, but I do agree that he goes to an extreme that may get him into trouble here. We will see. But, the kids do love their music and their story and they are listening to him. Many will see his movie. I hope he can walk the tightrope and stay in the church. He will have more influence (especially on LDS kids) if he remains active. Edited January 23, 2018 by ALarson 2
ALarson Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: As long as we're posting YouTube videos of well-loved songs, here's one of mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lGrShe7t7c I love this....thanks!!
Daniel2 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Posted January 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, smac97 said: I agree. The story is one of falsehoods and mischaracterizations and bad faith. And, sadly, some LDS kids are indeed listening. I fail to see how this is admirable. Thanks, -Smac I know from personal experience how words can be misinterpreted by the Press and what may have been well intentioned may sound as if it's being said in bad faith. I hope that Reynolds' documentary clarifies some of the mischaracterizations of LDS belief as they've appeared in some of the articles so far, and will reserve judgment of his intentions until I see for myself what he's suggesting. I imagine some may choose to see the documentary, while others will avoid it based on your words alone, Smac. I'll be happy to return and report, once I've seen it, as to whether or not the doc clears things up, and offer my (albeit already hopeful and potentially-biased) opinion (however much or little it may be worth) as to Reynolds' intentions. Although I admit that I hope his intentions are purer than your presumptions thus far, I do believe I'll be at least objective enough to say whether or not he continued to misconstrue what LDS belief actually says in the film itself (which I agree has been done to a certain extent in the reporting thus far), or whether or not he corrects the points being made in this thread. 2
smac97 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: I know from personal experience how words can be misinterpreted by the Press and what may have been well intentioned may sound as if it's being said in bad faith. Wow. Would that such concessions be granted to the LDS Church. 8 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: I hope that Reynolds' documentary clarifies some of the mischaracterizations of LDS belief as they've appeared in some of the articles so far, and will reserve judgment of his intentions until I see for myself what he's suggesting. I respect that. 8 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: I imagine some may choose to see the documentary, while others will avoid it based on your words alone, Smac. I invite you to re-visit my statements regarding the documentary. You'll not find a single censorious syllable within them. 8 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: I'll be happy to return and report, once I've seen it, as to whether or not the doc clears things up, and offer my (albeit already hopeful and potentially-biased) opinion (however much or little it may be worth) as to Reynolds' intentions. Although I admit that I hope his intentions are purer than your presumptions thus far, My assessment is not a set of "presumptions." I'm not "presuming" anything. I'm reading Mr. Reynolds' public statements and critiquing them. 8 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: I do believe I'll be at least objective enough to say whether or not he continued to misconstrue what LDS belief actually says in the film itself (which I agree has been done to a certain extent in the reporting thus far), Thank you for the concession. Those misrepresentations are problematic in and of themselves, regardless of whether they are repeated in the documentary. 8 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: or whether or not he corrects the points being made in this thread. I hope he does. Thanks, -Smac
Scott Lloyd Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, Daniel2 said: Here's one of my favorites of hers: Yeah, that one's nice. But I really like what she did with the Pips.
smac97 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 17 minutes ago, ALarson said: Nothing is as black and white as you portray this to be. He is definitely right about some of what he states, but I do agree that he goes to an extreme that may get him into trouble here. All right. 17 minutes ago, ALarson said: We will see. But, the kids do love their music and their story and they are listening to him. Many will see his movie. I hope he can walk the tightrope and stay in the church. So do I. I want him in the Church. I want everyone in the Church. But there are necessary boundaries. 17 minutes ago, ALarson said: He will have more influence (especially on LDS kids) if he remains active. I am interested in the nature of his influence. Misrepresenting the doctrines and practices of the Church to LDS kids is not cool. Thanks, -Smac 4
Scott Lloyd Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, ALarson said: I love this....thanks!! My pleasure. I love "Midnight Train to Georgia" as well.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, smac97 said: I am interested in the nature of his influence. Misrepresenting the doctrines and practices of the Church to LDS kids is not cool. Thanks, -Smac As much as I want him in the Church, I wouldn't want it to be under those circumstances.
Daniel2 Posted January 24, 2018 Author Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Yeah, that one's nice. But I really like what she did with the Pips. I'm glad you enjoy it. As another (theme) song goes: Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you, may not be right for some. A man is born, he's a man of means. Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans. But they got, Diff'rent Strokes. It takes Diff'rent Strokes. It takes Diff'rent Strokes to move the world. Everybody's got a special kind of story; Everybody finds a way to shine. It don't matter that you got not alot. So what? They'll have theirs, you'll have yours, and I'll have mine. And together we'll be fine! 'Cuz it takes Diff'rent Strokes to move the world, Yes it does. It takes Diff'rent Strokes to move the world. While I appreciate her incredible voice and obvious talent, Ms. Knight and the Pip's original stuff was before my time and just not my cup of tea, just as you may not enjoy Imagine Dragons--Diff'rent strokes to move the world! "Love One Another," on the other hand, definitely resonates with me and will always be timeless to me. Edited January 24, 2018 by Daniel2
ALarson Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: My pleasure. I love "Midnight Train to Georgia" as well. She's just simply amazing. I think I love everything I've ever heard her sing! She's also a beautiful person inside and out. 2
Daniel2 Posted January 24, 2018 Author Posted January 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, smac97 said: Wow. Would that such concessions be granted to the LDS Church. By whom? Was that directed at me...?
ALarson Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, smac97 said: All right. So do I. I want him in the Church. I want everyone in the Church. But there are necessary boundaries. I am interested in the nature of his influence. Misrepresenting the doctrines and practices of the Church to LDS kids is not cool. Thanks, -Smac I agree with all that you posted above, Smac. I'm anxious to hear from Daniel after he knows more.
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