The body of Christ

[Avatar4321]

Pondering how the Church is considered the Body of Christ today. It seems to me that if the Church, as the body of Christ, is a type for the actual body of Christ then the apostasy and restoration are required to make that type work.

The body of Christ was killed for the sins of the world and rose again Easter morning through the resurrection. Likewise, the body of Christ which is the Church died and was restored to life. Otherwise how can the church be a type for Christ?

The fact that the restoration began with the Feast of Trumpets is an interesting type as well. 

The Book of Mormon is another type for Christ.

If Joseph was a fraus and there was no restoration how did he get so many Types for Christ? How did he know the perfect time for Moroni to come would be? (Or Elijah for that matter?) How did he get so lucky on these matters?

[waveslider]

I think it is interesting that the sacrament is made up of one loaf of bread that is broken up into pieces for all of us to take, as we recommit to taking His name upon us in being the body of Christ, in an act of unifying us as one. Did other denominations think of it this way, or were they all just eating wafers? Did JS restore that symbolism as well, or was that symbolism not lost totally?

[Woody]

Isn't the Feast of Trumpets in the fall?

[waveslider]

5 minutes ago, Woody said:

Isn't the Feast of Trumpets in the fall?

Wasn't it September 21, 1823 that Moroni visited JS and told him of the plates?

Edited December 12, 2016 by waveslider
Wrong information in the sentence

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

Pondering how the Church is considered the Body of Christ today. It seems to me that if the Church, as the body of Christ, is a type for the actual body of Christ then the apostasy and restoration are required to make that type work.

The body of Christ was killed for the sins of the world and rose again Easter morning through the resurrection. Likewise, the body of Christ which is the Church died and was restored to life. Otherwise how can the church be a type for Christ?

The fact that the restoration began with the Feast of Trumpets is an interesting type as well. 

The Book of Mormon is another type for Christ.

If Joseph was a fraus and there was no restoration how did he get so many Types for Christ? How did he know the perfect time for Moroni to come would be? (Or Elijah for that matter?) How did he get so lucky on these matters?

Perhaps it is more along these lines:

Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

The bride is considered to become the body of the bridegroom.  Members of the Church of the Firstborn are considered the brides of Christ as bridegroom.
Therefore, members of the Church of the Firstborn are the body of Christ.

[LittleNipper]

Remember though that the Anti-Christ assumes a form of Christ but in fact is a counterfeit usurper. 

[snowflake]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 9:45 PM, waveslider said:

Wasn't it September 21, 1823 that Moroni visited JS and told him of the plates?

Correct, the autumnal equinox. Here is an interesting article by Michael Quinn on the subject.

http://blog.mrm.org/2008/09/joseph-smith-and-the-magical-autumnal-equinox/

[RevTestament]

6 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Correct, the autumnal equinox. Here is an interesting article by Michael Quinn on the subject.

http://blog.mrm.org/2008/09/joseph-smith-and-the-magical-autumnal-equinox/

maybe this Christmass you should think about the "magical" Saturnalia, and the associated gift-giving tradition, and where it all began.....

[waveslider]

25 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Correct, the autumnal equinox. Here is an interesting article by Michael Quinn on the subject.

http://blog.mrm.org/2008/09/joseph-smith-and-the-magical-autumnal-equinox/

Correlation doesn't always equal causation.

[snowflake]

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

maybe this Christmass you should think about the "magical" Saturnalia, and the associated gift-giving tradition, and where it all began.....

I have, lots of weird traditions from around the word associated with Christmas in America, I try to focus on Jesus alone.

[Woody]

You might, in your quest to understand the universe, think about this: the center of the galaxy is in Sagittarius. Right now in the dead of winter, the sun is in Sagittarius, ie. the earth is farthest away. It's closest in summer. Yet the big events are in spring and fall.

Now refer to BofA fac. 2. The earth (fig. 6) is at the bottom of the circle. Messengers (in boats, fig. 3&4) have to travel around the circle. At the 3 and 9 o'clock positions they enter the earth's zone. Compare this to the Kabbalah Tree of Life. Now refer to Jacob 4:14. Had ya there for a minute didn't I? Slap head.

[Five Solas]

On 12/11/2016 at 5:50 PM, Avatar4321 said:

Pondering how the Church is considered the Body of Christ today. It seems to me that if the Church, as the body of Christ, is a type for the actual body of Christ then the apostasy and restoration are required to make that type work.

The body of Christ was killed for the sins of the world and rose again Easter morning through the resurrection. Likewise, the body of Christ which is the Church died and was restored to life. Otherwise how can the church be a type for Christ?

The fact that the restoration began with the Feast of Trumpets is an interesting type as well. 

The Book of Mormon is another type for Christ.

If Joseph was a fraus and there was no restoration how did he get so many Types for Christ? How did he know the perfect time for Moroni to come would be? (Or Elijah for that matter?) How did he get so lucky on these matters?

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

--1 Corinthians 12:27

The "body of Christ" doesn't refer to an organizational entity or institution, Avatar.  It refers to a people, a people who believe in the person and work of Christ.  A people who express their faith by organizing into communities, into churches.  Only by misunderstanding the phrase does your analogy and your need for global "apostasy" and "restoration" make any sense. 

--Erik

[Atheist Mormon]

On 12/12/2016 at 6:17 AM, LittleNipper said:

Remember though that the Anti-Christ assumes a form of Christ but in fact is a counterfeit usurper. 

logically speaking, every Christ you speak of should be "Anti Christ", from Catholic one to Coptic or Greek orthodox Christ. If you are a Mormon and believe your version of Christ, every other one should be an "Anti", which should amount to 99% of Christs represented on the Planet. My suggestion (which is the most logical one), drop that only Christ you believe, you would be free of all Christs. 

 

[LittleNipper]

6 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

logically speaking, every Christ you speak of should be "Anti Christ", from Catholic one to Coptic or Greek orthodox Christ. If you are a Mormon and believe your version of Christ, every other one should be an "Anti", which should amount to 99% of Christs represented on the Planet. My suggestion (which is the most logical one), drop that only Christ you believe, you would be free of all Christs. 

 

I'm not Mormon. There is only one Biblical Christ.

[Atheist Mormon]

10 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

I'm not Mormon. There is only one Biblical Christ.

Still, my offer stands....If the rest is fake....It is so easy to shed the last one and be free.........

Besides what proportion of human race know the "Biblical Christ" like you do? 0.1% or less, there was no compiled Bible most of Christian History (more than 90%), there were no Bibles (or even funnier)n people could not read. Just because your pastor shakes that that bible every Sunday and and says "It's word of God", people did live quite OK without it.

It was so simple, even a Caveman could follow life's simple precepts and evolve, without Bible.

[Atheist Mormon]

Just now, Atheist Mormon said:

Still, my offer stands....If the rest is fake....It is so easy to shed the last one and be free.........

Besides what proportion of human race knEw the "Biblical Christ" like you do? 0.1% or less, there was no compiled Bible most of Christian History (more than 90%), there were no Bibles (or even funnier)n people could not read. Just because your pastor shakes that that bible every Sunday and and says "It's word of God", people did live quite OK without it.

It was so simple, even a Caveman could follow life's simple precepts and evolve, without Bible.

 

[LittleNipper]

11 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Still, my offer stands....If the rest is fake....It is so easy to shed the last one and be free.........

Besides what proportion of human race know the "Biblical Christ" like you do? 0.1% or less, there was no compiled Bible most of Christian History (more than 90%), there were no Bibles (or even funnier)n people could not read. Just because your pastor shakes that that bible every Sunday and and says "It's word of God", people did live quite OK without it.

It was so simple, even a Caveman could follow life's simple precepts and evolve, without Bible.

So, where is your scientific evidence for the .1%... Did you pull that out of a hat? The Bible simply states, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." That is where it all starts and not before that. People who accept Christ as their Savior will be saved. That is the start of journey that God takes the individual on. God came to Abram and pulled him from among the pagans. God comes to those whose hearts are open to follow Him. The Bible was originally the oral word. Moses began to compile the history as God led him and informed him. Now we have the written word. Now we have the Word made Flesh ---the Messiah! Now we have the computers to interact anywhere on the planet.  So, what excuse can an individual now have --- today? 

[Atheist Mormon]

56 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

So, where is your scientific evidence for the .1%... Did you pull that out of a hat? The Bible simply states, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." That is where it all starts and not before that. People who accept Christ as their Savior will be saved. That is the start of journey that God takes the individual on. God came to Abram and pulled him from among the pagans. God comes to those whose hearts are open to follow Him. The Bible was originally the oral word. Moses began to compile the history as God led him and informed him. Now we have the written word. Now we have the Word made Flesh ---the Messiah! Now we have the computers to interact anywhere on the planet.  So, what excuse can an individual now have --- today? 

Saved from what? Are you saved any more than a pagan? Evidences for what, Lack of Bibles throughout the history? Nobody read Bible abundantly until last couple centuries and now you are touting that it will save the planet. We have no evidence that Abraham, Moses & clan ever existing, it is likely a folklore perpetuated by generation to generation.. Even if it was all true, where are the affects? How many people will be saved out of 7billion + people? 

[LittleNipper]

2 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Saved from what? Are you saved any more than a pagan? Evidences for what, Lack of Bibles throughout the history? Nobody read Bible abundantly until last couple centuries and now you are touting that it will save the planet. We have no evidence that Abraham, Moses & clan ever existing, it is likely a folklore perpetuated by generation to generation.. Even if it was all true, where are the affects? How many people will be saved out of 7billion + people? 

Whether you accept it or not, while you have a beginning (conception), you now will continue to exist after death in another form. I believe everyone eventually receives an eternal body; however, not everyone will be happy with where they end up in it. And I do believe that there is an eternal hell and it is made up of people who didn't want anything to do with a God they didn't create... I have no evidence that your great great great grandfather existed. I do have proof that you exist and I have proof that life exists on this planet. The logic that God created man seems easy enough to believe. And since God is and created everything, it would seem that being able to communicate that fact and protect those facts over time seem the easier probability. Scientists cannot create life. If they cannot, how could nature? I believe it doesn't matter how many will be saved --- what matters is will you be saved! I do believe that there are more saved individuals that have existed, exist, and will exist than you or even I might imagine.

There is one interesting thing, the Bible indicates that once saved an individual is always saved. One cannot lose his salvation. God doesn't play that game. However, not everyone claiming to be a child of God is --- but that is a different subject. The first thing to do is know that you make mistakes and that you need a Savior and that you want to be with God. 

[Atheist Mormon]

19 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Whether you accept it or not, while you have a beginning (conception), you now will continue to exist after death in another form. I believe everyone eventually receives an eternal body; however, not everyone will be happy with where they end up in it. And I do believe that there is an eternal hell and it is made up of people who didn't want anything to do with a God they didn't create... I have no evidence that your great great great grandfather existed. I do have proof that you exist and I have proof that life exists on this planet. The logic that God created man seems easy enough to believe. And since God is and created everything, it would seem that being able to communicate that fact and protect those facts over time seem the easier probability. Scientists cannot create life. If they cannot, how could nature? I believe it doesn't matter how many will be saved --- what matters is will you be saved! I do believe that there are more saved individuals that have existed, exist, and will exist than you or even I might imagine.

There is one interesting thing, the Bible indicates that once saved an individual is always saved. One cannot lose his salvation. God doesn't play that game. However, not everyone claiming to be a child of God is --- but that is a different subject. The first thing to do is know that you make mistakes and that you need a Savior and that you want to be with God. 

It's fine & Dandy you stake so much in your faith... Someday all my searches will bear fruit, I spent most of my free life in Utah, Arizona & NM canyons, I entered into canyons where no Man ever visited, in search of this elusive ElDorado, a massive golden canyon as it was depicted in the movie McKenna's Gold, or I will find this Alien Artifact, half buried somewhere......

How does it sound for a faithful search? Does it rival yours? End of the day mine or your quest are pure fantasies, concocted by a an ancient book (in your case) and mine from Movies or Erich von Daniken's Books (Chariots of Gods). I'm not disparaging you to slightest, but I'm questioning your devotion to this "SkyFather" who is so reluctant to show Himself up!

You can ask me the same thing and I'd answer you; I do it for fun, I never prayed for a path guiding me to this End of Rainbow golden Pot, it's useless because I know for sure we made up all these make_Believe fantasies, unless of course Jesus shows up despite my skepticism and heals an amputee's hand. 

[LittleNipper]

39 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

It's fine & Dandy you stake so much in your faith... Someday all my searches will bear fruit, I spent most of my free life in Utah, Arizona & NM canyons, I entered into canyons where no Man ever visited, in search of this elusive ElDorado, a massive golden canyon as it was depicted in the movie McKenna's Gold, or I will find this Alien Artifact, half buried somewhere......

How does it sound for a faithful search? Does it rival yours? End of the day mine or your quest are pure fantasies, concocted by a an ancient book (in your case) and mine from Movies or Erich von Daniken's Books (Chariots of Gods). I'm not disparaging you to slightest, but I'm questioning your devotion to this "SkyFather" who is so reluctant to show Himself up!

You can ask me the same thing and I'd answer you; I do it for fun, I never prayed for a path guiding me to this End of Rainbow golden Pot, it's useless because I know for sure we made up all these make_Believe fantasies, unless of course Jesus shows up despite my skepticism and heals an amputee's hand. 

And I'm telling you trust God. Tell HIM your misgivings. Be as Frank, or as Sam, or as Harry as you want (Sorry, I'm a Christian--- that doesn't make me perfect or a good comedian). I believe the Bible is the word of God. I believe the Flood really happened. Give HIM a chance. There are plenty of cases where people have nearly died and something happens to bring them back. I was nearly crushed by a tree (Locust tree). A storm came up and something or someone told me to move my car. I was young newly married --- my wife was held up at work (never happened before) --- I was late arriving home. A violet storm was brewing and I was hanging in my car. I was told to move the car ---- "NOW!" Straight winds came up and I heard cracking and snapping and crashing. The tree directly behind the car snapped in half. It would have been impaled me to the grown. Some years later my wife and I prayed to have a baby. It wasn't happening. I might have been okay but my wife she was pretty upset. There were operations and a fertility doctor. He told me that if we were not pregnant that month my wife would need another endometriosis operation. I prayed. No man, I begged God, "Please, please, God please...  Take me, I'm the creep, the jerk! Don't let my wife go through this again... " I wont keep you in suspense. My wife called me at work, I was imagining ---- 'NOW WHAT!' and she told me were're having a baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Has life been perfect? No! Can I be an idiot? YES! Do I believe in GOD? Absolutely!  I'm not a Mormon. I'm a born-again believer saved by grace. If we were brothers, best friends, I wouldn't tell you any different. Don't trust me ---- trust in GOD! Talk to Him --- He's died on the cross to hear from you. Just do it...

Edited December 22, 2016 by LittleNipper

[Atheist Mormon]

26 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

And I'm telling you trust God. Tell HIM your misgivings. Be as Frank, or as Sam, or as Harry as you want (Sorry, I'm a Christian--- that doesn't make me perfect or a good comedian). I believe the Bible is the word of God. I believe the Flood really happened. Give HIM a chance. There are plenty of cases where people have nearly died and something happens to bring them back. I was nearly crushed by a tree (Locust tree). A storm came up and something or someone told me to move my car. I was young newly married --- my wife was held up at work (never happened before) --- I was late arriving home. A violet storm was brewing and I was hanging in my car. I was told to move the car ---- "NOW!" Straight winds came up and I heard cracking and snapping and crashing. The tree directly behind the car snapped in half. It would have been impaled me to the grown. Some years later my wife and I prayed to have a baby. It wasn't happening. I might have been okay but my wife she was pretty upset. There were operations and a fertility doctor. He told me that if we were not pregnant that month my wife would need another endometriosis operation. I prayed. No man, I begged God, "Please, please, God please...  Take me, I'm the creep, the jerk! Don't let my wife go through this again... " I wont keep you in suspense. My wife called me at work, I was imagining ---- 'NOW WHAT!' and she told me were're having a baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Has life been perfect? No! Can I be an idiot? YES! Do I believe in GOD? Absolutely!  I'm not a Mormon. I'm a born-again believer saved by grace. If we were brothers, best friends, I wouldn't tell you any different. Don't trust me ---- trust in GOD! Talk to Him --- He's died on the cross to hear from you. Just do it...

The miracles you are talking about total nonsense...Why should God protect you or me (I have my share of miracles too) and snatch babies away from mothers bosom in Tsunami? I am very happy to hear all those good things happened to you, I share your joy of survival, it could happen even you prayed to Allah or Buddha. 

If your God favors you or me because we are Christian, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with him.

[LittleNipper]

21 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

The miracles you are talking about total nonsense...Why should God protect you or me (I have my share of miracles too) and snatch babies away from mothers bosom in Tsunami? I am very happy to hear all those good things happened to you, I share your joy of survival, it could happen even you prayed to Allah or Buddha. 

If your God favors you or me because we are Christian, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with him.

I believe GOD will help those seeking HIM. And I believe HE will save those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah. And a Buddhist doesn't actually believe in GOD. They believe they are on their way to achieving nirvana (reaching perfection through suffering). 

GOD actually desires everyone to come to HIM and be saved. He provides many opportunities and sometimes even extends one's life in that regard. But He will also end a life He knows will only find a deeper abode in Hell if allowed to continue. That is God's prerogative.

Edited December 22, 2016 by LittleNipper

[Atheist Mormon]

51 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

GOD actually desires everyone to come to HIM and be saved. 

That is the biggest LIE I have ever heard. 80% of my Christian ancestors got slaughtered, just to put their faith in God. Rather than accumulating weapons to defend themselves they built beautiful churches. Those stone churches took alot to destroy, even today the country is littered with those half standing churches but none of my ancestors. 

I'm sorry my friend, you are on a time wasting path and missing out of life meanwhile. Once you are gone, you are dead, nothing will come back, re-create you.

[LittleNipper]

3 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

That is the biggest LIE I have ever heard. 80% of my Christian ancestors got slaughtered, just to put their faith in God. Rather than accumulating weapons to defend themselves they built beautiful churches. Those stone churches took alot to destroy, even today the country is littered with those half standing churches but none of my ancestors. 

I'm sorry my friend, you are on a time wasting path and missing out of life meanwhile. Once you are gone, you are dead, nothing will come back, re-create you.

Yes and governments have build fancy Capitals and Palaces. Everyone is going to die someday. You cannot stop it and after this the Judgment. I'm still happy to know that my life touched someone. And I have an eternity to look forward to and not an empty past littered with ruins and forgotten people.

Edited December 22, 2016 by LittleNipper