A New Defense of the 1832 First Vision Account

[Benjamin Seeker]

2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I also wonder how much D&C 84:21-22 influenced Joseph's decision to not specifically name the individuals in his vision.  Was this a case of just copying the language of other visionary experiences he was familiar with, or was he concerned with specifically identifying deity when scripture that he had previously written specifically calls this out. I'm not sure.  

I think JS believed he was a special case. It's possible he believed his lineage had a right to the priesthood, or possessed it innately through birthright, so would possible be an exception to D&C 84. Evidence for JS lineage having a birthright-type priesthood is found in D&C 86:8-10:

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8 Therefore, thus saith the Lord unto you, with whom the priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers--

9 For ye are lawful heirs, according to the flesh, and have been hid from the world with Christ in God--

10 Therefore your life and the priesthood have remained, and must needs remain through you and your lineage until the restoration of all things spoken by the mouths of all the holy prophets since the world began.

This birthright-priesthood idea needs its own thread so more people can contribute. It's possible that D&C 86 was inspired by cognitive dissonance JS experienced regarding D&C 84 revealed just three months earlier and his first vision experience.

 

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I also wonder about this late recollection from Zebedee Coltrin, its interesting in that it recounts Joseph seeing Jesus and later seeing God the Father.  This account was remembering an 1833 school of the prophets time period experience.  

http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/ZebC.html

Now this is interesting because in the lectures on faith in 1835, God was just a spirit, and perhaps because the Father was surrounded by flames of fire, this is what a personage of spirit would look like?

(this is another version of the same account I cited and gave a few versions of earlier in the thread). That's definitely one of the clearest doctrinal developments about God (from Spirit to physical body). I'm not sure that the glory represented spirit, simply because JS described both ressurected beings and spirits as appearing in glory. More likely, I think their vision demonstrated the doctrine that God the Father was somehow more glorious than the Son, even if they didn't have a clear theology for it yet at that point.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Benjamin Seeker

[hope_for_things]

15 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

This birthright-priesthood idea needs its own thread so more people can contribute. It's possible that D&C 86 was inspired by cognitive dissonance JS experienced regarding D&C 84 revealed just three months earlier and his first vision experience.

Yeah, this could be a whole separate discussion.  I don't find the D&C 86 reference to be really clear, but its an interesting idea I haven't heard of before.  

[Benjamin Seeker]

12 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Yeah, this could be a whole separate discussion.  I don't find the D&C 86 reference to be really clear, but its an interesting idea I haven't heard of before.  

Agreed. It's not clear exactly what it means, and I've never seen it addressed. I've already started another thread on the board, and the discussion is developing.