thesometimesaint Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, ERayR said: Tacenda I agree. I have a hard time believing we evolved from apes or even that we had a common ancestor. I have no problem with great time spans or animal life before man but I believe that the advent of God's family was a separate and special event. Biologically we are Apes. SEE
cdowis Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 (edited) 43 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: The bee(s) that had a clustering behavior and/or dance strategy reproduced better than those that didn't. It isn't that complicated. Yes, an excellent example of a tautology =====>>. avoids answering the question, but sounds very intelligent. I see you have vast practical experience is using that technique. Edited October 15, 2016 by cdowis 1
thesometimesaint Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 1 minute ago, cdowis said: Yes, that is an excellent example of a tautology. It avoids answering the question, while sounding very intelligent. I can see you have practical experience is using that technique. It is not a tautology, in evolution those that reproduce win.
cdowis Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: It is not a tautology, in evolution those that reproduce win. OK, let's take it back and ask in a very clear, distinct manner. There existed pre-bees. You know, bees doid not exist at some point in time, but the creature from which they evolved, the "pre-bee" did not have the ability to use the dance language, and clustering. They did not possess the highly developed society of workers, queens, etec. They were unable to cooperate in building a hive. They consumed the nectar individually, rather than as a collective. The pre-bee did not have clustering behaviour, it did not communicate with pre-bees with the dance language. This creature we shall call the PRE-BEE from which the honey bee evolved. Any questions? Is this clear where we are starting from. We are not starting from the modern honey bee but from its predecessor. Now, let's come to my question. Quote How did bees develop/evolve clustering behaviour, how did they develop/evolve the dance language. Edited October 15, 2016 by cdowis
ERayR Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: Biologically we are Apes. SEE Hi BoBo. If that is where you trace your family tree then who am I to argue.
bluebell Posted October 16, 2016 Author Posted October 16, 2016 7 hours ago, Teancum said: No that is not what Paul says. It is something hoped for that does not have evidence. One can argue faith is the manifestation of the evidence that is not seen. Hebrews 11:1 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. You misunderstand. He says it's unseen, not that it has no evidence. He says faith is evidence of things not seen. 1
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 9 hours ago, cdowis said: OK, let's take it back and ask in a very clear, distinct manner. There existed pre-bees. You know, bees doid not exist at some point in time, but the creature from which they evolved, the "pre-bee" did not have the ability to use the dance language, and clustering. They did not possess the highly developed society of workers, queens, etec. They were unable to cooperate in building a hive. They consumed the nectar individually, rather than as a collective. The pre-bee did not have clustering behaviour, it did not communicate with pre-bees with the dance language. This creature we shall call the PRE-BEE from which the honey bee evolved. Any questions? Is this clear where we are starting from. We are not starting from the modern honey bee but from its predecessor. Now, let's come to my question. Same answer. One or more of the Pre-Bee's had the ability to do something a little better than their companions. It/they reproduced and transferred that ability to the next generation. Ad Infinitum until we got the modern Honey Bee. Which BTW are still evolving as environmental conditions change over time.
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 3 hours ago, bluebell said: You misunderstand. He says it's unseen, not that it has no evidence. He says faith is evidence of things not seen. Faith is the evidence of the unseen. Science is the evidence of the seen.
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 9 hours ago, ERayR said: Hi BoBo. If that is where you trace your family tree then who am I to argue. My biological family tree is Homo Sapiens Sapiens.
cdowis Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) 54 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Same answer. One or more of the Pre-Bee's had the ability to do something a little better than their companions. It/they reproduced and transferred that ability to the next generation. Ad Infinitum until we got the modern Honey Bee. Which BTW are still evolving as environmental conditions change over time. OK, the "magic of evolution". Sounds very much like Creationism -->> creation by "poof" explains everything. Edited October 16, 2016 by cdowis
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, cdowis said: OK, the "magic of evolution". Sounds very much like Creationism -->> creation by "poof" explains everything. No magic unless you consider biology magic. SEE
waveslider Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 5 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Ad Infinitum until we got the modern Honey Bee. Which BTW are still evolving as environmental conditions change over time. They aren't evolving, they are becoming extinct: http://www.organicauthority.com/7-hawaiian-bees-added-to-endangered-species-list/
waveslider Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 12 minutes ago, waveslider said: They aren't evolving, they are becoming extinct: http://www.organicauthority.com/7-hawaiian-bees-added-to-endangered-species-list/ On second thought perhaps bees are evolving: http://www.businessinsider.com/harvard-robobees-closer-to-pollinating-crops-2014-6
cdowis Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 5 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: No magic unless you consider biology magic. SEE This video has absolutely no relevance with what I was discussing with sometimessaint. You need to go back and follow the thread of our posts.
bluebell Posted October 16, 2016 Author Posted October 16, 2016 10 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Faith is the evidence of the unseen. Science is the evidence of the seen. Yes, science is about proving. Faith isn't. That doesn't mean that people who have faith do so without evidence to support their faith. I have faith specifically because of the experiences i've had, which is my evidence. 1
Tacenda Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) deleted, wrong thread. Edited October 16, 2016 by Tacenda
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 7 hours ago, waveslider said: They aren't evolving, they are becoming extinct: http://www.organicauthority.com/7-hawaiian-bees-added-to-endangered-species-list/ Extinction is highly probable in evolution. In fact some 95% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. Who knows what will take its place to fill that ecological niche.
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 2 hours ago, bluebell said: Yes, science is about proving. Faith isn't. That doesn't mean that people who have faith do so without evidence to support their faith. I have faith specifically because of the experiences i've had, which is my evidence. Agreed.
waveslider Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: Extinction is highly probable in evolution. In fact some 95% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. Who knows what will take its place to fill that ecological niche. The extinction of bees is caused by human use of Neonicotinoids and Glyphosates. Nothing to do with natural selection.
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 35 minutes ago, waveslider said: The extinction of bees is caused by human use of Neonicotinoids and Glyphosates. Nothing to do with natural selection. Actually it has everything to do with natural selection. Hopefully there are some bee's that are relatively immune to those pesticides. SEE http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01 1
waveslider Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 10 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Actually it has everything to do with natural selection. Hopefully there are some bee's that are relatively immune to those pesticides. SEE http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01 So far there aren't any immune to these toxic pesticides. They are very effective pesticides and we just may end up without very much variety to what we get to eat in the very near future, because instead of stopping the problem they are trying to figure out ways to replicate, with a lot of tax dollars, what the bees are already doing for free. It is sad to watch.
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, waveslider said: So far there aren't any immune to these toxic pesticides. They are very effective pesticides and we just may end up without very much variety to what we get to eat in the very near future, because instead of stopping the problem they are trying to figure out ways to replicate, with a lot of tax dollars, what the bees are already doing for free. It is sad to watch. Agreed.
Teancum Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) deleted post Edited October 17, 2016 by Teancum
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