Will our church get involved? It is a Christian issue

[TheSkepticChristian]

8 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

That's why the houses are built on stilts. 

for regular upward and downward movement of the level of the ocean, sea level rise is something else. 

8 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

. Tides are not abnormal, they are seasonal and cyclical. People love to ignore the cycles when they sell real estate.

Of course not, but we are talking about sea level rise after taking into account seasonal and cyclical tides. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[thesometimesaint]

20 hours ago, mnn727 said:

Why did you change it?

I'll ask again, do you believe God is in charge or not?

As far as your claim that humans have never experienced this much climate change before is wrong

from: http://www.livescience.com/53883-ancient-europeans-vanished-after-ice-age.html

If you have to posit any God or Godlike force to make science work, it isn't science but religion.

A regional aberration is not global.

[rodheadlee]

56 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

for regular upward and downward movement of the level of the ocean, sea level rise is something else. 

Of course not, but we are talking about sea level rise after taking into account seasonal and cyclical tides. 

Did you look at the graph on my links? I can't get them to post. The sea has been higher than it is right now. It's not a smooth rise.

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by rodheadlee

[thesometimesaint]

20 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Probably because that is the place he is familiar with.

It is becoming increasingly clear that the climate models showing alarming rates of increase in temperature are badly flawed, My hope is that actual observations over time will dampen the " sky is falling " hysteria and cooler heads will prevail ( pun intended ) The problem is with the political side .Once that train started it will be almost impossible to stop or even slow. Kind of like the run up to WW1 . Once the troop trains got moving ,war was inevitable .

Yes they are deeply flawed, Every time we measure it is getting warmer faster than previously thought. I've never said the "sky is falling". There is plenty we can still do. That train left the station 250 years ago, and has been gaining speed ever since. We are locked in the 2 degrees C rise even with a total stop in CO2 production. That isn't going to happen so the best we can do is limit to below 3 degrees C.

[thesometimesaint]

14 hours ago, strappinglad said:

True or false - global warming is man made . Well true, sort of,  maybe somewhat.

True or false - Global warming is entirely caused by human activity. Ask that question to all the reputable scientists and see what the answer is.  

True.

False.

SEE

 

[Deborah]

Of course climate is changing, it always has. Even before the Industrial Age. I think we need to distinguish between thinking we can control the climate and the reality of only being able to change pollution on local levels. Of course we should take care of the environment but getting panicked over an ocean rise a hundred years from now doesn't solve anything. We should make sure our cities remain clean and beautiful. I have seen articles about communities in poor, run-down neighborhoods where people began cleaning up their streets and planting flowers and this in and of itself changes the behavior of the people.

Some of the climate change fanatics want to make dramatic changes in behavior without considering the cost and loss of jobs to communities. It needs to be done with practicality and thoughtfulness and education on the benefits of a clean environment. Plus we have made great progress in making even coal production much cleaner, but some are determined to close down coal mining altogether without regard to how much coal is still needed in the country and to the loss of jobs for those who work with coal. I think this is the problem some of the so-called deniers have with the process; not that climate isn't changing (as it always has) but that fanaticism is destroying our economy and not allowing innovators the opportunity to find solutions that are cost effective and beneficial in the short and long run.

[TheSkepticChristian]

21 minutes ago, Deborah said:

Of course climate is changing, it always has. Even before the Industrial Age.

Please read the OP. 

21 minutes ago, Deborah said:

Some of the climate change fanatics want to make dramatic changes in behavior without considering the cost and loss of jobs to communities.

Ironically, the people using that argument are the same people that see military action as an option to prevent Iran from getting a nuke.  

A war in Iran could cost the USA up to 18 trillion dollars. 

I don't want to get into the politics, let's just talk about religion and science. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[thesometimesaint]

39 minutes ago, Deborah said:

Of course climate is changing, it always has. Even before the Industrial Age. I think we need to distinguish between thinking we can control the climate and the reality of only being able to change pollution on local levels. Of course we should take care of the environment but getting panicked over an ocean rise a hundred years from now doesn't solve anything. We should make sure our cities remain clean and beautiful. I have seen articles about communities in poor, run-down neighborhoods where people began cleaning up their streets and planting flowers and this in and of itself changes the behavior of the people.

Some of the climate change fanatics want to make dramatic changes in behavior without considering the cost and loss of jobs to communities. It needs to be done with practicality and thoughtfulness and education on the benefits of a clean environment. Plus we have made great progress in making even coal production much cleaner, but some are determined to close down coal mining altogether without regard to how much coal is still needed in the country and to the loss of jobs for those who work with coal. I think this is the problem some of the so-called deniers have with the process; not that climate isn't changing (as it always has) but that fanaticism is destroying our economy and not allowing innovators the opportunity to find solutions that are cost effective and beneficial in the short and long run.

Miami 2016. That's salt water from sea level rise not fresh water from rain.

SEE http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/mayor-gimenez-bows-to-environmentalists-creates-sea-level-rise-position-7910737

BTW We have cities over 2500 years old. Do you really only think in short time frames.

The vast majority of coal is used to produce electricity. There are economic advantages to producing electricity by other means. I myself produce nearly all of my own electricity by solar cells. Until you recognize the problem exists NOTHING will be done to correct it.

[Ahab]

13 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

It's not the same, the earth isn't a perfect round sphere,. The Alameda numbers came from the NOAA website, it's close to where I live. I'll post a link later. I was on the road with a mobile device when I posted that.

 

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=9414750

The mean sea level trend is 0.67 millimeters/year with a 95% confidence
interval of +/- 0.43 mm/yr based on monthly mean sea level data from
1939 to 2014 which is equivalent to a change of 0.22 feet in 100 years.

 

 

 

 

This is Honolulu, Hawaii http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=1612340

The mean sea level trend is 1.41 millimeters/year with a 95% confidence
interval of +/- 0.22 mm/yr based on monthly mean sea level data from
1905 to 2014 which is equivalent to a change of 0.46 feet in 100 years.

 

Thanks for the info.  It still seems strange to me though to imagine all the water in the Pacific ocean not leveling out everywhere as the world turns, whether the earth is lopsided or not. Otherwise there would be like, what, big waves of water squishing around in different places with some waves being higher in some places than others.

Oh, wait, nevermind. I think I see now.

[volgadon]

2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Please read the OP. 

Ironically, the people using that argument are the same people that see military action as an option to prevent Iran from getting a nuke.  

A war in Iran could cost the USA up to 18 trillion dollars. 

I don't want to get into the politics, let's just talk about religion and science. 

You brought up irrelevant politics, then before anyone can respond, you demand people keep on topic. Clever.

[Deborah]

2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Ironically, the people using that argument are the same people that see military action as an option to prevent Iran from getting a nuke.  

A war in Iran could cost the USA up to 18 trillion dollars. 

I don't want to get into the politics, let's just talk about religion and science. 

I have no idea what this has to do with what I said.

[Deborah]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Miami 2016. That's salt water from sea level rise not fresh water from rain.

SEE http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/mayor-gimenez-bows-to-environmentalists-creates-sea-level-rise-position-7910737

BTW We have cities over 2500 years old. Do you really only think in short time frames.

The vast majority of coal is used to produce electricity. There are economic advantages to producing electricity by other means. I myself produce nearly all of my own electricity by solar cells. Until you recognize the problem exists NOTHING will be done to correct it.

But it appears that all that money will go to changing structures not changing the climate.

Fine if you want and can go to solar but it shouldn't be mandated. 

[thesometimesaint]

33 minutes ago, Deborah said:

But it appears that all that money will go to changing structures not changing the climate.

Fine if you want and can go to solar but it shouldn't be mandated. 

Changing structures isn't the answer. The seas will continue to rise as long as there is added heat   The answer is to use less fossil fuels.

You might feel all smug and safe in Utah, but it is getting hotter and drier there. The Great Salt Lake is disappearing due to Global Warming. How long can you go without fresh water?

SEE http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865644549/North-arm-of-Great-Salt-Lake-6evaporating-away7.html?pg=all

People are funny, the infection in your toe is of less immediate importance, but just as deadly as the tiger you're looking at.

We're already experiencing sea level rise right now. Not in a hundred years from now.

I've already done it. What's your excuse? Moreover that is just an excuse to do nothing.

[Deborah]

38 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

I've already done it. What's your excuse? Moreover that is just an excuse to do nothing.

That's a rather smug attitude given you don't know someone else's circumstance.

 

[Guest]

On March 15, 2016 at 4:02 AM, TheSkepticChristian said:

A new study published Monday projected that Millions will be affected by sea level rise by the year 2100. The Paper was published in the respected Nature Journal. 

The church likes to talk about the "dangers" of marijuana and same sex marriage,  what about climate change?  

Humans have never experienced a rapid global climate change warming, never. Earth is warming 50x faster than when it comes out of an ice age. Rapid climate destabilization is what has climate scientists worried. 

I hope our church joins the Catholic church on this issue, where are our prophets? 

Proper stewardship of the earth is the calling of all believers. 

[Cold Steel]

17 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Where did paper talk about decades of cooler global surface temperatures? 

Just because the dailycaller caller reports something, doesn't mean it is accurate. 

Nobody takes the dailycaller caller seriously. 

Yes, I realize the Daily Caller isn't a premium news service, but lately very few outlets are producing good journalism. Reuters and AP used to have exacting standards for news reporting. Now they're horrible. Grammatical and spelling errors are troubling, but now the reporting is abysmal because what they leave out of stories is at least as important as what they leave in. And what they've been leaving out over the past five to ten years is appalling. 

In this particular story, it's reported that "Atlantic cooling can impact the climate for decades, according to researchers, on timescales from 20 to 30 years. This means cooler global temperatures and changing weather patterns could unfold over the next two to three decades, possibly extending the so-called “pause” in global warming."

Your OP asks if the church will become involved in the global warming debate. I would have to say no, though that's merely my opinion, and I say that because it (the church) has already served notice on mankind. Repent, or the Lord will sweep this land of the wicked:

Quote

Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people [see Isaiah 60:2 ], and all flesh has become corrupt before my face. Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin , and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; first among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord. ( D&C 112:23–26)

This is why the Lord said: "Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments. And also gave commandments to others, that they should proclaim these things unto the world; and all this that it might be fulfilled, which was written by the prophets: The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh."

The Lord never brings destruction upon a people except he first warns them. And the sure way of preventing global catastrophe isn't to convene international conventions or fly in Al Gore as a speaker. It's to repent of wickedness. This is certainly the reason the church doesn't take part in such endeavors. 

[carbon dioxide]

On 3/15/2016 at 1:02 AM, TheSkepticChristian said:

A new study published Monday projected that Millions will be affected by sea level rise by the year 2100. The Paper was published in the respected Nature Journal. 

The church likes to talk about the "dangers" of marijuana and same sex marriage,  what about climate change?  

Humans have never experienced a rapid global climate change warming, never. Earth is warming 50x faster than when it comes out of an ice age. Rapid climate destabilization is what has climate scientists worried. 

I hope our church joins the Catholic church on this issue, where are our prophets? 

The Church has said that part of the last days events is that cities will be destroyed by the seas going beyond their bounds.  Where are the prophets?  They have done what they needed to do.  Proclaim the things that are ahead of us.  The events that will occur in the last days will happen just as the sun rises in the east.  They can't be stopped in any real measure.  Rather than waste time attempting to stop them, we should just be preparing to endure through them.  The wicked will be swept off the earth by various means.  Whether it be by our hand or the hand of the Lord it is the same.

[rodheadlee]

12 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Miami 2016. That's salt water from sea level rise not fresh water from rain.

SEE http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/mayor-gimenez-bows-to-environmentalists-creates-sea-level-rise-position-7910737

BTW We have cities over 2500 years old. Do you really only think in short time frames.

The vast majority of coal is used to produce electricity. There are economic advantages to producing electricity by other means. I myself produce nearly all of my own electricity by solar cells. Until you recognize the problem exists NOTHING will be done to correct it.

That's what happens when you build on a swamp called the Everglades. More than half of  southern Florida is built on reclaimed swamp land. I've built houses that are water proofed 4 feet or more up because it floods every spring tide on a full moon.

Edited March 17, 2016 by rodheadlee

[thesometimesaint]

17 hours ago, Deborah said:

That's a rather smug attitude given you don't know someone else's circumstance.

 

I've never insisted that everyone do things just like me. That is clearly impossible and to my mind unreasonable. However nearly everyone can do more.

 

[thesometimesaint]

9 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

That's what happens when you build on a swamp called the Everglades. More than half of  southern Florida is built on reclaimed swamp land. I've built houses that are water proofed 4 feet or more up because it floods every spring tide on a full moon.

New York City wasn't built in the Everglades.

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/rosenzweig_03/