Scott Lloyd Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: CFR. My colleague held her wedding reception there by contacting the business office in advance, scheduling the banquet room and paying for it. She did not have to be "invited by those who work for the Church or the Church organization." If somebody from the Church invited Meldrum et al, who was it? Here's a website where you, too, can contact the business office and schedule one of the "elegant banquet rooms" in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building for your event. (Yes, you can be like Meldrum.) Please note that you don't have to be "invited by those who work for the Church or the Church organization." And it's not necessary to have the Church "sponsor" it. All you have to do is pay the money. Edited January 29, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
Calm Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 He has been forbidden to speak in chapels, etc. for firesides. I highly doubt that given that, the Church would sponsor him at an event (contribute money, etc). 2
Scott Lloyd Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) On 1/28/2016 at 8:50 AM, Johnnie Cake said: Why the heck do you think Meldrum is renting space at the JSB instead of say Little America??? Seriously? You are not a dumb person Scott, I know you do not want to concede a point to the likes of me but for gosh sakes..Really? This point hasn't slipped past Meldrum... By allowing Meldrum to rent space it gives tacit agreement to his agenda and allows the uninformed people who believe in his crap to form an impression at least that the church somehow approves of his message...Meldrum while wrong in his worldview is no dummy...he's using the JSB as a cloke of tacit approval to his rubbish...Why am I the only one that can see this? You are smart people...and this is so freaking obvious... (end of rant) He probably thinks it gives him some credit among his devotees to have it there; I grant that. But it in no way implies "tacit approval" by the Church of what he is doing. That is a ridiculous assertion. The Church is no more giving him "tacit approval" than they are to the hundreds of other corporate, civic or private customers who rent space from them in the course of a year. Quote IF as you seem to agree the owners of the JSB do have some standard where by they would deny Planned Parenthood a rented room in their commercial enterprise...then it would suggest that they do have some vetting process...so failing to deny Meldrum does give tacit approal. I've already responded to this. There may be some reason why the management might object to doing business with Planned Parenthood -- PP is an abortion provider, for example. I don't know. Maybe management (known by the corporate name of Temple Square Hospitality) would have no objection. But as I said before, the Church is effectively neutral on what Meldrum et al are doing, so Temple Square Hospitality has no good reason not to do business with them as it would others. Edited January 29, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Calm said: He has been forbidden to speak in chapels, etc. for firesides. I highly doubt that given that, the Church would sponsor him at an event (contribute money, etc). Of course, holding their "firesides" in one of our chapels is different. That definitely would imply Church endorsement, perhaps even sponsorship. For a while, Meldrum et al were holding their events in chapels. The Church leadership at headquarters got wind of it and put a stop to it. But our chapels are not commercial facilities offering meeting-room and banquet services to people and entities for payment. Edited January 29, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 2
stemelbow Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 On 1/29/2016 at 3:49 PM, Scott Lloyd said: CFR. My colleague held her wedding reception there by contacting the business office in advance, scheduling the banquet room and paying for it. She did not have to be "invited by those who work for the Church or the Church organization." If somebody from the Church invited Meldrum et al, who was it? It's my guess, as I said. This isn't in the banquent room. I haven't gone back to see what else the flyer has said, but it didn't seem like it was something he paid for, rather that he was invited for. There's no CFR to meet. As I said, it is my guess, just as you guessed it is him paying for it.
stemelbow Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 On 1/29/2016 at 3:54 PM, Scott Lloyd said: Um, the Church is not sponsoring an event for Meldrum. Here's another CFR. Now, there are two on the table. You're CFR'ing my statement that "if the Church sponsored" something for John Sorenson I'd have no problem with it?
Calm Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, stemelbow said: It's my guess, as I said. This isn't in the banquent room. I haven't gone back to see what else the flyer has said, but it didn't seem like it was something he paid for, rather that he was invited for. There's no CFR to meet. As I said, it is my guess, just as you guessed it is him paying for it. He might have been invited for it, but it doesn't mean the Church invited him. While he has at times set up his own conferences and talks in various places, he has also gone to talk to places where people have expressed interest in him doing so, even to the point of finding places for him to talk at and footing the bill from what I have been told by him and others. Again given that he has been banned from church buildings for his firesides, I find it hard to believe the Church would sponsor him even if there is no problem with him speaking at for profit locations it owns if someone else pays the bills. Edited February 1, 2016 by Calm 1
Calm Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Is there any evidence of the Church sponsoring for profit organizations? The Church does not sponsor FairMormon events even though they allow us to present firesides without censure, publish accounts about us in the Church News and link to us on lds.org and two of their current employees have talked at our conference (and many have attended over the years). They do none of these things for Meldrum (can't comment on if any employees attend). If we (FM) were to appear in the JSB, we would be paying for the opportunity undoubtedly or someone outside the Church would be doing it for us. Edited February 1, 2016 by Calm 1
stemelbow Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Calm said: He might have been invited for it, but it doesn't mean the Church invited him. While he has at times set up his own conferences and talks in various places, he has also gone to talk to places where people have expressed interest in him doing so, even to the point of finding places for him to talk at and footing the bill from what I have been told by him and others. I didn't mean to say the Church invited him, per se. But someone either employee or missionary did, apparently. It's for them, as I've learned. I spotted a flyer meant for internal consumption, apparently. I was told this is part of a once a month, unofficial thing put on my employees and missionaries for themselves/each other. They invite people to discuss interesting topics or they just share amongst themselves. Anywho, it doesn't appear anyone bought up the place, neither he nor someone else for him.
Calm Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Someone didn't get the memo it would appear then.
Scott Lloyd Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 9 hours ago, stemelbow said: You're CFR'ing my statement that "if the Church sponsored" something for John Sorenson I'd have no problem with it? I thought you were saying or implying that the Church had indeed sponsored something for Meldrum and company, thus occasioning their event at the JSMB. If that's not what you're saying, then, of course, I rescind my CFR.
Scott Lloyd Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) On 2/1/2016 at 7:27 AM, stemelbow said: It's my guess, as I said. This isn't in the banquent room. I haven't gone back to see what else the flyer has said, but it didn't seem like it was something he paid for, rather that he was invited for. There's no CFR to meet. There's not just one banquet room at the JSMB. There are are a dozen banquet/meeting rooms available for customers to hire for their events, as you'll see if you go to the website I linked to. If you're saying that the Church invited him and his group to come have their event at the JSMB, then who was it specifically who invited them? Quote As I said, it is my guess, just as you guessed it is him paying for it. It's not just a guess on my part. It is a reasoned assumption. If, as Calm has pointed out, the Church long ago put the kibosh on Meldrum holding his events at meetinghouses and chapels, it makes no sense that the Church would be inviting him to come put on something at the JSMB. It makes even less sense that the Church would "sponsor" such a thing. Given the fact that Temple Square Hospitality is in the business of renting out facilities in the JSMB to individuals and entities, it is a far more reasonable and likely assumption that Meldrum et al are merely another customer, not invited and hosted guests, your conclusion-jumping notwithstanding. Edited February 4, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Calm said: He might have been invited for it, but it doesn't mean the Church invited him. While he has at times set up his own conferences and talks in various places, he has also gone to talk to places where people have expressed interest in him doing so, even to the point of finding places for him to talk at and footing the bill from what I have been told by him and others. Again given that he has been banned from church buildings for his firesides, I find it hard to believe the Church would sponsor him even if there is no problem with him speaking at for profit locations it owns if someone else pays the bills. Yes, this is another likely possibility, far more likely than it being the Church having done the inviting. There is no good reason for stemelbow to have jumped to the conclusion that he did. I'm glad he's now admitting it was just a guess, but he is engaging in unwarranted pushback on this. Unless more information is forthcoming (who specifically did the inviting, etc.) I see no reason to take his conclusion seriously.
Scott Lloyd Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: I didn't mean to say the Church invited him, per se. But someone either employee or missionary did, apparently. It's for them, as I've learned. I spotted a flyer meant for internal consumption, apparently. I was told this is part of a once a month, unofficial thing put on my employees and missionaries for themselves/each other. They invite people to discuss interesting topics or they just share amongst themselves. Anywho, it doesn't appear anyone bought up the place, neither he nor someone else for him. Unless it's an internal entity of some sort (a Church department or something) I can't see Temple Square Hospitality offering the facilities of the JSMB for free.
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