FormerLDS Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 11 hours ago, Zakuska said: So all that is required in your view, to have "everlasting life" that cannot be lost is to "believe in Christ"? If that is so then please explain how this person heard the word, "believed" the word, received the word unto salvation, and then still fell. Luke 8 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. According to OSAS this is impossible. Why didn't God give them root? Wasn't the Holy Ghost strong enough? "So all that is required in your view, to have "everlasting life" that cannot be lost is to "believe in Christ"?" EXACTLY, but I cannot take credit for God's plan of salvation, so not really "my view". Luke 8:13 clarifies the fact that saved people can still fall back into the sinful world. Doesn't mean they do not have eternal life. Think about James 2: who's faith saves? Our faith (which can die) or the faith of Jesus Christ given to us? This verse does not say they lost their salvation because they fell away.
FormerLDS Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 1 minute ago, St. Bookmark said: Savedwheat sounds like my baptist friends, with the o.s.a.s. false doctrine "False" because it does not support the LDS paradigm? The people of Christ's day called him a "deceiver" (Mt 27:63), yet he was true. Friends, focus on what Christ plainly tells you in His own words. You will only be convinced by His words.
St. Bookmark Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: "False" because it does not support the LDS paradigm? The people of Christ's day called him a "deceiver" (Mt 27:63), yet he was true. Friends, focus on what Christ plainly tells you in His own words. You will only be convinced by His words. No because it is non scriptural, the only way to make it work is to leave out all the verses that show it is wrong. my friends like to throw Ephesians 2:8 all the time then I showed them Ephesians 2:8-10 and there world changed, and then I showed the book of James, and the book of Romans, wow, what fun we had that day. 1
Anakin7 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Regarding The Posession of Eternal Life and keeping it - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/possess.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 Those that Actualy Enter The Kingdom [ From a non LDS Christian perspective view ] according to The Holy Bible. http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/destiny.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Broad Is The Road To Destruction if you do not understand The True Road to Salvation in respose to the evangelical presentation of the Romans Road which is Broad. Presented with Love. http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/broad.htm Edited January 28, 2016 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 A message about The Christian Judgement to OSAS/Antinominians from non LDS Christians . http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/judgement.htm In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Zakuska Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 39 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: "So all that is required in your view, to have "everlasting life" that cannot be lost is to "believe in Christ"?" EXACTLY, but I cannot take credit for God's plan of salvation, so not really "my view". Luke 8:13 clarifies the fact that saved people can still fall back into the sinful world. Doesn't mean they do not have eternal life. Think about James 2: who's faith saves? Our faith (which can die) or the faith of Jesus Christ given to us? This verse does not say they lost their salvation because they fell away. A believer who falls back into a life of sin will not be saved nor has eternal life. Paul makes that abundantly clear. Gal 5:22Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Also the verse indicates a "temporary belief" something OSAS renders impossible.
JLHPROF Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 51 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: "False" because it does not support the LDS paradigm? The people of Christ's day called him a "deceiver" (Mt 27:63), yet he was true. Friends, focus on what Christ plainly tells you in His own words. You will only be convinced by His words. No, false because it's not even Biblical, leaving Mormonism aside.
Anakin7 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Great Holy Ghost/Spirit filled post Zakuska, Former may not understand that Believing on Jesus is the same as Obeying Him as was understood in the Anchient Middle East, not just some head knowledge but a life to stay Saved entrenched in there very souls that must be won each second/minute/hour of every day, see - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/believing.htm In HIs Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Salvation is absolutly Free 2 Nephi 2:4 But It Costs you your very life Luke 14:25-35 Edited January 28, 2016 by Anakin7
FormerLDS Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, St. Bookmark said: No because it is non scriptural, the only way to make it work is to leave out all the verses that show it is wrong. my friends like to throw Ephesians 2:8 all the time then I showed them Ephesians 2:8-10 and there world changed, and then I showed the book of James, and the book of Romans, wow, what fun we had that day. "Non-scriptural", even though you have been provided what Jesus Christ plainly said. If His Word does not convince you then who am I? Again, I think if you would take a step back from OSAS and re-define what you mean by "saved" then it might become more clear.
FormerLDS Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 41 minutes ago, Zakuska said: A believer who falls back into a life of sin will not be saved nor has eternal life. Paul makes that abundantly clear. Gal 5:22Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Also the verse indicates a "temporary belief" something OSAS renders impossible. Good news friends! Those who have eternal life have his perfection - his faith - imputed to their imperfection. We are made perfect through Jesus Christ even though physically we still sin. Hence the Apostle Paul saying "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Romans 7:17 Those who have eternal life are made perfect forever by His atonement. "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Hebrews 10:14
Anakin7 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Not to answer for St Bookmark but for me To Believe in True Salvation by way of The person and work of Jesus Christ is to have a Total Entrenched Love, Belief, Faith, Covenant, Obedience, To Jesus Christ. Using the Anchient Middle Eastern understanding of The words Grace, Faith. To be Saved is to have overcome Death/Hell/Satan and his grasp on us. In His Eternal Debt/Grace 2 Nephi 2:4 Luke 14: 25-35 Anakin7 Edited January 28, 2016 by Anakin7
FormerLDS Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: No, false because it's not even Biblical, leaving Mormonism aside. Perhaps you should reconsider and read what Jesus Christ plainly says about the subject of eternal life? I think if you could see what He is saying as a child (without preconceived LDS interpretation) your eyes would be opened to the truth.
FormerLDS Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 39 minutes ago, Anakin7 said: Great Holy Ghost/Spirit filled post Zakuska, Former may not understand that Believing on Jesus is the same as Obeying Him as was understood in the Anchient Middle East, not just some head knowledge but a life to stay Saved entrenched in there very souls that must be won each second/minute/hour of every day, see - http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/believing.htm In HIs Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Salvation is absolutly Free But It Costs you your very life Luke 14;25-35 Seriously, do you consider your house an absolutely free gift* from the bank? *absolutely free gift, as long as you make monthly "covenant renewal" payments by "doing all that you can do" for the rest of your life.
Anakin7 Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Former please address the links I Shared above which respond to your OSAS plus check context of your last Scripture reference. Must go to work with my Evangelical Friends now. Have a Grace filled day. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 28, 2016 by Anakin7
FormerLDS Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 10 minutes ago, Anakin7 said: Former please address the links I Shared above which respond to your OSAS plus check context of your last Scripture reference. Must go to work with my Evangelical Friends now. Have a Grace filled day. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 I don't normally click on links because I'm more interested in active reasoning rather than one-sided opinions of those not participating in discussion.
St. Bookmark Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 To put it simply I know iam saved. by the grace of Jesus Christ, and now that I know it, I must show it. the grace saves and also changes me. i know Christ has laws and commandments and I must follow them. but I don't judge a person because they sin differently then I do. And I don't think of my self as better then another. Because that will turn me in too the older prodigal son. I know no matter how good iam it will matter not unless I have faith in Christ. 1
JLHPROF Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 17 minutes ago, St. Bookmark said: To put it simply I know iam saved. by the grace of Jesus Christ, and now that I know it, I must show it. the grace saves and also changes me. i know Christ has laws and commandments and I must follow them. but I don't judge a person because they sin differently then I do. And I don't think of my self as better then another. Because that will turn me in too the older prodigal son. I know no matter how good iam it will matter not unless I have faith in Christ. I also know I am saved. I will be redeemed from death and the grave. I will have my body and spirit unite eternally. And this will be by no other power than the atonement of Christ, through no merit of my own. My concern now is where the actions of my life will cause my saved and redeemed self to reside and which restrictions I may place upon myself through my choices. I am saved and I will be saved, but what state will I be in when I am saved?
FormerLDS Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 2 hours ago, St. Bookmark said: To put it simply I know iam saved. by the grace of Jesus Christ, and now that I know it, I must show it. the grace saves and also changes me. i know Christ has laws and commandments and I must follow them. but I don't judge a person because they sin differently then I do. And I don't think of my self as better then another. Because that will turn me in too the older prodigal son. I know no matter how good iam it will matter not unless I have faith in Christ. Do you honestly think the rejected of the saviour in Matthew 7 didn't have faith in Jesus Christ? They said "...in thy name, we...". They had faith in Christ and they had works which proved their faith - works far greater then your own, yet the saviour said unto them "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you." The whole point of Christ's atonement is that you cannot become worthy enough for eternal life friends. As much as you try, you will never be able to follow enough commandments to obtain worthiness in His sight.
FormerLDS Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 2 hours ago, JLHPROF said: I also know I am saved. I will be redeemed from death and the grave. I will have my body and spirit unite eternally. And this will be by no other power than the atonement of Christ, through no merit of my own. My concern now is where the actions of my life will cause my saved and redeemed self to reside and which restrictions I may place upon myself through my choices. I am saved and I will be saved, but what state will I be in when I am saved? While LDS theology can only offer you a "one day" promise of redemption, for those who choose to believe, Jesus Christ offers redemption and eternal life today. Thank God I no longer have to say I will "one day" have eternal life. Jesus Christ gave me eternal life the moment I heard his words for the very first time through reading of His word and chose to believe that His atonement alone was sufficient and all of my worthy behavior could never mean anything in His sight because His work on the cross was sufficient. Good as you might be friends, if you do not have eternal life then you do not have Jesus Christ living within you.
JLHPROF Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 1 minute ago, FormerLDS said: While LDS theology can only offer you a "one day" promise of redemption, for those who choose to believe, Jesus Christ offers redemption and eternal life today. Thank God I no longer have to say I will "one day" have eternal life. Jesus Christ gave me eternal life the moment I heard his words for the very first time through reading of His word and chose to believe that His atonement alone was sufficient and all of my worthy behavior could never mean anything in His sight because His work on the cross was sufficient. Good as you might be friends, if you do not have eternal life then you do not have Jesus Christ living within you. Matt 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.24 ¶Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And your definition of "Saved" seems to be flawed. If you are saved now, what does that mean that is any different from LDS theology. Eternal life is eternal life - living forever. And you are very wrong about Christ's view of worthy behavior. Check your Bible. Your ethereal turns of phrase notwithstanding, Christ himself set more requirements than just believing. Scripture is full of them. So have fun "hearing" and not "doing". And enjoy the great fall.
FormerLDS Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 13 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Matt 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.24 ¶Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And your definition of "Saved" seems to be flawed. If you are saved now, what does that mean that is any different from LDS theology. Eternal life is eternal life - living forever. And you are very wrong about Christ's view of worthy behavior. Check your Bible. Your ethereal turns of phrase notwithstanding, Christ himself set more requirements than just believing. Scripture is full of them. So have fun "hearing" and not "doing". And enjoy the great fall. In John 6:40, Jesus Christ plainly reveals His will: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." His will is that you receive eternal life today. The rejected of the Saviour in Matthew 7 did not have eternal life. "Saved" in LDS theology can be used to refer to many forms of "salvation". I encourage you to look it up on your own and find out for yourself what LDS "Eternal Life" really means (and "eternal life" does not mean simply "living forever").
Zakuska Posted January 29, 2016 Author Posted January 29, 2016 15 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: In John 6:40, Jesus Christ plainly reveals His will: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." His will is that you receive eternal life today. Except for the fact that your own verse sets the time frame for the reception of the gift of eternal life to 'the last day', and not 'today' as you misread it. Quote The rejected of the Saviour in Matthew 7 did not have eternal life. of course they didn't and neither do you ir I until the last second ticks off the clock.
JLHPROF Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 58 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: In John 6:40, Jesus Christ plainly reveals His will: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." His will is that you receive eternal life today. The rejected of the Saviour in Matthew 7 did not have eternal life. "Saved" in LDS theology can be used to refer to many forms of "salvation". I encourage you to look it up on your own and find out for yourself what LDS "Eternal Life" really means (and "eternal life" does not mean simply "living forever"). See, you are doing just what our friend Savedwheat does, and switching scriptures to one you like better instead of answering the scriptural quote provided. Prooftexting and ignoring issues raised in favor of the same cliche phrases doesn't do anything to support your point. "The rejected of the Saviour in Matthew 7 did not have eternal life." - You have provided no evidence of this. The rejected in Matthew 7 clearly "seeth the Son, and believeth on him," but don't heed his words. As such they do not enter heaven.
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