Foreigner Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Yes, Swedenborg is a deep well—and one that can be rather forbidding for newcomers to his thought. Here is a place to start: Who was Swedenborg? What Should I Read?Hi Lee, Thanks.It is tremendous how simply everything is now available, comparing to times when I was young. Just time is lacking.By the way, all our scriptures also are directly available. Here is Book of Mormon.https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng I would be interested how you find this. I have also Bible background. The Book of Mormon is secondary for me, in accordance to its title "Another Testament of Jesus Christ". Yet I see the plan of salvation given in a more clear way there.Other Christians say that Book of Mormon is contradictory to Bible. I have never found these contradictions. Do not hesitate to share your reflections with us.
Lee Woofenden Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Hi Lee, Thanks.It is tremendous how simply everything is now available, comparing to times when I was young. Just time is lacking.By the way, all our scriptures also are directly available. Here is Book of Mormon.https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng I would be interested how you find this. I have also Bible background. The Book of Mormon is secondary for me, in accordance to its title "Another Testament of Jesus Christ". Yet I see the plan of salvation given in a more clear way there.Other Christians say that Book of Mormon is contradictory to Bible. I have never found these contradictions. Do not hesitate to share your reflections with us.Hi Foreigner, Yes, much of human literature is online, though I'm not throwing away my fairly extensive Swedenborgian library just yet! There are still many books that aren't available online, either because they're still in copyright or because they just haven't been scanned. Plus some reference works are still easier to use in physical form, such as the six volume Swedenborg Concordance, by J.F. Potts, which I still use quite heavily despite the fact that there are several online Swedenborg lookup tools. Perhaps I'm just a little too old, and having not grown up in the digital age, I'm just not as proficient zooming around online as younger folks are. I suppose the day will come when books are not useful for much any more, beyond the pleasure of engaging with information in a more physical and tactile way. About the Book of Mormon, I do hope to read it one day. But quite honestly, that day will probably not be very soon. Given the various tasks that I have set my mind and hands to, I simply can't justify the time at this point. I do look forward to the day when I may have more available time on my hands, and can start chipping away more seriously at my extended reading list.
Anakin7 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 LEE do you have a Book of Mormon in your possession ?, if not we would be more than thrilled to get you a copy !. May your day be filled with True Grace. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Lee Woofenden Posted December 5, 2015 Posted December 5, 2015 On 12/3/2015, 12:19:30, Anakin7 said: LEE do you have a Book of Mormon in your possession ?, if not we would be more than thrilled to get you a copy !. May your day be filled with True Grace. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Yes, we do have a Book of Mormon, though a good chunk of our library is still in boxes after our move to Wyoming, and that particular volume seems to be among those that have not yet been unpacked.
Anakin7 Posted December 7, 2015 Author Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Hope and pray that your move went well and Blessed Will you be pastoring a new congregation in your new area ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Edited December 7, 2015 by Anakin7
Lee Woofenden Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 On 12/7/2015 at 9:25 PM, Anakin7 said: Hope and pray that your move went well and Blessed Will you be pastoring a new congregation in your new area ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Thank you. We arrived in fine form six months ago in rental truck heavily overloaded with our large library! I have no plans to take on another pastorate. And as a matter of practicality, the closest congregation in my denomination is 500 miles away. However, my wife and I are starting up a new ministry that will include my doing regular public speaking in Wyoming, northern Colorado, and occasionally in other neighboring states.
mfbukowski Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 16 minutes ago, Lee Woofenden said: Thank you. We arrived in fine form six months ago in rental truck heavily overloaded with our large library! I have no plans to take on another pastorate. And as a matter of practicality, the closest congregation in my denomination is 500 miles away. However, my wife and I are starting up a new ministry that will include my doing regular public speaking in Wyoming, northern Colorado, and occasionally in other neighboring states. I live in the Los Angeles area. I get to Utah a few times a year but are planning more trips. If you ever get out this way, I would like to connect, and likewise if I get near where you are I will try to look you up. Distances out here seem not to be as big a deal as they are back east! I will PM you with my email, and you can reply or not as you like!
Anakin7 Posted December 10, 2015 Author Posted December 10, 2015 Same for me, I also am in the Los Angeles county arena [ approx 30 miles East of Los Angeles]. Contact me as well !. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
RevTestament Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 10 hours ago, Lee Woofenden said: Thank you. We arrived in fine form six months ago in rental truck heavily overloaded with our large library! I have no plans to take on another pastorate. And as a matter of practicality, the closest congregation in my denomination is 500 miles away. However, my wife and I are starting up a new ministry that will include my doing regular public speaking in Wyoming, northern Colorado, and occasionally in other neighboring states. Hi, and welcome. I find Swedenborg an interesting fellow, but there are a few large things which deeply disturb me about his teachings and where they potentially came from. To me it's kinda like the devil knew the gospel was about to be restored so poisoned the well so to speak. I hate to speak so bluntly, but that is my explanation for it, which makes me very hesitant to spend lots of time learning about his teachings. It's like realizing that Urantia Book teaches against the doctrine of the atonement - if I believe in the atonement, why should I take a year of my life or more and read the thousands of pages of the UB? Fortunately, it doesn't influence enough people for me to be overly concerned about it. That said, here is one of my huge beefs with my current understanding of Swedenborg: "In Swedenborg’s theology, “the Father” is the divine soul, while “the Son” is the divine body, or human manifestation. (See “Who is God? Who is Jesus Christ? What about that Holy Spirit?”) The Bible also offers an example of someone talking to his own soul, in Jesus’ parable of the rich fool: Then he told them a parable: “The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, ‘What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?’ “Then he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.’” (Luke 12:16-19, italics added) So the simple answer, which doesn’t even require Swedenborg’s theology, but only a common understanding of human nature (which is an image and likeness of God’s nature, see Genesis 1:26-27), is: Jesus was talking to himself, and specifically, to his own soul, which was the Father within him." The doctrine of two natures caused a huge rift in the church, and I personally reject it. Further, the above teaching directly conflicts with my personal understanding of God. I believe the Father is El Elyon, the Most High God. Luke says Jesus is the Son of the Most High. His inheritance is to be the Father. Isa 9:6. As I understand what you are saying, Swedenborg taught that Jesus was literally the Father already. I believe Jesus was basically the agent of the Father - whom the Father sent to teach us of Him. In that sense when the Jews saw Jesus, they were seeing the Father. Anyway, I can go on, but hopefully you get my point. Jesus is NOT the Father. The Father has His own soul. Isa 42:1. Jesus has a separate soul. They are one YHWH Elohim together. Am I misunderstanding Swedenborg?
Lee Woofenden Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) 3 hours ago, RevTestament said: Hi, and welcome. <snip> The doctrine of two natures caused a huge rift in the church, and I personally reject it. Further, the above teaching directly conflicts with my personal understanding of God. I believe the Father is El Elyon, the Most High God. Luke says Jesus is the Son of the Most High. His inheritance is to be the Father. Isa 9:6. As I understand what you are saying, Swedenborg taught that Jesus was literally the Father already. I believe Jesus was basically the agent of the Father - whom the Father sent to teach us of Him. In that sense when the Jews saw Jesus, they were seeing the Father. Anyway, I can go on, but hopefully you get my point. Jesus is NOT the Father. The Father has His own soul. Isa 42:1. Jesus has a separate soul. They are one YHWH Elohim together. Am I misunderstanding Swedenborg? Hi RevTestament, Thanks for your welcome and for your questions. As covered fairly thoroughly in the discussion above, Swedenborgian and LDS theology do not agree with one another when it comes to the nature of God. I don't want to repeat everything I already wrote above, but briefly, Swedenborgians believe: Jesus temporarily had a dual nature while living on earth. Jesus no longer has a dual nature, but is the one and only God of the universe. The Father and the Son are distinct, but not distinct persons. They are, rather, two "essential components" of one God, the Father being like our soul, and the Son being like our body. I invite you to read through the above discussions if you want more specifically in response to the various LDS participants here who asked questions and made statements on this topic. I also extracted and edited one of my more on-point (to your question) posts here in this article on my blog, which I invite you to read: Was Jesus Christ Human from Mary, or Human from God? If none of that material answers your question, please feel free to try again. Edited December 10, 2015 by Lee Woofenden
Lee Woofenden Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 13 hours ago, mfbukowski said: I live in the Los Angeles area. I get to Utah a few times a year but are planning more trips. If you ever get out this way, I would like to connect, and likewise if I get near where you are I will try to look you up. Distances out here seem not to be as big a deal as they are back east! I will PM you with my email, and you can reply or not as you like! It would certainly be nice to meet in person if there is ever an opportunity. I can't promise to drive long distances to meet you, but if you're ever in the Cheyenne / N. Colorado area, please do look me up. In the future, if my speaking ministry goes well, I do hope to travel to some more distant cities on speaking tour. If and when that happens, there will be announcements on my blog of when and where I'll be speaking.
Lee Woofenden Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 5 hours ago, Anakin7 said: Same for me, I also am in the Los Angeles county arena [ approx 30 miles East of Los Angeles]. Contact me as well !. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Hmm, looks like a CABAL in the L.A. area! ;-) And yes, it would be great to meet you in person if the opportunity ever arises.
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