The Anthon Manuscript

[Calm]

I know it was seen as that from Martin and Joseph, but if that conversation actually transpired, I'm trying think what Anthon was getting at.

 

If someone wanted me to read a book and it had duck tape on it, I wouldn't just say "I cannot read a taped book".  

 

Is the idea of a mystically sealed book a thing?  Was he dismissing the mystical nature of the request?  Sort of like a doctor saying "Well, I can't read palm lines so get out of here." 

Maybe Harris explained it as there is a part of the plates that are sealed together so that the word "sealed" was there in Anthon's mind due to the previous conversation.

[Calm]

Side note to your side note, but still along the line of thing that don't make sense.

If Joseph was able to translate the plates with out even having to look at them, as some accounts state, why would sealing a portion of the plates do any good?

Maybe it had to do with someone else besides Joseph.  

[Brian 2.0]

I guess I'm still curious if a "sealed book" was a mystical thing at the time at all.  The accounts of the sealed portion don't appear to be mystical but practical binding.

 

https://www.lds.org/new-era/2007/07/what-did-the-golden-plates-look-like?lang=eng

The plates were sealed by Moroni after he had separated from the rest of his people. He would have used materials that were readily available to him at that time. The descriptions say they were “securely bound” and “appeared solid.” The statements indicate a complete encapsulation of the plates to protect and preserve them for the future. None of the witnesses mentions metal bands around the plates. This seems to be an artistic creation of the mid-twentieth century that has no documentary basis.

 

 

And only some of the plates were sealed and as much was told to Anthon which makes his declaration odd as there were still plenty of plates that were not sealed he could read. 

[omni]

My own theory is that Anthon initially thought the characters were legit, probably based off a brief cursory review he fit in between classes or something he was working on. This wouldn't have been too difficult to accomplish, one would need to simply take existing ancient characters and make some adjustments. Once Anthon learned where Harris obtained the characters, he realized his mistake and quickly withdrew his endorsement.

[hagoth7]

Hi Brian,

There seems to be a bit of bias in what the author chooses to throw out.  There's a lot of "Anthon contradicts himself, he's not being truthful..." yet the other way is much more sympathetic "The Harris account contradicts itself, but it's just simply misremembering." And the parts his misremembering are the inconsistencies and not the parts that fulfill prophecy from the scriptures...

Please explain the bias that your'e seeing.

 

First, I actually didn't say Anthon was being untruthful. I merely said that his accounts contradicted one another. Which they do on several points. Interpret that how you wish - after you reflect a bit on how memory often works - considering also that his two accounts were seven years apart from one another.

 

Also, as to the assertion that the Harris account somehow contradicts itself, I can't see how it does or could contradict itself, because there is no other Harris account to compare the first one against. (At least I've never heard of a second one.)

 

On both counts, I was attempting to be fair, and was not casting aspersion on any of the three people involved. So where's the bias? Am I missing something there?

 

 

Also, have you followed Okrahomer's early suggestion to consider this thread in response to your initial query about shorthand? If so, any thoughts or impressions?

 

Thanks for the link.  Every account just seems to have problems.   They all seem to have contradictions and error...

The temporary confusion you're describing sounds quite similar to what Joseph said of the general confusion he experienced as a young man when every competing denomination claimed to have the truth. And that's when he came to the epistle of James, which changed everything.

 

Joseph's subsequent course of action...reflection, seclusion, and humble vocal prayer...is something from which we can each take a helpful cue.

Edited September 2, 2015 by hagoth7

[St. Bookmark]

Royal skousen said that the Anton script we have is really the Oliver cowdery script since the Anton script had a translation with it and this one does not.

[hagoth7]

...

Edited September 4, 2015 by hagoth7

[cinepro]

This is an interesting look at the Anthon Transcript by someone who analyzes "ciphers" and other written language mysteries:

 

http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2009/06/01/the-anthon-transcript

 

The entire article is good, but here's the conclusion for those who don't want to read the whole thing:

 

 

Are the letters “reformed hieroglyphics”?

Given that I place the Anthon Transcript’s alphabet firmly within the visual & stylistic tradition of arbitrary-loaded shorthands (which themselves all ultimately derive from Jeremiah Rich’s mid-seventeenth century shorthand system, even if the Anthon Transcript’s text is apparently not written in a shorthand system), I have to say that I am at a loss to see any conceivable connection with hieroglyphics (or even with Demotic, for that matter)

---------------------------------------------------------

In summary, probably the least controversial inference you can draw from the lettershapes is their post-1650 dating: the embellished “H” shape and the probable links with Rich-family shorthand letter-shapes indicate that this is in no way ancient.

 

In the absence of any other credible information, the most likely story I can reconstruct is that the “caractors” in the Anthon Transcript were copied in no particular order from a shorthand Bible (or possibly a shorthand diary), with various other letter-shapes added to make the overall alphabet look more ‘exotic’, or even “hieroglyphic” (even though, to our modern eyes, these singularly fail to have the desired effect). I would also be fairly unsurprised if the same shorthand Bible itself was subsequently used as a prop to convince skeptics – in short, that this was the Detroit Manuscript itself (but which, like the rest of the Anthon Transcript, subsequently disappeared from sight).

 

Of course, a single good piece of evidence could well refute all of this… but I haven’t seen it yet.

Edited September 4, 2015 by cinepro

[theplains]

Actually Professor Anthon gave Harris a certificate verifying the authenticity of the characters; not about the translation of them. He only saw the reformed egyptian characters and must have recognized them as being Egyptian-like in their appearance. 

 

"I took the certificate and put it into my pocket, and was just leaving the house, when Mr. Anthon called

me back, and asked me how the young man found out that there were gold plates in the place where

he found them. I answered that an angel of God had revealed it unto him.  He then said to me, Let me

see that certificate. I accordingly took it out of my pocket and gave it to him, when he took it and tore it

to pieces, saying that there was no such thing now as ministering of angels, and that if I would bring the

plates to him he would translate them."

 

in my opinion, this sudden flip-flop of Mr. Anthon discredits him.  If the characters are authentic, then it

doesn't matter if a speaking mule or the Tooth Fairy revealed it.

 

Regards,

Jim

 

 

[cinepro]

in my opinion, this sudden flip-flop of Mr. Anthon discredits him.  If the characters are authentic, then it

doesn't matter if a speaking mule or the Tooth Fairy revealed it.

 

Regards,

Jim

Well, here's what Anthon had to say about the incident in 1834:

 

New York, Feb. 17, 1834

Dear Sir –

I received this morning your favor of the 9th instant, and lose no time in making a reply. The whole story about my having pronounced the Mormonite inscription to be "reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics" is perfectly false. Some years ago, a plain, and apparently simple-hearted farmer, called upon me with a note from Dr. Mitchell of our city, now deceased, requesting me to decypher, if possible, a paper, which the farmer would hand me, and which Dr. M. confessed he had been unable to understand. Upon examining the paper in question, I soon came to the conclusion that it was all a trick, perhaps a hoax. When I asked the person, who brought it, how he obtained the writing, he gave me, as far as I can now recollect, the following account: A "gold book," consisting of a number of plates of gold, fastened together in the shape of a book by wires of the same metal, had been dug up in the northern part of the state of New York, and along with the book an enormous pair of "gold spectacles"! These spectacles were so large, that, if a person attempted to look through them, his two eyes would have to be turned towards one of the glasses merely, the spectacles in question being altogether too large for the breadth of the human face. Whoever examined the plates through the spectacles, was enabled not only to read them, but fully to understand their meaning.

 

All this knowledge, however, was confined at that time to a young man, who had the trunk containing the book and spectacles in his sole possession. This young man was placed behind a curtain, in the garret of a farm house, and, being thus concealed from view, put on the spectacles occasionally, or rather, looked through one of the glasses, decyphered the characters in the book, and, having committed some of them to paper, handed copies from behind the curtain, to those who stood on the outside. Not a word, however, was said about the plates having been decyphered "by the gift of God." Every thing, in this way, was effected by the large pair of spectacles. The farmer added, that he had been requested to contribute a sum of money towards the publication of the "golden book," the contents of which would, as he had been assured, produce an entire change in the world and save it from ruin. So urgent had been these solicitations, that he intended selling his farm and handing over the amount received to those who wished to publish the plates. As a last precautionary step, however, he had resolved to come to New York, and obtain the opinion of the learned about the meaning of the paper which he brought with him, and which had been given him as a part of the contents of the book, although no translation had been furnished at the time by the young man with the spectacles.

 

On hearing this odd story, I changed my opinion about the paper, and, instead of viewing it any longer as a hoax upon the learned, I began to regard it as part of a scheme to cheat the farmer of his money, and I communicated my suspicions to him, warning him to beware of rogues. He requested an opinion from me in writing, which of course I declined giving, and he then took his leave carrying the paper with him. This paper was in fact a singular scrawl. It consisted of all kinds of crooked characters disposed in columns, and had evidently been prepared by some person who had before him at the time a book containing various alphabets. Greek and Hebrew letters, crosses and flourishes, Roman letters inverted or placed sideways, were arranged in perpendicular columns, and the whole ended in a rude delineation of a circle divided into various compartments, decked with various strange marks, and evidently copied after the Mexican Calender given by Humboldt, but copied in such a way as not to betray the source whence it was derived. I am thus particular as to the contents of the paper, inasmuch as I have frequently conversed with my friends on the subject, since the Mormonite excitement began, and well remember that the paper contained any thing else but "Egyptian Hieroglyphics."

 

Some time after, the same farmer paid me a second visit. He brought with him the golden book in print, and offered it to me for sale. I declined purchasing. He then asked permission to leave the book with me for examination. I declined receiving it, although his manner was strangely urgent. I adverted once more to the roguery which had been in my opinion practised upon him, and asked him what had become of the gold plates. He informed me that they were in a trunk with the large pair of spectacles. I advised him to go to a magistrate and have the trunk examined. He said the "curse of God" would come upon him should he do this. On my pressing him, however, to pursue the course which I had recommended, he told me that he would open the trunk, if I would take the "curse of God" upon myself. I replied that I would do so with the greatest willingness, and would incur every risk of that nature, provided I could only extricate him from the grasp of rogues. He then left me.

I have thus given you a full statement of all that I know respecting the origin of Mormonism, and must beg you, as a personal favor, to publish this letter immediately, should you find my name mentioned again by these wretched fanatics.

Yours respectfully, CHAS. ANTHON.

http://archive.org/stream/mormonismunvaile00howe#page/270/mode/2up

Thank goodness he wrote that letter, otherwise the Mormonites might have been telling only their version of the story for the next 180+ years.

Edited September 4, 2015 by cinepro

[hagoth7]

This is an interesting look at the Anthon Transcript by someone who analyzes "ciphers" and other written language mysteries:

 

.....

 

In response, yet again, I would suggest that readers consider the history and origins of shorthand in Western Civilization...tracing back to Tironian script (shorthand), which was introduced to the Roman Republic during the century before Christ by a slave named Marcus Tullius Tiro.

 

1. Tiro surfaced in Rome as a slave in Cicero's court, just as the slave Joseph surfaced in Pharoah's court, and just as Daniel surfaced in Nebuchadnezzar's court. 

2. Tiro surfaced in Cicero's service in the 50's BC, contemporary with Hagoth, some of whose ship's voyages earlier sailed northward, vanishing from Nephite history.

3. Those voyages vanished from Nephite history just as Julius Caesar was advancing into northern Europe, eventually conquering much of what we now call France and the Netherlands, and subsequently bringing tens of thousands of people enslaved in northern Europe southward to Rome.

4. Even critics of the Nephite record point out the striking similarities between Tironian shorthand and a surpising number of the Nephite "caractors" on the Anthon manuscript.

5. In Latin, the language spoken by Cicero and Julius Caesar, the very name Tiro means "newcomer" or "fresh recruit".

 

You are each free to believe what you wish, but for a number of reasons, above and beyond those listed above, I believe that Tiro was a newly arrived Nephite.

Edited September 8, 2015 by hagoth7

[piccione]

Those interested in reading the book involving the Translation of the Book of Mormon Caractors Document that I have just completed, I have set up a website where it can be accessed.www.bookofmormoncaractorstranslation.com I will be adding the Table of Contents and Index sometime next week, but the book is complete. If you have any comments or suggestions I would appreciate any feedback. As you read the analysis, you will see the Mesoamerican elements in the document. The electronic version of the book is free, when published the hard copy will be available at cost.

Also on that website is a link for free access to a book I published earlier this year entitled The Geology of the Book of Mormon.