Hillel2 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Perhaps this topic has been addressed before but I have not encountered it. I have always been a bit perplexed as to how Christians understand forgiveness in general. So… How do You understand the concept of forgiveness particularly in relation to LDS beliefs? Is forgiveness the act of publically renouncing a claim on one who has offended You or is it an inward change? Can it be one without the other? If it is an inward change, how is it effected (G_d’s grace?) Should one publically forgive though one does not feel it in ones heart? If one publically forgives but cannot relinquish their “grudge” in their heart, are they liable before G_d? Why does one forgive another? Is it only so that we may be forgiven for our own sins (practical) or is it imitative of Jesus (spiritual)? Should one publically forgive someone who does not desire it or who derives satisfaction from their misdeed? Can we forgive sins against someone else or only for our own pain? Suppose that someone kills my spouse and, repenting, asks my forgiveness. When I forgive, is it only for the pain that he caused me or does it include the act against my spouse? If not, does part of their total forgiveness depend on my spouse forgiving them across the grave? Normative Judaism teaches that G will forgive us for those sins we commit against Providence but not for those we commit against each other. Does G_d forgive the repentant SS officer who cannot atone for his crimes in this life even if those affected by his deeds do not forgive him or does G_d wait until all offended parties have forgiven the perpetrator? Are those who desire forgiveness required to attempt compensation? If so, why should those who have been offended not expect compensation? Inasmuch as G_d does seem to expect a change of heart and behavior, is that because G_d is G_d/has suffered the undeserved consequences of free choice and we humans do not have that option because we are not innocent? Is there a greater danger in being ready to forgive, for example, can it encourage the spread of undesirable behaviors (I am NOT equating forgiveness with condoning). Let’s say, someone does something heinous, tries to compensate me within their power and asks my forgiveness. Might my forgiveness give too much of an open door to those who would do bad things? If we say some things are beyond the pale, can that be an incentive against evil? I apologize for not keeping it simple but I find this a complex topic with lots of different ramifications depending on how it is answered. Thank You.
Glenn101 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 We only have the power to forgive those whom have actually caused us hurt. We can forgive a person for the hurt they caused by killing a relative, etc., but Only God has the power to forgive the sin itself. Forgiveness is an internal thing. It can be accompanied by an external sign, such as speech, etc. but the actual forgiveness is spiritual. We can forgive whether the object of our forgiveness desires it or not. Often they couldn't care less about how we feel. We cannot say who God will forgive. The Lord has said "I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men." (Doctrine and Covenants 64:10) (I am answering from what I understand of LDS theology.) Seeking forgiveness requires restitution on the part of the trespasser, as far as it is possible. There are some cases where restitution may not be possible. The Atonement covers all cases where sincere repentance is sought. A person who has been offended may be due compensation, or restitution, by law, morals, or ethics. But to be a truly forgiving person, if the offender is not able to restore that which was taken, we must walk away. That does not mean that we cannot try to recover something through legal means. Yet, sometimes, even if that were possible, the better way just might be to forgive and forget. For example, I know a man with a stepdaughter who has taken him on a ride for several thousand dollars. There came a point in time when he had had enough and closed the door, but rather than pursue legal means to recover some of that money, yet he decided to forgive that debt and he says that he feels at peace with her and himself over the matter. This same man was taken by a lawyer for over seven thousand dollars he had paid for services that were never performed. He went to another lawyer for advice, and found that his erstwhile lawyer had been beaten and abused by her husband and was undergoing psychiatric treatment. He and his wife walked away with forgiveness and well wishes in their hearts. I do not believe that there is the greater danger in forgiving as the Lord has commanded. The greater danger lies in letting hate canker ones soul (in my opinion). There is a difference in forgiveness and trust. One can forgive another a trespass, but that does not require that we trust such an individual. Maybe I have not answered all of your questions, and there may be some who disagree with my perspective, but I am answering from the way I understand the doctrine and the way i feel about forgiveness. Glenn 1
CV75 Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 How do You understand the concept of forgiveness particularly in relation to LDS beliefs?I have to do it to receive it. This is a good article: https://www.lds.org/topics/forgiveness?lang=eng And one I just read yesterday: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/04/young-adults/my-heart-is-whole?lang=eng
CV75 Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Perhaps this topic has been addressed before but I have not encountered it. I have always been a bit perplexed as to how Christians understand forgiveness in general. So… Can we forgive sins against someone else or only for our own pain? When we are offended in an empathetic way, yes. The directly offended party may or may not be as empathetic toward your forgiveness as you are toward his pain. When I forgive, is it only for the pain that he caused me or does it include the act against my spouse? That depends on how you feel about it. If not, does part of their total forgiveness depend on my spouse forgiving them across the grave? Not all all, in any case; he is forgiven only when he repents and forgives. …does G_d wait until all offended parties have forgiven the perpetrator? God does not wait. Are those who desire forgiveness required to attempt compensation? Yes, restitution within one’s capacity to do so (which I guess is never enough, hence the need for grace) is part of repentance. If so, why should those who have been offended not expect compensation? It is better for oneself to forgive without it. Inasmuch as G_d does seem to expect a change of heart and behavior, is that because G_d is G_d/has suffered the undeserved consequences of free choice and we humans do not have that option because we are not innocent? Everything good comes about because of the Atonement, including His expectations of us. …Might my forgiveness give too much of an open door to those who would do bad things? It might, but it might also have the opposite effect. The perpetrator would have to repent of taking advantage of hat, not you. If we say some things are beyond the pale, can that be an incentive against evil? That has been done, but God is the judge of unpardonable sin.
The Nehor Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 I am pretty sure we get judged by the same standard we apply to others so forgiveness is like a cheat code to get out of hell. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) I know it's hard but we have to forgive everyone. It's what our responsibility is. And we will be greatly blessed if we do so. Just look at the Amish community when there was a shooting. They forgave. Edited April 15, 2015 by VideoGameJunkie
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