Did God Remove Oliver Cowdary's Name From His Patriarchal Blessing?

[Calm]

Looks like they might have to damage the wall:

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/lahbasket/media/West%20Point/102_3655.jpg.html

[Investigating]

Could this blessing apply to anyone other than Oliver?

 

 

even the records that have been hid from  <the first ages, from> generation to generation shall he be an instrument in the hands of his God, with his brother Joseph, of transla ting and bringing forth to the house of Israel.

 

Were Joseph and Oliver the only men involved in the actual translation the ancient records of the Nephites and the Jaredites?

 

Could this blessing have been transferred to someone else after Oliver's name was removed?

 

Did anyone help Joseph translate the book of Abraham, The Book of Moses, or the JST?

[Calm]

There were a number of scribes if that is what you are talking about.

To resolve your concern, you should spend time studying the translation process as well as the lives of those involved. Maxwell institute and BYU Studies as well as the Interpreter has a ton of info on it.

[Investigating]

So the blessing of being "an instrument in the hands of his God, with his brother Joseph, of translating and bringing forth to the house of Israel (records that have been hid from generation to generation)" could have been given to Oliver, but ultimately meant for someone else (and transferred to them when Oliver disqualified himself, as God foresaw he would)?

 

Was Hyrum (Joseph's literal "brother") involved in translating the Book of Mormon (or the Book of Abraham)?

Edited February 21, 2015 by Investigating

[Kenngo1969]

Whether or not God's hand was in the removal of Oliver's name from the blessing (whether He did it Himself or inspired someone else to do it ... but, if so, why remove all but one instance of Oliver's name from the document?), there are plenty of other miraculous occurrences that attest to the divinity of the founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, if that's what you're looking for.  Conversely, whether or not a human hand removed Oliver's name against God's will, there have been (and will continue to be) such occurrences in the Church of Jesus Christ, if that's what you're looking for.  God gave us that pesky free will, and Christ spilled His blood for it.  As Elder Jeffrey R. Holland once said (paraphrasing), fallible, mortal, imperfect human beings are all God has ever had to work with: that must be terribly frustrating to Him, but He deals with it.  But, while unwise use of free will by humans may temporarily thwart God's purposes, it will not do so permanently.  As Paul wrote to the Romans, "All things (both good and, seemingly, bad) work together for the good of them that love God" (Romans 8:28).

 

As for Oliver's ultimate fate regardless of what blessings were bestowed upon him (or were removed/withheld from him) on Earth, that, too, is in God's hands.  I trust that, somehow, He will be perfectly just while, at the same time, being perfectly merciful.

 

Still at a loss why you're so concerned about this.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Investigating]

 

but, if so, why remove all but one instance of Oliver's name from the document?

 

If you take a look at it, you'll see that every instance of Oliver's name has been removed from the text of the document.

 

There is no exception.

 

The only place Oliver's name can be found is where he signed as clerk and recorder (and that's below the text of the document, not part of the document itself.)

 

 

Conversely, whether or not a human hand removed Oliver's name against God's will, there have been (and will continue to be) such occurrences in the Church of Jesus Christ

 

Can you give me any examples of a human hand removing someone else's name from a document like this in the entire history of the LDS Church?

 

I'm under the impression that this phenomena is entirely unique to Oliver's patriarchal blessing.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Investigating

[Kenngo1969]

If you take a look at it, you'll see that every instance of Oliver's name has been removed from the text of the document.

 

There is no exception.

 

The only place Oliver's name can be found is where he signed as clerk and recorder (and that's below the text of the document, not part of the document itself.)

 

OK.  So that means that whoever removed it removed every instance of Oliver's name in the document proper, but didn't remove his signature, or, far less likely, he signed it after all the instances of his name were removed. How?  Why?  Beats me!  I'm still at a loss for why it matters.

 

 

 

Can you give me any examples of a human hand removing someone else's name from a document like this in the entire history of the LDS Church?

 

I'm under the impression that this phenomena is entirely unique to Oliver's patriarchal blessing.

No.  You see, it doesn't matter to me nearly as much as it seems to matter to you.  I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for, and I wish you well, but I'm not apt to participate further in this thread.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[omni]

You seem to really want to believe that God had a hand in removing the names. You may be the only one who believes that, but it doesn't seem to be hurting anyone so I say go right ahead - you win!

[Investigating]

It's not that I want to believe Oliver lost out on his blessings, but even if I'm the first one to have noticed this, it seems really odd to me.

 

And I noticed it when I thought I was done investigating Mormonism, and had almost decided it was all false.

 

Now I keep thinking maybe Oliver really was a seer's scribe, and they really were translating ancient records, and Oliver really had these blessings until he lost them, and God was telling me this the night I noticed this oddity while looking at his patriarchal blessing on the Joseph Smith pages web site.

 

And I still haven't seen a convincing explanation as to why some unknown person would just remove his name from the document (without destroying the document itself), or what reason they would have for doing it (i.e. what they would have to gain by it.)

Edited February 22, 2015 by Investigating

[theplains]

Could God have removed Cowdery's name from this document because he turned against the prophet and broke his covenants?

 

And if God didn't do it, who did?

 

Unsigned testimonies don't amount to much. They can add or remove anyone's name without

proper signatures.

 

Regards,

Jim

[Investigating]

But that's one of the things I find striking here.

 

Nobody else's name seems to have been removed from a document like this (by God or anyone else.)

 

And the document is signed.

 

Oliver himself signed off as clerk and recorder.

 

Could that signify that he himself was responsible for removing his name from this record of the things promised to him (by disqualifying himself from these blessings)?

[Kenngo1969]

It's not that I want to believe Oliver lost out on his blessings, but even if I'm the first one to have noticed this, it seems really odd to me.

 

And I noticed it when I thought I was done investigating Mormonism, and had almost decided it was all false.

 

Now I keep thinking maybe Oliver really was a seer's scribe, and they really were translating ancient records, and Oliver really had these blessings until he lost them, and God was telling me this the night I noticed this oddity while looking at his patriarchal blessing on the Joseph Smith pages web site.

 

And I still haven't seen a convincing explanation as to why some unknown person would just remove his name from the document (without destroying the document itself), or what reason they would have for doing it (i.e. what they would have to gain by it.)

This is well-taken.  You couldn't have said it in the opening post, or at least earlier in the thread?  It seems you have found good seeds: Why not plant them and see what kind of fruit they bear?

[Investigating]

This is well-taken.  You couldn't have said it in the opening post, or at least earlier in the thread?  It seems you have found good seeds: Why not plant them and see what kind of fruit they bear?

 

So you do think God had something to do with this?

Edited February 24, 2015 by Investigating

[Kenngo1969]

So you do think God had something to do with this?

With removing Oliver's name from the blessing?  I don't know.  With using that possibility as a catalyst to induce you to inquire further (not just into the blessing, but with respect to the merit of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a whole)?  It's certainly possible.  I'll never say someone shouldn't engage in sincere, earnest inquiry, especially not with matters relating to the Church of Jesus Christ.  I do have a testimony that, whatever shortcomings he may have had, Oliver was an instrument in God's hands, but I don't recall a single significant event that led to it.   While I recognize that God has His own timing and we all have our own free will, I do have a testimony that the Book of Mormon and the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith have changed many lives (including my own and those of many people close to me) for the better.  I do have a testimony that, by the power of the Holy Ghost, we can know the truth of the Book of Mormon ... and of all things.  In my own experience, I've found that the spirit usually moves me to do something, whereby my needs are then met: pray; read the scriptures; ask for a priesthood blessing; undertake a certain educational or professional pursuit; and so on.  I wish you well.   

Edited February 24, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Investigating]

The document ID # of Oliver's blessing is 1569, but the numbers don't seem to be consecutive.

 

Does google archive old catch photos of web pages, and is there any way to get a look at them?

 

I have a feeling this ID number's been changed recently (the next blessing, to Frederick G. Williams, on page 13 of blessing book 1 is ID # 1459), and I'd like to get a look at an older version of the web page (say from a year ago, before I started this thread) to see what the ID # was.