Where Did The Stories Of Christ's Birth Come From?

[mnn727]

Last Sunday, I had the privilege of substitute teaching in EQ.  And if I'm teaching in December, then by golly we're going to read both accounts of Christ's birth in the New Testament and I'm going to point out how different they are.

 

  Any idea's

Yeah, perhaps you should have stuck with the lesson material given.

[intra]

Most likely they are somewhat made up for faith purposes. 

i'm curious as to what makes you think "made up stories" are any good for faith? 

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables,

when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,

but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

(2 Peter 1:16) 

from what i read, "vain imaginations" are not good: 

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;

but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

(Romans 1:21) 

if you believe the scriptures are deceit, what spirit have you attributed them to? 

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning,

and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

(John 8:44) 

what is it to call the inspiration of the Holy Spirit the work of a devil?

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 

Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

(Mark 3:29-30) 

 

i should be terrified to call the scripture 'made up' for fear of the Father! 

if you call one scripture "lies" how do you put your trust in any other? 

 

[pogi]

i should be terrified to call the scripture 'made up' for fear of the Father! 

if you call one scripture "lies" how do you put your trust in any other?

 

I trust in the spirit, and not always in the word and works of man.

 

1 Kings 4:26  - "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."

2 Chronicles  9:25  - "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen..." 

 

Hmmm, which one is "lies"?  Do I have to throw out my trust in all scripture now?

Edited December 22, 2014 by pogi

[cinepro]

Yeah, perhaps you should have stuck with the lesson material given.

For the record, I fully covered the assigned lesson material as well. And since it was a lesson about "The Birth of Jesus Christ", it was hardly off-topic.

[intra]

Hmmm, which one is "lies"? 

there is a great difference between a transcription error distinguishing 4 from 40 and calling the entire gospel narrative a "made up story" 

 

[Robert F. Smith]

........................................................   

1 Kings 4:26  - "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."

2 Chronicles  9:25  - "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen..." 

................................................................. 

That is only one difference between the descriptions of I Kings and II Chronicles.  Here are a few more:

5:7b-8 vs II Chr 2:11-12 (considerable difference from Vorlage?)

7:15-16 vs II Chr 3:15 (were the columns 18, or 35 cubits high?)

7:26 vs II Chr 4:5 (bronze sea of 2,000, or of 3,000 baths?)

 

We also have differences within I Kings itself between the Massoretic Text and the Greek Septuagint:

6:1 (MT) vs 6:1 (LXX) (480, or 440 years?)

11:26 - 12:33 MT vs 11:26 - 12:33 LXX (significant differences between the versions)          

12:1-24 MT vs 12:1-24a-z LXX (Vaticanus & Lucianic resc) (which is the correct?  short or long version?)    

 

There are thousands of such differences in the Bible.         

[pogi]

there is a great difference between a transcription error distinguishing 4 from 40 and calling the entire gospel narrative a "made up story" 

 

 

Good, then we both agree that the scriptures are imperfect and cannot always be trusted to be acurate.  I am only pointing out a simple example of why we do not need to toss out all scripture if one scripture is wrong or cannot be trusted.  If a transcription error could be made, why not a translation error?  What about the error of not including books that should have been included, or including books that perhaps don't deserve to be called scripture (Song of Solomon)?

[Robert F. Smith]

Good, then we both agree that the scriptures are imperfect and cannot always be trusted to be acurate.  I am only pointing out a simple example of why we do not need to toss out all scripture if one scripture is wrong or cannot be trusted.  If a transcription error could be made, why not a translation error?  What about the error of not including books that should have been included, or including books that perhaps don't deserve to be called scripture (Song of Solomon)?

Good points, and we need to bear in mind that some books may have been excluded only because they "seemed" undeserving of inclusion in the canon. For example, the Song of Songs is seen by some scholars as a ritual and temple text:

 

G. Lloyd Carr, “Is the Song of Songs a ‘Sacred Marriage’ Drama?” Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society, 2 (June 1979):103-114, online at http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/22/22-2/22-2-pp103-114_JETS.pdf ; T. J. Meek, “Babylonian Parallels to the Song of Songs,” JBL, 43 (1924):245-252; Meek, “Canticles and the Fertility Cult,” in W. H. Schoof, ed., A Symposium on the Song of Songs (Oriental Club of Philadelphia, 1924); cf. S. N. Kramer, The Sacred Marriage Rite: Aspects of Faith, Myth, and Ritual in Ancient Sumer (Bloomington: Indiana University, 1969), 99; Hayim ben Yosef Tawil discusses the “setting” of the Song of Songs as “the royal couple in their natural environment in the garden.  Consequently, in light of both Akk. epigraphical and iconographical sources, perhaps [ʻereś] in SoS 1:16 might be the etymological and the semantic equivalent of Akk. qirsu” or qersu, meaning “a sacred area; arbor, bower."  Tawil, Akkadian Lexical Companion for Biblical Hebrew  (KTAV, 2009), 285-286.