WysteriaBlue Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 What were some of the first government programs cut during the beginning of the recent recession?Healthcare, food and programs for homeless, medicare/medicaid, children's food programs, supplemental nutrition programs for premature infants, and women.... How many of those programs have been reinstituted or re-funded?When they talked about defense budget cuts, what did they try to cut first? Payrolls, benefits for soldier's families, VA programs etc....no, not new airplanes, overpriced drones or overpriced weapons....What is the most common reason for bankruptcy?Huge medical bills...and mortgages pushed on folks who could not afford them....What is the hue and cry right now over why younger folks cannot buy homes?Large education loans to get the education to support themselves and their families...and now they are trying to raise restrictions again for more predatory loans!One of the fastest growing industries? Predatory paycheck loans, bank fees, and credit cards that raise the cost of goods by charging retailers more to 'give' us free "points"...Biggest reason for recession/depression?Banks and wall street greed and very risky "repackaging" of those risky loans into 'investment' vehicles....Who has benefitted the most economically in last 20 years?Banks, illegal drug producers, day traders, pharmaceutical companies, and corporations outfitting the war machine...Who has paid the most emotionally, socially, and economically?The poor, sick, women, children, mentally ill and the elderly...Who are some of the wealthiest corporate/financial entities in terms of property/capital/cash etc?Pharmaceutical companies, the Roman Catholic Church, aeronautical corporations, computer related corps, financial instiutions, the LDS church, oil/gas corporations, etc, etc...Elder Uchtdorf made clear he was not just speaking of the financially poor...And not to rush out to support social welform programs injudiciously, but action is needed for the less fortunate and won't come from simply witholding monies from an addicted relative. Just as closing the borders to travelers from West Africa and sticking our heads in the sand will only greatly increase our vulnerability to the 'proceeds' of the disparate distibution of wealth and the results of neglecting the less fortunate and our natural resources.Staying the course, going through the motions, deliberate ignorance, adding to our nation's debt, and stockpiling wealth will not stave off what is hovering over all of us. It is easy to say..educate them...let them help themselves...they need to work harder...they need to make better decisions...they need to be stronger...etc.Look what "they" are up against! How many here have to choose paying for medicine vs paying for food, or losing their job or losing their children, or should I walk 10 miles for clean water or go to school?them vs 'us' just doesn't cut it now does it?Yes, I think Elder Uchtdorf was the only one 'trying' to say more than just the company line. I also am very afraid he will be the one under the greatest pressure to change his tone and conciliatory stance and desire to do more both within and outside of the church membership. That makes me very sad indeed...President Monson has offered a quiet but firm balance and sense of justice that will be missed if we lose his voice. That's what I heard through my 'lenses' and faulty hearing aids, mental imbalance, and voiceless cries. It will take a lot more than simple answers and fast offerings.
ksfisher Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 What does "wwmd" stand for? I must have missed it in your post. I also think that your speculation that President Uchdorf is not in harmony with the rest of the apostles is false. Your accusation that the apostle toe the "company line" doesn't ring true either. 2
MormonFreeThinker Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) 2 Nephi 9:30 But wo unto the rich, who are rich as to the things of the world. For because they are rich they despise the poor Proverbs 22:16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want. NIV One who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and one who gives gifts to the rich—both come to poverty "Equally worrisome is the ever-growing gap between the rich and poor" - Elder M. Russell Ballard, General Conferencehttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/that-the-lost-may-be-found?lang=eng "We can easily forget that a major percentage of the world’s people live in poverty, seriously lacking necessities. What should we do about this gap between those with plenty and those living in poverty? Do we have an individual responsibility to help alleviate poverty? Does the Church, now a worldwide institution, have a responsibility to help? Is caring for the poor merely a good thing to do or an imperative duty?" - Elder John K. Carmackhttp://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=982 Edited October 7, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 What does "wwmd" stand for? I must have missed it in your post.Thought there was one to many W's. But I am not sure.
Calm Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) What would Monson do probably....One of the best thing we can do is give to the missionary fund and the humanitarian funds. The Church is careful to put its money where it can actually do good (Sharon Eubank referenced that it was harder to find the right person to ensure this than it was to find the money iirc in her FM presentation). And becoming members and living the gospel is directly correlated with an improvement in the standard of living even among the poor (in part due to the education and training available through the Church I believe). Edited October 7, 2014 by calmoriah
ksfisher Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 What would Monson do probably.... I'd never heard that one before.
mormonnewb Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 I don't know anything about the positions of the individual players, but I do think that there is a "de facto" party line. It is pretty clear that the Church is officially on "Team Power." In other words, in almost all cases, we are firmly aligned with those in power. For example, in the last few decades, the U.S. has initiated about a half dozen or so armed conflicts. Yet, I find it inconceivable that our current leadership would ever speak out against the U.S. government for its actions. And while the Church might not think that it has a legitimate role in discussing U.S. foreign policy (although other churches do regularly weigh in on the topic), it won't even advise the saints as to whether they should support a particular action as soldiers. When it comes to war, the Church is all-in every time. In fact, we even go so far as to make unique garments so that the saints don't have to let their temple covenants get in their way of their mission as soldiers (when perhaps, those same covenants should actually inform whether to participate in the mission itself). Likewise, while our Church will push for laws to protect citizens from the evils of pornography, I can't imagine that it would push for, say, reforms in predatory lending or student lending policies. Why not? Is crippling poverty not every bit as harmful to the family as porn or, say, booze? To me, the answer is because the Church's enemies in one case are the hated and despised (i.e., pornographers). In the other case, the Church's enemies would be the rich and powerful -- people who belong to the best country clubs and even our very own Church. These are people who could (and would) fight back. So why not simply rail against those who are already despised? This was certainly the case in our "bold" action against gays and lesbians in Prop 8. Of course, in the end, it turned out that these folks were a lot more powerful than we thought they were. Hey, you win some, you lose some. Go Team Powerful! Note: Yes, I know that this comes off as being extremely negative towards the Church. But I sincerely invite you to demonstrate why my negativity is misplaced by pointing out times in which the Church has aligned itself with the weak against the strong. I'm sure I'm just seeing things through my half-empty lens, so please feel free to "fill me up."
WysteriaBlue Posted October 7, 2014 Author Posted October 7, 2014 I guess I was thinking bigger today, and meant no disrespect to the apostles for hearing perhaps a bit of extra empathy at times from Elder Uchtdorf in terms of the disenfranchised...I was not trying to say they were divided or in any other way say something offensive. I was originally thinking what would Mormons do in terms of the abbreviation...just like what would Jesus do if facing today's dilemmas on a world wide scale.It is an overpowering question at times to look beyond the borders of ward or state or nation in terms of how to be the best one can be, no? How to truly help and make a difference...I guess just a conciousness raiser, not an indictment. With so many resources available...don't you ever wonder if we do enough??? I've been reading so many comments on other threads touching these complex and interrelated issues but was afraid to interrupt. Is it wrong to just ask if we do enough and see beyond?
Tacenda Posted October 7, 2014 Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) What were some of the first government programs cut during the beginning of the recent recession?Healthcare, food and programs for homeless, medicare/medicaid, children's food programs, supplemental nutrition programs for premature infants, and women.... How many of those programs have been reinstituted or re-funded?When they talked about defense budget cuts, what did they try to cut first? Payrolls, benefits for soldier's families, VA programs etc....no, not new airplanes, overpriced drones or overpriced weapons....What is the most common reason for bankruptcy?Huge medical bills...and mortgages pushed on folks who could not afford them....What is the hue and cry right now over why younger folks cannot buy homes?Large education loans to get the education to support themselves and their families...and now they are trying to raise restrictions again for more predatory loans!One of the fastest growing industries? Predatory paycheck loans, bank fees, and credit cards that raise the cost of goods by charging retailers more to 'give' us free "points"...Biggest reason for recession/depression?Banks and wall street greed and very risky "repackaging" of those risky loans into 'investment' vehicles....Who has benefitted the most economically in last 20 years?Banks, illegal drug producers, day traders, pharmaceutical companies, and corporations outfitting the war machine...Who has paid the most emotionally, socially, and economically?The poor, sick, women, children, mentally ill and the elderly...Who are some of the wealthiest corporate/financial entities in terms of property/capital/cash etc?Pharmaceutical companies, the Roman Catholic Church, aeronautical corporations, computer related corps, financial instiutions, the LDS church, oil/gas corporations, etc, etc...Elder Uchtdorf made clear he was not just speaking of the financially poor...And not to rush out to support social welform programs injudiciously, but action is needed for the less fortunate and won't come from simply witholding monies from an addicted relative. Just as closing the borders to travelers from West Africa and sticking our heads in the sand will only greatly increase our vulnerability to the 'proceeds' of the disparate distibution of wealth and the results of neglecting the less fortunate and our natural resources.Staying the course, going through the motions, deliberate ignorance, adding to our nation's debt, and stockpiling wealth will not stave off what is hovering over all of us. It is easy to say..educate them...let them help themselves...they need to work harder...they need to make better decisions...they need to be stronger...etc.Look what "they" are up against! How many here have to choose paying for medicine vs paying for food, or losing their job or losing their children, or should I walk 10 miles for clean water or go to school?them vs 'us' just doesn't cut it now does it?Yes, I think Elder Uchtdorf was the only one 'trying' to say more than just the company line. I also am very afraid he will be the one under the greatest pressure to change his tone and conciliatory stance and desire to do more both within and outside of the church membership. That makes me very sad indeed...President Monson has offered a quiet but firm balance and sense of justice that will be missed if we lose his voice. That's what I heard through my 'lenses' and faulty hearing aids, mental imbalance, and voiceless cries. It will take a lot more than simple answers and fast offerings.CFR on those government program cuts you mention. Edited October 7, 2014 by Tacenda
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