Towards A Better Understanding Of Same Sex Attraction And Sin

[rockpond]

You should read this, the homosexual lifestyle is not what you claim it is-http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles8/Lee-The-Truth-About-The-Homosexual-Rights-Movement.php

As you read through all these articles and reports, you might also consider the impact of our (the greater Christian population) words and actions over the past century. Could excluding homosexuals from our religious communities have contributed to their cultural norms? Could kicking gay youth out of their homes/families have contributed to increased promiscuity and disease? Does telling them that their relationships are an abomination in the eyes of God and unworthy of legal recognition possibly affect their own view of those relationships? Especially in an anthropological view?

You cite these examples of the negatives of the "gay lifestyle". I wonder... Are we really just innocent bystanders? And, what should we do to help things change?

[halconero]

Here is the CDC (Center for Disease Control) report of facts concerning HIV infections amongst the gay in this country http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/index.html

If gay people say it isn't about the sex and that they can be have the same monogamous relationships as heterosexuals then why is the spread of HIV/ AIDS the highest in gay and bisexuals?

The facts do not lie. Homosexual behavior leads to promiscuous behavior across the board. It is not a healthy lifestyle.

 

It's more specific than all gay people. A lesbian, infected with HIV/AIDS, is not very likely to spread the disease to any same-sex partners that she has. HIV infections are higher in homosexual males simply because the nature of sex between them is more conducive to infection than in a sexual relationship between a heterosexual or female homosexual couple. **** sex produces some interior cuts and tearing in most cases, and it is this which allows the HIV/AIDS virus to enter into the blood stream. Other forms of sex are less likely to allow this.

 

I'm sorry, your "there's more HIV/AIDS among gay people, therefore they're having more sex, indicating promiscuity" is wrong.

[Brian 2.0]

Eating sugar won't keep me out of heaven. Homosexual behavior will lead me straight to hell with no escape. I will take sugar any day.

But why the need to connect it to promiscuous behavior? If homosexual behavior is already a sin, who cares if it's promiscuous or not?

[rockpond]

By the above definition... no. You can't be condemned for something you unintentionally failed to do

That being said, the specific point I was making was about those involved in homosexual behavior, which is sin. Unless they repent, they cannot partake and the Priesthood are not under condemnation for refusing to perform the ordinance. Now, if they refuse for the simple fact of the homosexual feelings, they will have to answer for their inaction.

Maybe inadvertent was the wrong word. What I was trying to get at was if we possibly bear any condemnation for keeping married gay couples out of the temple if we someday realize that we were wrong as we did with blacks?

[rockpond]

Eating sugar won't keep me out of heaven. Homosexual behavior will lead me straight to hell with no escape. I will take sugar any day.

Once again, I can't possibly imagine why our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in the church wouldn't feel completely welcome among the saints.

[Rodeo]

As you read through all these articles and reports, you might also consider the impact of our (the greater Christian population) words and actions over the past century. Could excluding homosexuals from our religious communities have contributed to their cultural norms? Could kicking gay youth out of their homes/families have contributed to increased promiscuity and disease? Does telling them that their relationships are an abomination in the eyes of God and unworthy of legal recognition possibly affect their own view of those relationships? Especially in an anthropological view?

You cite these examples of the negatives of the "gay lifestyle". I wonder... Are we really just innocent bystanders? And, what should we do to help things change?

My opinion is that we should combat the gay rights movement with truth and reason. We should also target the pornography industry, label them as "the enemy". That would be a great start. We can teach more tolerance to all and to those who struggle with same sex temptations to resist these temptations and teach them that following these temptations, no matter how strong they may be do not lead to happiness or fulfillment of joy like they think that it will. We can get back to placing "family first" above jobs and monetary lusts. We can re-establish marriage and family as holy religious constructs ordained by God and get politics out of ruling on these matters of the which the church should have sole rights to (being able to marry and counsel family). lso along with all this we need to get Hollywood to stop wrongly portraying homosexuality as "normal" and "acceptable". We can convince church and other organizations like the Catholic clergy and the BSA to be more inclusive to both sexes and not create breeding grounds for homosexuality or places that attract such lifestyles. We can go after and directly attack and destroy organizations like the [ do not give links to offensive sites] as criminal conspirators that actively seek to destroy Gods children. We can be more truthful and open minded to the realization that the gay rights movement is not really about equal rights as if they are a race but in fact is a movement to demoralize and corrupt society.

Those are just a few things we need to do.

[Rodeo]

It's more specific than all gay people. A lesbian, infected with HIV/AIDS, is not very likely to spread the disease to any same-sex partners that she has. HIV infections are higher in homosexual males simply because the nature of sex between them is more conducive to infection than in a sexual relationship between a heterosexual or female homosexual couple. **** sex produces some interior cuts and tearing in most cases, and it is this which allows the HIV/AIDS virus to enter into the blood stream. Other forms of sex are less likely to allow this.

 

I'm sorry, your "there's more HIV/AIDS among gay people, therefore they're having more sex, indicating promiscuity" is wrong.

The stats don't lie. The spread of HIV in America amongst youth and young adult is highest in the homosexual population. The reason is specifically because of their increased amount of sexual partners. The numbers do not lie. Young gay males in this country have more sex partners than anyone else which is th ecause of the spread of HIV.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Wait, NAMBLA is real? I thought it was just a joke on South Park.

[Rodeo]

But why the need to connect it to promiscuous behavior? If homosexual behavior is already a sin, who cares if it's promiscuous or not?

How about the overall mental and physical health of American citizens? The increased promiscuous lifestyles of the homosexual population are one of the main causes of the HIV/Aids epidemic. Besides that it is also one of the leading causes ofthe increase in pornography which effects the whole population.

[rockpond]

My opinion is that we should combat the gay rights movement with truth and reason. We should also target the pornography industry, label them as "the enemy". That would be a great start. We can teach more tolerance to all and to those who struggle with same sex temptations to resist these temptations and teach them that following these temptations, no matter how strong they may be do not lead to happiness or fulfillment of joy like they think that it will. We can get back to placing "family first" above jobs and monetary lusts. We can re-establish marriage and family as holy religious constructs ordained by God and get politics out of ruling on these matters of the which the church should have sole rights to (being able to marry and counsel family). lso along with all this we need to get Hollywood to stop wrongly portraying homosexuality as "normal" and "acceptable". We can convince church and other organizations like the Catholic clergy and the BSA to be more inclusive to both sexes and not create breeding grounds for homosexuality or places that attract such lifestyles. We can go after and directly attack and destroy organizations like the [blank] as criminal conspirators that actively seek to destroy Gods children. We can be more truthful and open minded to the realization that the gay rights movement is not really about equal rights as if they are a race but in fact is a movement to demoralize and corrupt society.Those are just a few things we need to do.

I'm not even sure how to respond to that hodgepodge of (mostly off-topic) ideas. You want to keep politics out of religion but don't seem to mind having religion dictate politics. You want family first but refuse to recognize families that don't fit your beliefs. You speak of tolerance but claim the gay rights movement is demoralizing and corrupting.

While I would be in favor of spending more of our influence in combating pornography, divorce, and child abuse (rather than fighting gay marriage), I see very little in your words here that hearkens to my beliefs as a Latter-day Saint.

[rockpond]

How about the overall mental and physical health of American citizens? The increased promiscuous lifestyles of the homosexual population are one of the main causes of the HIV/Aids epidemic. Besides that it is also one of the leading causes ofthe increase in pornography which effects the whole population.

Well then, I'm sure the solution is to tell them that their committed and covenant relationships are unworthy of public recognition.

[bcuzbcuz]

My opinion is that we should combat the gay rights movement with truth and reason. We should also target the pornography industry, label them as "the enemy". That would be a great start. We can teach more tolerance to all and to those who struggle with same sex temptations to resist these temptations and teach them that following these temptations, no matter how strong they may be do not lead to happiness or fulfillment of joy like they think that it will. We can get back to placing "family first" above jobs and monetary lusts. We can re-establish marriage and family as holy religious constructs ordained by God and get politics out of ruling on these matters of the which the church should have sole rights to (being able to marry and counsel family). lso along with all this we need to get Hollywood to stop wrongly portraying homosexuality as "normal" and "acceptable". We can convince church and other organizations like the Catholic clergy and the BSA to be more inclusive to both sexes and not create breeding grounds for homosexuality or places that attract such lifestyles. We can go after and directly attack and destroy organizations like the blank as criminal conspirators that actively seek to destroy Gods children. We can be more truthful and open minded to the realization that the gay rights movement is not really about equal rights as if they are a race but in fact is a movement to demoralize and corrupt society.Those are just a few things we need to do.

Thank you. I would never have known about NAMBLA if you hadn´t named it.

[VideoGameJunkie]

It would suck to be gay and then have to know that you have to spend your whole life fighting your sexual desires and emotions. I would be asking what I did wrong in the pre mortal existence to wind up with that situation.

[Rodeo]

I'm not even sure how to respond to that hodgepodge of (mostly off-topic) ideas. You want to keep politics out of religion but don't seem to mind having religion dictate politics. You want family first but refuse to recognize families that don't fit your beliefs. You speak of tolerance but claim the gay rights movement is demoralizing and corrupting.

While I would be in favor of spending more of our influence in combating pornography, divorce, and child abuse (rather than fighting gay marriage), I see very little in your words here that hearkens to my beliefs as a Latter-day Saint.

Actually, my beliefs in family are the same as the Church. Gay marriage is not the definition of family. The gay rights movement is demoralizing our society. Look at what its done to the institution of heterosexual marriage. The gay rights movement doesn't want religion. They do not want God preached to them. They want freedom from religion and morals. Thats a fact.

[Rodeo]

Well then, I'm sure the solution is to tell them that their committed and covenant relationships are unworthy of public recognition.

And just what is the statistical average for a gay committed and covenant relationship to stay together, remain monogamous and be happy? Less than 1%!. Perhaps that is even impossible. One of the lies the gay rights movement wants people to believe is that most homosexual relationships are happy, fulfilling, monogamous relationships that deserve the same protective rights as religious heterosexual monogamous marriages. This is not the truth. A great many homosexual relationships and same sex marriages are built around infidelity and non monogamous agreements.

[Brian 2.0]

And just what is the statistical average for a gay committed and covenant relationship to stay together, remain monogamous and be happy? Less than 1%!. Perhaps that is even impossible. One of the lies the gay rights movement wants people to believe is that most homosexual relationships are happy, fulfilling, monogamous relationships that deserve the same protective rights as religious heterosexual monogamous marriages. This is not the truth. A great many homosexual relationships and same sex marriages are built around infidelity and non monogamous agreements.

Wow. Just... wow.

[Brian 2.0]

And just what is the statistical average for a gay committed and covenant relationship to stay together, remain monogamous and be happy? Less than 1%!. Perhaps that is even impossible. One of the lies the gay rights movement wants people to believe is that most homosexual relationships are happy, fulfilling, monogamous relationships that deserve the same protective rights as religious heterosexual monogamous marriages. This is not the truth. A great many homosexual relationships and same sex marriages are built around infidelity and non monogamous agreements.

CFR please on this statistical average you speak of. And comparing it to the average heterosexual relationship would be nice to, since not all of those "stay together, remain monogamous, and are happy" either.

[rockpond]

It would suck to be gay and then have to know that you have to spend your whole life fighting your sexual desires and emotions. I would be asking what I did wrong in the pre mortal existence to wind up with that situation.

Wow. Maybe the same thing the blacks did. <note sarcasm>

I thought that we had debunked such ideas.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Well rockpond, why did God make some people gay if they can't act on who they are?

[rockpond]

Actually, my beliefs in family are the same as the Church. Gay marriage is not the definition of family. The gay rights movement is demoralizing our society. Look at what its done to the institution of heterosexual marriage. The gay rights movement doesn't want religion. They do not want God preached to them. They want freedom from religion and morals. Thats a fact.

CFR. For all of those statements you are claiming as fact. Or retract them.

What happened to our responsibility for tolerance, compassion, and love. Your language reflects none of that.

And the vast majority of families in the world do not subscribe to our same beliefs. The LDS Church's definition of family doesn't get to be the sole legal definition.

Finally, what has the gay rights movement done to heterosexual marriage?

[rockpond]

Well rockpond, why did God make some people gay if they can't act on who they are?

Good question. And not one that I need to ask myself since I don't believe that God is prohibiting them from acting on who they are.

Edited September 13, 2014 by rockpond

[VideoGameJunkie]

rockpond, do you support gay marriage in the church?

[rockpond]

And just what is the statistical average for a gay committed and covenant relationship to stay together, remain monogamous and be happy? Less than 1%!. Perhaps that is even impossible. One of the lies the gay rights movement wants people to believe is that most homosexual relationships are happy, fulfilling, monogamous relationships that deserve the same protective rights as religious heterosexual monogamous marriages. This is not the truth. A great many homosexual relationships and same sex marriages are built around infidelity and non monogamous agreements.

You've been asked for a reference on the statistic you mention above. I second that CFR. Please provide it or retract your statement.

It's obvious to me that you do not and cannot speak for the gay rights movement.

And if what you say here is true (thought I don't believe it is) it doesn't make a difference. As long as some want the legal recognition of marriage, I do not see a reason to deny it to them. My aunts have been together in a committed relationship for 18 years. They anxiously await marriage equality in Utah so that they can be legally married.

[rockpond]

rockpond, do you support gay marriage in the church?

Yes.

[cinepro]

Wait, NAMBLA is real? I thought it was just a joke on South Park.

 

Yes, the North-American Marlon Brando Look-Alikes are real.