Jewish Priests--Who Do Not Even Believe In Jesus--Can They Really Function As Mormon Bishops?

[Robert F. Smith]

And they would not function in the LDS Church without being baptized.

Of course, and (as the D&C points out) they would need to be approved by the First Presidency to function as a bishop by right of lineal descent from Aaron.

[Robert F. Smith]

How would we ever discover a descendent of Aaron in the first place, other than by revelation.

Many of the worlds Jews today are descended from European converts to Judaism (the Kazhars for example) and make up the bulk of the current Israeli population, and would carry no Aaronic bloodlines.

...................................................................  

Your information is only partially correct, and applies only to a portion of European (Ashkenazi) Jews, for which I provide the most recent genetic research conclusions below.  One must not ignore the majority of Jews in Israel today, who are Sephardic Jews (Jews who come from Spain, North Africa, Arabia, and nearby Muslim countries).  Genetic research shows that Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews are actually related to one another via DNA – “Population genetics reveals shared ancestries: DNA links modern Europeans, Middle Easterners to Sub-Saharan Africans,” ScienceDaily, May 24, 2011 (Harvard Medical School), http://www.sciencedaily.com- /releases/2011/05/110524153536.htm  ; Gil Atzmon, Li Hao, Itsik Pe'er, Christopher Velez, Alexander Pearlman, Pier Francesco Palamara, Bernice Morrow, Eitan Friedman, Carole Oddoux, Edward Burns, and Harry Ostrer, “Abraham's Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry,” American Journal of Human Genetics, 10 (June 2010), 1016; “Common genetic threads link thousands of years of Jewish ancestry,” ScienceDaily, June 4, 2011, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100603123707.htm . 

 

Even more important, however, is the fact that the Aaronic bloodline is not Jewish but Levite, and is tightly restricted by patrilineal descent, and marriage rules requiring any marriage outside the tribe of Levi to be with a Jewish woman who has 7 generations of Jewish descent already (no recent converts allowed).  The result is that the Kohen modal haplotype genetic marker in the Y-chromosome of descendants of Aaron:  which you can read about in Yaakov Kleiman, DNA & Tradition: The Genetic Link to the Ancient Hebrews (Devorah Publ, 2004), re CMH (Cohen Modal Haplotype) genetic markers in Cohanim, including YAP (Y-chromosome Alu Polymorphism), and five other such markers, i.e., there is evidence of a 3,000 year tradition of descent from Aaron in the form of his Y-chromosome; and in Patrick Young, "Lineage of the Aaronic Priesthood," at  http://judaicaworld.wordpress.com/lineage/ .

 

Jews and Khazaria

“Johns Hopkins Study Confirms European Jews are Khazars,” Community, Sept 19, 2012, online at  http://current.com/community/93907305_johns-hopkins-study-confirms-european-jews-are-khazars.htm  (citing http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1208/1208.1092.pdf and at http://current.com/13b10kc ),

 

[Abstract] The question of Jewish ancestry has been the subject of controversy for over two centuries and has yet to be resolved. The “Rhineland Hypothesis” proposes that Eastern European Jews emerged from a small group of German Jews who migrated eastward and expanded rapidly. Alternatively, the “Khazarian Hypothesis” suggests that Eastern European descended from Judean tribes who joined the Khazars, an amalgam of Turkic clans that settled the Caucasus in the early centuries CE and converted to Judaism in the 8th century. The Judaized Empire was continuously reinforced with Mesopotamian and Greco-Roman Jews until the 13th century. 

 

Following the collapse of their empire, the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe. The rise of European Jewry is therefore explained by the contribution of the Judeo-Khazars. Thus far, however, their contribution has been estimated only empirically; the absence of genome-wide data from Caucasus populations precluded testing the Khazarian Hypothesis. Recent sequencing of modern Caucasus populations prompted us to revisit the Khazarian Hypothesis and compare it with the Rhineland Hypothesis. We applied a wide range of population genetic analyses — including principal component, biogeographical origin, admixture, identity by descent, allele sharing distance, and uniparental analyses — to compare these two hypotheses. Our findings support the Khazarian Hypothesis and portray the European Jewish genome as a mosaic of Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries, thereby consolidating previous contradictory reports of Jewish ancestry.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Robert F. Smith

[mfbukowski]

 

Your title here is a bit odd:  Why can Jews not believe in the saving grace of Jesus the Messiah?

"Jewish Priests--Who Do Not Even Believe In Jesus--Can They Really Function As Mormon Bishops?"

Why can priests (cohens) among the Jews not believe in the saving grace of Jesus the Messiah?  Are you not aware of the many Messianic Jews?  As for the potential function as an LDS bishop without counselors, did you even bother to read the D&C on that issue?

 

As usual, he has no clue what he is talking about, but goes straight for the jugular every time.

[ksfisher]

As usual, he has no clue what he is talking about, but goes straight for the jugular every time.

 

Then the answer to the question would seem very simple as believing in Christ is a qualification for holding the priesthood.

[mfbukowski]

Never heard that one before.  Where did you come up with this?

uh, the bible....  You know- 12 tribes and all that?  Tribe of Judah is different than Levi?  Tribes got carried away and sacrifices stopped and they started worshiping in synagogues?  Does any of this sound familiar? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohen

Edited September 12, 2014 by mfbukowski

[ERayR]

As usual, he has no clue what he is talking about, but goes straight for the jugular every time.

 

It is difficult for a lap dog that can only reach the backs of ones legs to get the jugular but he does try.

[Canadaigua]

As usual, he has no clue what he is talking about, but goes straight for the jugular every time.

If you feel that you are right on this one and I am wrong explain it to me as this was discussed in the other thread.

[ERayR]

If you feel that you are right on this one and I am wrong explain it to me as this was discussed in the other thread.

 

I can not read your Bible for you.  Nobody can open up your head and pour it in.  To get an understanding you have to study it for yourself.  How many times do you have to get that message before you understand it? 

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

If you feel that you are right on this one and I am wrong explain it to me as this was discussed in the other thread.

I would kindly refer you to Roberts posts.

[Canadaigua]

Yes, CannyDayga does need to get back to basics, as do we all.

This thread is based on one of your posts from another thread that was closed.  In order for others to understand the context I will briefly recap.  There are several LDS leaders who have stated that in the "restoration" animal sacrifices will be resumed.  It seems clear that this will be done within the LDS church itself.  However several LDS posters disagreed and said what the LDS leaders really meant was that this is speaking about the Jews and end time animal sacrifices prior to the second coming of Christ.  Thus when speaking about these "priests" these are non LDS--non Christ believing Jews who are performing these animal sacrifices.  Now let's look at Robert Smiths post since this is where his comment fits into the dialogue.

 

"CannyDayga just doesn't get it, and he doesn't read the LDS Scriptures, or he would know that the sons of Aaron are priests by lineal right, even in Mormonism.  He might want to look in the D&C.  They primarily serve the tribe of Judah, but could request full function as a bishop within a Mormon congregation."

 

​So Robert do you stand by your quote above or would you like to modify it a little bit?

[Canadaigua]

Why can priests (cohens) among the Jews not believe in the saving grace of Jesus the Messiah?  Are you not aware of the many Messianic Jews?  As for the potential function as an LDS bishop without counselors, did you even bother to read the D&C on that issue?

 

"Are you not aware of the many Messianic Jews?"

 

Sure I am aware of "Messianic Jews".  In fact my pastor is a "Messianic Jew" and I can assure you we don't practice animal sacrifices--which of course is what we were discussing in the other thread.

[ERayR]

"Are you not aware of the many Messianic Jews?"

 

Sure I am aware of "Messianic Jews".  In fact my pastor is a "Messianic Jew" and I can assure you we don't practice animal sacrifices--which of course is what we were discussing in the other thread.

 

Arrrrrrrrrrg. (as I bash my head on the keyboard.

Edited September 12, 2014 by ERayR

[Vance]

It is now obvious that someone is incorrigible.

He keeps repeating the same drivel even though he has been corrected time and time again.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Arrrrrrrrrrg. (as I bash my head on the keyboard.

Yeah, I thought the same thing.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

It is now obvious that someone is incorrigible.

He keeps repeating the same drivel even though he has been corrected time and time again.

This is a case of some one that thinks they know what they are talking about when they don't. You can't help them because they don't see it and you can't make them see it.

[mfbukowski]

It is now obvious that someone is incorrigible.

He keeps repeating the same drivel even though he has been corrected time and time again.

The most telling fact is that there are many Evangelicals who post here, and are welcome and provide good discussions, but none have come to his defense.

 

He won't last long.

[Vance]

I have heard it said that "there is nothing more common than the desire to be exceptional", or something like that.

I wonder if he thought that he was going to be the exception. That he could come here, fresh out of the "witness to Mormons" training course and simply show us the error of our ways. That he would be the one that would FINALLY get us to crack open the Bible and see the OBVIOUS!

[Canadaigua]

The most telling fact is that there are many Evangelicals who post here, and are welcome and provide good discussions, but none have come to his defense.

 

He won't last long.

mfbukowski

As usual, he has no clue what he is talking about, but goes straight for the jugular every time  (post#28)

 

Canadaigua

If you feel that you are right on this one and I am wrong explain it to me as this was discussed in the other thread. (post#32)

 

 

I gave you the opportunity to explain it from your point of view but you have yet to do so.  Why not?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

 

 

 

I gave you the opportunity to explain it from your point of view but you have yet to do so.  Why not?

 

I will gladly answer if you can answer one question. To what end and what would it accomplish?

[mfbukowski]

 

mfbukowski

As usual, he has no clue what he is talking about, but goes straight for the jugular every time  (post#28)

 

Canadaigua

If you feel that you are right on this one and I am wrong explain it to me as this was discussed in the other thread. (post#32)

 

 

I gave you the opportunity to explain it from your point of view but you have yet to do so.  Why not?

 

You gave me nothing.  I already said all I have to say on the subject in post 30.

 

The answer is clear to anyone who has a cursory understanding of the bible- it is not my job to answer every person in the world who asks a bible question.

[Canadaigua]

You gave me nothing.  I already said all I have to say on the subject in post 30.

 

The answer is clear to anyone who has a cursory understanding of the bible- it is not my job to answer every person in the world who asks a bible question.

Your post (#28) and my response (#32) was a different subject than you addressed in post (#30).

 

It is obvious that posters are becoming frustrated. You need to be aware that when disagreements occur posters are expected to carefully document what they say. That will require the use of scholarship instead of personal beliefs or opinions that others don't share.

[Robert F. Smith]

BTW Technically, levites wouldn't be considered jews since they are from the tribe of Levi and not the tribe of Judah.

Depends on how  you use the word "Jew."  Some use it to include the entire community, regardless of any ancient tribal grouping, thus including Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.  Usually this does not include the ten lost tribes, because, by definition, they are not found yet.  You might want to ask yourself how Nephi uses the term "Jews."

[Robert F. Smith]

I am not sure why you say my title is a bit odd since your quote was in response to my posts in the other thread about non LDS Jewish priests and how that related to animal sacrifices that LDS leaders spoke about in the latter days.  Sounds like you are retracting what you have said in the other thread.  Perhaps you could clarify your position on this one.

You probably needed to look at the words in green.  I highlighted them because I thought them rather odd.  If you can't see that, oh well, maybe you can't deal with your own phrasing -- because it was you who inserted that odd characterization, which made no sense at all to me.  And you then refused to answer my question as to why a Jew could not possibly believe in the saving grace of Jesus the Messiah.

[Robert F. Smith]

There is a a lot of discussion about the possible role of DNA analysis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohen

I gave you a rep point for that insight.  Keep reading and you might finally get it.

[Robert F. Smith]

Never heard that one before.  Where did you come up with this?

See below, and especially my post #47.