Our Church Cares About The Trees

[Stone holm]

Regardless of whether the Church as an institution cares about the Creation, there is fairly ample evidence that many of its members are more interested in arguing over how it was created, than preserving it and the life associated with it.

[MormonFreeThinker]

 

No one has claimed it is CO2 alone. There are other Green House Gases that come into play. A significant one is CH4(Methane) a very potent GHG. 

 

Methane traps more heat, but CO2 is more abundant in the atmosphere. CO2 alone can cause climate change 

 

Edited June 29, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[thesometimesaint]

there isn't a question that human activity has indeed influenced the climate. I already agreed with you On that in my previous post. But we haven't heated the globe up. We've actually cooled it down. Because of all the polutants we pump into the air less and less sun light is making it into the atmosphere to be obsorbed. Its being reflected back into space. that's why all the recent satalites[sic] measuring how much energy is being reflected and obsorbed.

 

No we are not cooling down.

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-cooling.htm

[Stone holm]

There was one proposal to put a lot of sun blocking types of pollutants in the air in order to try and cool things down.  The problem, however, with the argument being made that we are cooling things down is that the gases which are causing the "greenhouse effect" are transparent and are trapping the heat.  If we could have several volcanoes going off at once, that could put enough particulate in the air to counteract the CO 2 and Methane pollution -- course that would also change life as we know it.  One might wonder if Gaia is actually sentient as Lovelock originally proposed, whether mother nature may just step in and solve the problem -- course if she does that may mean a near extinction event for the human race.

[thesometimesaint]

Methane traps more heat, but CO2 is more abundant in the atmosphere. CO2 alone can cause climate change 

 

 

True.

[Zakuska]

There was one proposal to put a lot of sun blocking types of pollutants in the air in order to try and cool things down. The problem, however, with the argument being made that we are cooling things down is that the gases which are causing the "greenhouse effect" are transparent and are trapping the heat. If we could have several volcanoes going off at once, that could put enough particulate in the air to counteract the CO 2 and Methane pollution -- course that would also change life as we know it. One might wonder if Gaia is actually sentient as Lovelock originally proposed, whether mother nature may just step in and solve the problem -- course if she does that may mean a near extinction event for the human race.

Water vapor and smog (aka clouds) aren't transparent and reflect most of the heat back into space. More clouds = less heat. Ergo,lower temperatures in Antartica ice by 3 degrees. For this inter glacial and record glacial ice in antarctica trapping Global Warming Scienti... er... alarmists in the ice. Ice cores dont lie. Edited June 30, 2014 by Zakuska

[thesometimesaint]

Water vapor and smog (aka clouds) aren't transparent and reflect most of the heat back into space. More clouds = less heat. Ergo,lower temperatures in Antartica ice by 3 degrees. For this inter glacial and record glacial ice in antarctica trapping Global Warming Scienti... er... alarmists in the ice. Ice cores dont lie.

 

Not true. The effects of clouds don't quite balance out because of wave length absorbing differences. Huge chunks of Antarctica ice are breaking off.

http://www.livescience.com/38078-pine-island-glacier-iceberg.htm

[Zakuska]

Not true. The effects of clouds don't quite balance out because of wave length absorbing differences. Huge chunks of Antarctica ice are breaking off.

http://www.livescience.com/38078-pine-island-glacier-iceberg.htm

That must be why this mornings news reads this huh?

Antarctic Sea Ice Growing Despite Global Warming Warnings

The sea ice coverage around Antarctica over the weekend marked a record high, with the ice surrounding the continent measuring at 2.07 million square kilometers, according to an environmentalist and author who says the ice there has actually been increasing since 1979 despite continued warnings of global warming.

The new record was posted for the first time by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign’s online record, The Cryosphere Today, early Sunday morning.

It's not apparent if the record actually occurred on Friday or Saturday, says Harold Ambler on his blog, Talking About the Weather.

Ambler is a journalist and author of the book "Don't Sell Your Coat: Surprising Truths About Climate Change."

"The previous record anomaly for Southern Hemisphere sea ice area was 1.840 million square kilometers and occurred on December 20, 2007," said Ambler. Meanwhile, he pointed out, global sea ice area on Sunday was standing at 0.991 million square kilometers above average, a figure he arrived at by adding anomalies for the North and South hemispheres.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/antarctic-sea-ice-growing/2014/06/29/id/579853/?promo_code=FF89-1&utm_source=WeaselZippers&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

From univerity of illinois itself.

Antartic sea ice hits new record

Sea ice extent in the Antarctic reached a record level in June with an anomaly of some 2.074 million square kilometers above the long term average, according to data published by the University of Illinois Polar Research Group (see top right).

This is statistically significant as the latest data published by the US National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) shows that sea ice extent in June is more than two standard deviations above the long term average for the period from 1981 to 2010, and has been since April (see bottom right).

http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/antarctic-sea-ice-hits-a-new-record-extent.html

You can actually get their raw data here:

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/SEAICE/

Edited June 30, 2014 by Zakuska

[MormonFreeThinker]

there isn't a question that human activity has indeed influenced the climate. I already agreed with you On that in my previous post. But we haven't heated the globe up. We've actually cooled it down. 

 

Most Global Warming skeptics say that the Earth is getting warmer, but that humans are not the cause, they say that it is the Sun.  

 

I have a question for you, did you know that the Earth was warmer in the past? Yes, the Earth has cooled down. 

 

"According to solar physicists, the sun emitted a third less energy about 4 billion years ago and has been steadily brightening ever since. Yet for most of this time, Earth has been even warmer than today, a phenomenon sometimes called the faint sun paradox. The reason: higher levels of greenhouse gases trapping more of the sun's heat." 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11650-climate-myths-global-warming-is-down-to-the-sun-not-humans.html

 

The Earth has cooled down, but it has been getting warmer again since the industrial revolution.

That is the reason why the Church is building solar power meeting houses. How do solar power meeting houses benefit the environment? 

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/solar-powered-construction-design-gets-green-light-from-church-leaders

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[Zakuska]

Most Global Warming skeptics say that the Earth is getting warmer, but that humans are not the cause, they say that it is the Sun.

I have a question for you, did you know that the Earth was warmer in the past? Yes, the Earth has cooled down.

"According to solar physicists, the sun emitted a third less energy about 4 billion years ago and has been steadily brightening ever since. Yet for most of this time, Earth has been even warmer than today, a phenomenon sometimes called the faint sun paradox. The reason: higher levels of greenhouse gases trapping more of the sun's heat."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11650-climate-myths-global-warming-is-down-to-the-sun-not-humans.html

The Earth has cooled down, but it has been getting warmer again since the industrial revolution.

That is the reason why the Church is building solar power meeting houses. How do solar power meeting houses benefit the environment?

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/solar-powered-construction-design-gets-green-light-from-church-leaders

Anual yields of antartic sea ice have been steadily growing since 1979.

Yes, i did know it was warmer in the past. The tempuratures in this interglacial are 3 degrees lower than the last 4 interglacials. And that is directly caused by mans activities.

Ice doesnt grow when its getting hotter.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Zakuska

[MormonFreeThinker]

Yes, i did know it was warmer in the past. The tempuratures in this interglacial are 3 degrees lower than the last 4 interglacials. And that is directly caused by mans activities.

 

Yes, the Earth was warmer in the past because CO2 levels were higher, but now human activities are taking us to the past. 

 

 

Anual yields of antartic sea ice have been steadily growing since 1979.

 

 

What? Arctic sea ice has been shrinking, I don't know what kinds of websites you are reading, but they are obviously not telling you the whole story about the graphs. 

 

Name me one climate scientist that said that arctic sea ice has been growing. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[Zakuska]

Yes, the Earth was warmer in the past because CO2 levels were higher, but now human activities are taking us to the past.

What? Arctic sea ice has been shrinking, I don't know what kinds of websites you are reading, but they are obviously not telling you the whole story about the graphs.

Name me one climate scientist that said that arctic sea ice has been growing.

Gladly. (apparently you failed to read the second article)

University of Illinois Polar Research Group

mr. Ambler is the journalist for the team who announced the findings. Its on their website, Anounced this morning and the data is directly from the US Snow and ice data center. (NSIDC)

Here is their graph showing a steady increase in antartic ice yield since 1979.

http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2F00Sea_ice_anomaly_antarctica.JPG&md5=2e856c1df34dc4c1e3ebfa561169c0578108d687&parameters[0]=YTo0OntzOjU6IndpZHRoIjtzOjQ6IjgwMG0iO3M6NjoiaGVpZ2h0IjtzOjM6IjYw&parameters[1]=MCI7czo3OiJib2R5VGFnIjtzOjQyOiI8Ym9keSBiZ0NvbG9yPSIjZmZmZmZmIiBz&parameters[2]=dHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luOjA7Ij4iO3M6NDoid3JhcCI7czozNzoiPGEgaHJlZj0iamF2&parameters[3]=YXNjcmlwdDpjbG9zZSgpOyI%2BIHwgPC9hPiI7fQ%3D%3D

I dont know what kind of websites you visit, but i tend to get my data directly from the horses mouth. antartic sea ice has been growing since 1979.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Zakuska

[thesometimesaint]

Anual yields of antartic sea ice have been steadily growing since 1979.

Yes, i did know it was warmer in the past. The tempuratures in this interglacial are 3 degrees lower than the last 4 interglacials. And that is directly caused by mans activities.

Ice doesnt grow when its getting hotter.

 

No they have not.

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/schweiger/ice_volume/BPIOMASIceVolumeAnomalyCurrentV2.1.png

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=arctic+sea+ice+volume&client=firefox-a&hs=u9j&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=nsuxU9XnKI3IoAT6-IHwDg&ved=0CDgQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=579#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=o1ghU9Km1wCGrM%253A%3Bvc06aolhJZwqWM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.realclimate.org%252Fimages%252Fseaice10.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.realclimate.org%252Findex.php%252Farchives%252F2011%252F01%252F2010-updates-to-model-data-comparisons%252Fcomment-page-2%252F%3B2544%3B2012

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered.htm

[thesometimesaint]

Gladly. (apparently you failed to read the second article)

University of Illinois Polar Research Group

mr. Ambler is the journalist for the team who announced the findings. Its on their website, Anounced this morning and the data is directly from the US Snow and ice data center. (NSIDC)

Here is their graph showing a steady increase in antartic ice yield since 1979.

http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2F00Sea_ice_anomaly_antarctica.JPG&md5=2e856c1df34dc4c1e3ebfa561169c0578108d687&parameters[0]=YTo0OntzOjU6IndpZHRoIjtzOjQ6IjgwMG0iO3M6NjoiaGVpZ2h0IjtzOjM6IjYw&parameters[1]=MCI7czo3OiJib2R5VGFnIjtzOjQyOiI8Ym9keSBiZ0NvbG9yPSIjZmZmZmZmIiBz&parameters[2]=dHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luOjA7Ij4iO3M6NDoid3JhcCI7czozNzoiPGEgaHJlZj0iamF2&parameters[3]=YXNjcmlwdDpjbG9zZSgpOyI%2BIHwgPC9hPiI7fQ%3D%3D

I dont know what kind of websites you visit, but i tend to get my data directly from the horses mouth. antartic sea ice has been growing since 1979.

 

The Illinois Polar Research Group doesn't say what you are saying

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered.htm

Recent observed surface air temperature changes over the Arctic region are the largest in the world. Winter (DJF) rates of warming exceed 4 degrees C. over portions of the Arctic land areas (shown left). We provide Arctic temperature trends and changes of other primary surface variables (e.g., sea level pressure, precipitation, sea ice cover) archived in this climate summary, portions of which are published each year in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.

Sea ice extent averaged over the Northern Hemisphere has decreased correspondingly over the past 50 years (shown right). The largest change has been observed in the summer months with decreases exceeding 30%. Decreases observed in winter are more modest. We maintain this updated archive of sea ice concentrations and extents at the University of Illinois Department of Atmospheric Sciences.

[Zakuska]

No they have not.

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/schweiger/ice_volume/BPIOMASIceVolumeAnomalyCurrentV2.1.png

https://www.google.com/search?q=arctic+sea+ice+volume&client=firefox-a&hs=u9j&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=nsuxU9XnKI3IoAT6-IHwDg&ved=0CDgQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=579#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=o1ghU9Km1wCGrM%3A%3Bvc06aolhJZwqWM%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclimate.org%2Fimages%2Fseaice10.jpg%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclimate.org%2Findex.php%2Farchives%2F2011%2F01%2F2010-updates-to-model-data-comparisons%2Fcomment-page-2%2F%3B2544%3B2012

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered.htm]http://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-Arctic-sea-ice-

Tss,

im leaving the coversation now because you keep being a know it all and wont let anyone else get a word in edgewise.

(This will also be reported)

I posted a link to the University of Illinois Polar Reasearch Group, who has the goverment grant and is studying the antartic polar ice and released the finding this morning of record antartic ice. If you wont listen to the horses mouth theres nothing i can do for you.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Zakuska

[thesometimesaint]

Tss,

im leaving the coversation now because you keep being a know it all and wont let anyone else get a word in edgewise.

(This will also be reported)

I posted a link to the University of Illinois Polar Reasearch Group, who has the goverment grant and is studying the antartic polar ice and released the finding this morning of record antartic ice. If you wont listen to the horses mouth theres nothing i can do for you.

 

Report all you want. I'm a big boy and can take as good as I get. The University of Illinois Polar Research Group doesn't say what you are claiming it says.

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/why-is-antarctic-sea-ice-growing.html

Edited June 30, 2014 by thesometimesaint

[Zakuska]

Report all you want. I'm a big boy and can take as good as I get. The University of Illinois Polar Research Group doesn't say what you are claiming it says.

What did i claim it said? "The Antartic sea ice has been growing since 1979" which is exactly what it said. I said nothing about northern ice.

You kept screaming "no it isnt. Nah nah nah. I cant hear you... "you're stupid", "you get your info from a crackerjack box."

If you cant dialog civily...

For those who would like that report again:http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/antarctic-sea-ice-hits-a-new-record-extent.html

Antartic sea ice has been growing at 2.6% a decade since 1979, and hit a record growth over the weekend. At least thats what the actual reasearchers say. Temperatures there are 3 degrees lower than the last 4 inerglacials.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Zakuska

[MormonFreeThinker]

I said nothing about northern ice

 

I was talking about the North Pole, not the South Pole. 

Southern sea ice is not particularly important to the climate, See 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/increasing-Antarctic-Southern-sea-ice.htm

 

How does Arctic sea ice loss compare to Antarctic sea ice gain? See 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/arctic-antarctic-sea-ice.htm

Edited June 30, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[thesometimesaint]

What did i claim it said? "The Antartic sea ice has been growing since 1979" which is exactly what it said. I said nothing about northern ice.

You kept screaming "no it isnt. Nah nah nah. I cant hear you... "you're stupid", "you get your info from a crackerjack."

If you cant dialog civily...

 

I've never called you stupid. From everything I can tell you are a high intelligent person. I simply disagree with you. Antarctic ice has not been growing since 1979 because of Global Warming. The Antarctic is actually warmer by a few degrees since 1979. There is actually a complex interplay of factors one of which is the shrinking of the Antarctic cold water currents around that pole.

[Zakuska]

According to the people who actually study this stuff and collect the data...

"This is statistically significant as the latest data published by the US National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) shows that sea ice extent in June is more than two standard deviations above the long term average for the period from 1981 to 2010, and has been since April(see bottom right)."

Antartic sea ice is two standard deviations above long term averages.

And as far as Antartica not being very significant in world weather, The shows ive been watching on nat geo and other science channels call it the "worlds weather engine" the single most important part of world weather and eco systems.

http://www.ccrc.unsw.edu.au/articles/the_big_engine_1.html

Each water mass has different characteristics, and these differences drive circulation around the continent. As part of the global heat engine, the Antarctic has a major role in the world's transfer of energy. Its ocean/atmosphere system is known to be both an indicator and a component of climate change. Oceanographers are attempting to improve our understanding of this oceanic environment, including global exchange of heat, salt, water, and trace elements, sea-ice dynamics, and marine biosphere research.

http://www.antarcticconnection.com/shopcontent.asp?type=science-oceanography Edited June 30, 2014 by Zakuska

[MormonFreeThinker]

And as far as Antartica not being very significant in world weather, The shows ive been watching on nat geo and other science channels call it the "worlds weather engine" the single most important part of world weather and eco systems.

http://www.ccrc.unsw.edu.au/articles/the_big_engine_1.html

 

Weather, not climate, do you know the difference? 

Please quote National Geographic, CFR. Where did National Geographic say that Southern sea ice is particularly important to the climate?

 

So if the world is getting colder, why is the North Pole Artic Sea ice shrinking? 

Edited June 30, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[Zakuska]

Scientists dont know. Thats what they are trying to figure out. Thats why its called an anomily[sic] because it doesnt fit the model of global warming. But it is happening.

Apparently it wasnt nat geo. It was Nova inconjuction with Nasa. I watched this a couple of weeks back and it will be running till July 31. Its called "earth from space" they bring all the satalite data and weather station / eco sytem data together and show how it all interacts and how important antartica is to the worlds weather/climate and ecosystems. If there was no antartica. There would be no ocean currents. No ocean currents and pretty much every eco system on earth as we know it vanishes.

You can watch It online here.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2334144059/

Yes i understand the difference in climate and weather. Weather = short term day to day, month to month, year to year. climate = long term trends in weather. Kind of like the 3 degree drop in temperatures in antartica during this interglacial.

ps. No you didnt call me stupid so ill take that back.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Zakuska

[Tiki]

NOAA Reinstates July 1936 As The Hottest Month on Record

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/30/noaa-quietly-reinstates-july-1936-as-the-hottest-month-on-record/?utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fdrudgereport.com%2F

Read it and weep. Global Warming is a fabrication.

[The Nehor]

It is amazing to me that people will gladly point out one piece of data about something as complex as the environment and then smugly draw complete conclusions from that one bit of data.

Do you people do the same thing with other complex things like the economy? "Welp, Apple stock went up. The recession is over."

[strappinglad]

I wish the words ' Arctic and Antarctic ' were spelled like most folks pronounce them. BUT ,they are not.