MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Dr. Richard Keen“Earth has cooled since 1998 in defiance of the predictions by the UN-IPCC.”“The global temperature for 2007 was the coldest in a decade.”Dr. Oliver W. FrauenfieldNir Joseph Shaviv I could only confirm Dr. Fraunfield's credentials here http://geography.tamu.edu/profile/ofrauenfeld Dr. Fraunfield does believe the Earth is getting warmer, not colder. Look at his paperhttp://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/6/4/044024/fulltext/ As for Dr. Keen, can you confirm his credentials? Where is a university profile? and more importantly, can you link to an academic paper where he explains why the Earth is getting colder?Bytheway, you said that the Earth has been getting colder since 1979, but the quote says 1998. and Nir Joseph Shaviv has a PhD in what? Environmental Science or Astrophysics? He is an astrophysicist. Edited July 2, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker
Zakuska Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 So can you name one climate scientist that believes the Earth is cooling? Or that doesn't believe the Earth is Warming? allready did dr. Keen '2007 coldest global temperature year on record'MormonFreeThinker: Here is the simplest way to tell the difference weather and climate. The clothes on your back are determine by the weather. While the clothes in your closet are determined by the climate. Or you could ...yep...Proof positive of global warming!What people wear generally doesn't make that much of a difference in weather or climate.For example... polygamist women in Arizona and NewMexico still to this day wear full length body armor and petty coats.Women in Arabia still wear burkas. Some people like myself still wear shorts in the debt of winter.
thesometimesaint Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Science is test-able, it's re-create-able. The models do not correspond to the actual temperature readings, and they cannot re-create past events. Therefore, the models are folly at best, and criminal at worst. You don't change the economy of the entire planet based on the made up numbers of people who will not release the raw data. If there was a serious problem, they would be releasing the data, and they would be working to create certified models that will re-create past events. What you are saying is akin to "Just because we can't re-create Cold Fusion doesn't mean we shouldn't be spending billions of dollars to create reactors that we can't prove will work...." If, you buy into the nonsense that is Global Warming; then new climate measures the EPA just implemented will prevent warming of a 0.05 of a degree (over a century), and that's providing China doesn't ramp up more power plants. Also Europe is abandoning many of it's climate ventures because they are killing the economies and have raised energy prices to the point where people cannot afford it. CO2 traps heat. http://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-co2-enhanced-greenhouse-effect.htm No scientist seeks to recreate the past. We can't physically go into the past and see what happened as it happened. We seek to explain the conditions of a previous state. The best most accurate explanation becomes the theory. IE; No one is seriously trying to recreate a white dwarf star anywhere near our planet. The theory of stellar formation accurately predicted that they exist. The measured temperature readings are not modeled. The measured temperature readings are from thermometers starting in the 1800's. More thermometers in more places means better actual measured temperatures. It has even been confirmed by Dr. Richard MullerSEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Muller The evidence is right before your face. IE; Cold Fusion has been falsified. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion%C2'> Just so you know a blog by a known liar isn't exactly a good way to present evidence.
thesometimesaint Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) allready did dr. Keen '2007 coldest global temperature year on record'yep...Proof positive of global warming!What people wear generally doesn't make that much of a difference in weather or climate.For example... polygamist women in Arizona and NewMexico still to this day wear full length body armor and petty coats.Women in Arabia still wear burkas. Some people like myself still wear shorts in the debt of winter. You tell me do the Inuit generally run around in only a thong, and do the soccer players in the World Cup Series in Brazil dress like the Inuit?https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+inuit+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb Edited July 2, 2014 by thesometimesaint
MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) allready did dr. Keen '2007 coldest global temperature year on record' Dr. Richard Keen“Earth has cooled since 1998 in defiance of the predictions by the UN-IPCC.”“The global temperature for 2007 was the coldest in a decade.”Dr. Oliver W. FrauenfieldNir Joseph Shaviv I could only confirm Dr. Fraunfield's credentials here http://geography.tam...ile/ofrauenfeld Dr. Fraunfield does believe the Earth is getting warmer, not colder. Look at his paperhttp://iopscience.io...44024/fulltext/ As for Dr. Keen, can you confirm his credentials? Where is a university profile? and more importantly, can you link to an academic paper where he explains why the Earth is getting colder?Bytheway, you said that the Earth has been getting colder since 1979, but the quote says 1998. and Nir Joseph Shaviv has a PhD in what? Environmental Science or Astrophysics? He is an astrophysicist. Edited July 2, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker
Zakuska Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) I could only confirm Dr. Fraunfield's credentials here http://geography.tamu.edu/profile/ofrauenfeldDr. Fraunfield does believe the Earth is getting warmer, not colder. Look at his paperhttp://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/6/4/044024/fulltext/Read his latest 2014 paper... in which his latest findings on perma-frost thaugh has left him doubting whether man is causing the uptack in current weather ondulation. Over the long term the poles are trending colder as shown by the Greenland and Antartic ice core temps. That doesn't mean there will never be patches of warmer weather in between as the climate there cools down. Many are doubting wether the current rising trend is caused by man and wether it will even come close to buking the general trend.As for Dr. Keen, can you confirm his credentials?and more importantly, can you link to an academic paper where he explains why the Earth is getting colder?and Nir Joseph Shaviv has a PhD in what? Environmental Science or Astrophysics? got their names from the global warming skeptics blog which does link to several scientific peer reviewed papers they have written. ill see what I can do. Edited July 2, 2014 by Zakuska
MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Read his latest 2014 paper... in which his latest findings on perma-frost thaugh has left him doubting whether man is causing the uptack in current weather ondulation. That was not my question. Dr. Fraunfield does believe the Earth is getting warmer. Over the long term the poles are trending colder as shown by the Greenland and Antartic ice core temps. Not my question again, I did not ask you about the poles, I asked you to name a climate scientist that believes the entire Earth is getting colder, or not warming. got their names from the global warming skeptics blog which does link to several scientific peer reviewed papers they have written. ill see what I can do. 1. No Paper2. No Richard Keen profile 3, and simply no evidence presented for his alleged position, with his alleged credentials. You need to confirm Keen's credentials first, and where is a paper written by Dr. Keen? Blogs are no good my friend. Edited July 2, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker
thesometimesaint Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Greenland is not getting colder.http://www.skepticalscience.com/greenland-used-to-be-green.htm In fact the ice of Greenland is melting.http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/aug/27/greenland-melting-ice-sheets-icepod-video
Zakuska Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Greenland is not getting colder.http://www.skepticalscience.com/greenland-used-to-be-green.htm In fact the ice of Greenland is melting.http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/aug/27/greenland-melting-ice-sheets-icepod-videoO my Freaking Gosh! Do you even know what the word "trending" means? For over 3000 years Greenlands temperature has been trending downward. You can't commit the fallacy of cherrypicking a 200 year period from today to 200 years ago and claim otherwise. That's like saying "oh the snow that fell in Salt Lake Last January has all melted. Yep.. Global Warming is to blame." Antartic temperatures have been trending downward as well since 8000 years ago. Antartic sea Ice hit a record on Saturday. Now that's the fifth time I've had to repeat myself. BTW, your first link proves my point. "Scientists have estimated that the Greenland ice sheet is between 400,000 and 800,000 years old. This means that the island today is unlikely to have been markedly different when Europeans settled there. However, there is evidence that the settled areas were warmer than today, with large birch woodlands providing both timber and fuel. This warmth coincided with the period known as the Medieval Climatic Anomaly, also known as the Medieval Warm Period, which we will discuss below." Greenland has cooled down. Should have read your source a little more carefully! Both poles Have been cooling off for a very long time. Edited July 2, 2014 by Zakuska 2
ELF1024 Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Just so you know a blog by a known liar isn't exactly a good way to present evidence. And your credentials are? Or do you enjoy throwing around pajoratives?
thesometimesaint Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) O my Freaking Gosh! Do you even know what the word "trending" means? For over 3000 years Greenlands temperature has been trending downward. You can't commit the fallacy of cherrypicking a 200 year period from today to 200 years ago and claim otherwise. That's like saying "oh the snow that fell in Salt Lake Last January has all melted. Yep.. Global Warming is to blame." Antartic temperatures have been trending downward as well since 8000 years ago. Antartic sea Ice hit a record on Saturday. Now that's the fifth time I've had to repeat myself. BTW, your first link proves my point. "Scientists have estimated that the Greenland ice sheet is between 400,000 and 800,000 years old. This means that the island today is unlikely to have been markedly different when Europeans settled there. However, there is evidence that the settled areas were warmer than today, with large birch woodlands providing both timber and fuel. This warmth coincided with the period known as the Medieval Climatic Anomaly, also known as the Medieval Warm Period, which we will discuss below." Greenland has cooled down. Should have read your source a little more carefully! Both poles Have been cooling off for a very long time. The Greenland Medieval Warming Period was a short time. limited extent event and not indicative of all of Greenland let alone the whole planet.SEE And your credentials are? Or do you enjoy throwing around pajoratives? I've never claimed to be anything other than a retired Psychiatric Social Worker. That is my credentials Actually I don't enjoy it. But if you going to throw around word like "liar". I am going to respond with links to established scientists and scientific organizations, and the occasional blog that quotes directly from those established scientists and scientific organizations.. Edited July 2, 2014 by thesometimesaint
MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) That's like saying "oh the snow that fell in Salt Lake Last January has all melted. Yep.. Global Warming is to blame." and your salt lake example is a straw man fallacy. Satellite images prove that Arctic Sea Ice has shrink in a very short period of time. It is no joke. http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/details.cgi?aid=3991 For over 3000 years Greenlands temperature has been trending downward. Greenland on the whole is losing ice, as confirmed by multiple satellite and on the ground field measurements.When ice melts, it gets colder around. Global Warming predicts an increase of cold winters, and colder. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21521-melting-sea-ice-could-trigger-colder-winters.html Edited July 2, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker
MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 Read his latest 2014 paper... in which his latest findings on perma-frost thaugh has left him doubting whether man is causing the uptack in current weather ondulation. That was not my question. Dr. Fraunfield does believe the Earth is getting warmer. Over the long term the poles are trending colder as shown by the Greenland and Antartic ice core temps. Not my question again, I did not ask you about the poles, I asked you to name a climate scientist that believes the entire Earth is getting colder, or not warming. got their names from the global warming skeptics blog which does link to several scientific peer reviewed papers they have written. ill see what I can do. 1. No Paper2. No Richard Keen profile 3, and simply no evidence presented for his alleged position, with his alleged credentials. You need to confirm Keen's credentials first, and where is a paper written by Dr. Keen? Blogs are no good my friend. Cite a Paper written by a climate scientist that presents evidence for Global Cooling.
Zakuska Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) The Greenland Medieval Warming Period was a short time. limited extent event and not indicative of all of Greenland let alone the whole planet.SEE I never claimed it was representative of the whole planet. Your video covers a time frame of 1000 years to iron out the bump in Europe. That's even shown on the GISP graph i linked. But we arent talking about temperatures in europe. We are talking about temperatures in greenland. No ones arguing that the last 200 years havent been getting warmer. there's been 3 such heating periods in this last 3000 year downtrend all ready. None of them triggered by man and the trend keeps getting lower and lower. I've never claimed to be anything other than a retired Psychiatric Social Worker. That is my credentials Actually I don't enjoy it. But if you going to throw around word like "liar". I am going to respond with links to established scientists and scientific organizations, and the occasional blog that quotes directly from those established scientists and scientific organizations..And yet you dispute links directly to accredited scientists and agencies who disagree with your personal agenda. Go figure. Edited July 2, 2014 by Zakuska
ELF1024 Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Actually I don't enjoy it. But if you going to throw around word like "liar". I am going to respond with links to established scientists and scientific organizations, and the occasional blog that quotes directly from those established scientists and scientific organizations.. I did call Global Warming a lie, and I do believe that it is a lie, to get government funding and to raise money via Carbon Credits. (Chicago Climate Exchange, now defunct) However, I did not call any one person a liar. However, I am quite sure that the difference is lost on you.. 1
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 However, I am quite sure that the difference is lost on you..Ha.
MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 to get government funding and to raise money via Carbon Credits That is Ad hominem and politics. There is no room for politics here. The church is building solar power meeting houses to help the environment, because science tells us that CO2 is heating our planet. List of Worldwide Scientific Organizations That Hold the Position That Climate Change Has Been Caused by Human Actionhttp://opr.ca.gov/s_listoforganizations.php
MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) No ones arguing that the last 200 years havent been getting warmer. there's been 3 such heating periods in this last 3000 year downtrend all ready. None of them triggered by man. You were saying that the Planet is cooling. If you believe the Planet is getting warmer, what is your point about the South Pole? What do your arguments prove about the planet? Edited July 2, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker
ELF1024 Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 That is Ad hominem and politics. There is no room for politics here. The church is building solar power meeting houses to help the environment, because science tells us that CO2 is heating our planet. List of Worldwide Scientific Organizations That Hold the Position That Climate Change Has Been Caused by Human Actionhttp://opr.ca.gov/s_listoforganizations.php You can be a good enviormental steward and not believe in Climate Change... and the Church was not on your list... 1
ELF1024 Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 You were saying that the Planet is cooling. If you believe the Planet is getting warmer, what is your point about the South Pole? What do your arguments prove about the planet? I don't know about the entire planet, but the Antarctic is ... And Solar Activity makes far more sense than blaming trace gasses. 2
Zakuska Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 and your salt lake example is a straw man fallacy. Satellite images prove that Arctic Sea Ice has shrink in a very short period of time. It is no joke. http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/details.cgi?aid=3991 Greenland on the whole is losing ice, as confirmed by multiple satellite and on the ground field measurements.When ice melts, it gets colder around. Global Warming predicts an increase of cold winters, and colder. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21521-melting-sea-ice-could-trigger-colder-winters.html How do you think the scientists at the university of illinois are coming up with their record setting increasing antartic ice measurements but by satalite data? Have you even read the article I linked earlier?
MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 You can be a good enviormental steward and not believe in Climate Change... and the Church was not on your list... 2 Church Magazine articles, 2 Apostles, and the church links to a Book that clearly talks about Global Warming. There is nothing against Global Warming in official church publications Look at the bottom of that webpage http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/environmental-stewardship-conservation How do solar panel meeting houses help the environment?
ELF1024 Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) 2 Church Magazine articles, 2 Apostles, and the church links to a Book that clearly talks about Global Warming. There is nothing against Global Warming in official church publications Look at the bottom of that webpage http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/environmental-stewardship-conservation How do solar panel meeting houses help the environment? The Church also teaches us to be self-sufficient. And how many of these green buildings are there... I see news for two... Wow, what a huge commitment... Joseph Smith also talked about people living on the moon at one point. GA's talking about the flawed Climate Theory means nothing more today, than Joseph talking about Moon People did then. Edited July 2, 2014 by ELF1024
Zakuska Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) You were saying that the Planet is cooling. If you believe the Planet is getting warmer, what is your point about the South Pole? What do your arguments prove about the planet? No. I said that the poles are "trending" colder. I even gave an explanation as to why. Heat the equator and thermal dynamics in the earths heat exchange mehanism will draw them colder. Everybody knows that for the past 200 years the climate has been rising on a new wave, even my graph shows that. And it also shows this happening 3 times before in greenlands history. over the past 3000 years. IM sad to see TSSs disdain for the GISP icecore project who drilled cores in several places in greenland to come up with the data we do have. NSF / NOAA also were involved in that project to come up with these temperature graphs. Here's a website that documents how the GISP icecore temperature chart I linked was compile:http://www.science.gov/topicpages/i/ice+core+greenland.html With new data being poured into the project daily from all over greenland being synced to the dataset. I think its pretty safe to say that those temperatures ARE pretty typical All over greenland. Edited July 2, 2014 by Zakuska
MormonFreeThinker Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 How do you think the scientists at the university of illinois are coming up with their record setting increasing antartic ice measurements but by satalite data? Have you even read the article I linked earlier? I am talking about the North Pole. You just said the Earth is getting Warmer, so I don't know what your point is.
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