Joseph Smith...martyr Or Not?

[Abulafia]

LETTER I.SHULLSBURG, Wis., Jan. 7, 1887.Dr. W. Wyl:--Dear Sir: I received yours of the 24th ult. also your book. Please accept thanks. I have not been well for three or four weeks, hence delay answering. You say it is very important to you to know, "if I am the Law who played such an important part in the Nauvoo events of 1843 and 1844." I am unfortunately the one. I cannot see how you are at all interested in my identity, for I assure you I have retired for ever from the Mormon controversy. When I left Nauvoo I left Mormonism behind, believing that I had done my part faithfully, even at the risk of my life, and believing. also, that the Expositor would continue to do the work it was intended to do. The Smiths thought they had killed it; whereas, by destroying the press, they gave it a new lease of life and extra power to overthrow them and drive their followers from the State. I have looked over your book, and am astonished at the amount of matter you have gathered together; it seems to me that you know at least ten times as much about Mormonism as I do, or ever did. I never resided with the Mormons as a people, only during my short stay in Nauvoo. I think that to have a thorough knowledge of any people it is necessary to live amongst them a considerable length of time. Before reading your book I had but very little knowledge of the family history of the Smiths or Rigdon; had never inquired into the particulars. After I left Nauvoo I did not care or trouble myself about them. I had no personal knowledge of the swindling and other wicked doing at Kirtland, nor did I know anything about the Missouri trouble; was told that their troubles in Ohio and Missouri all grew out of "religious persecution." I went from my home in Canada to Navuoo and found a very poor, but industrious people; they appeared to be moral and religiously disposed; the Smiths and others preached morality and brotherly kindness every Sunday. I saw nothing wrong until after the city charter was obtained. A change was soon apparent; the laws of the country were set at defiance and although outwardly everything was smooth, the under current was most vile and obnoxious. Time revealed to me and to many others much that we had not even suspected. We were kept in the dark as long as possible and held up before the public as examples of the Mormon people. Well, you know what followed. I believe you have endeavored to give a true account or history of the Mormons and Mormonism and I think you have succeeded wonderfully well. Your informants, however, may, now and then, have drawn a little on their imagination, may have reached false conclusions in some instances judged from circumstances and not from facts; doing injustice, perhaps, to the innocent. Where testimony conflicts it is sometimes very difficult to form conclusions. Mormon history is rather a mixed up affair. I would call your attention to one or two little mistakes concerning myself. You say I was a general in the Nauvoo legion. I never was, never held a commission of any kind in it. I sometimes (by request) assisted in drilling the men. having a little knowledge of military tactics. My Brother Wilson held a general's commission from Governor Carlin. My brother was not a Mormon. On page 108 you speak of "swapping wives," and state that you have it from one who knows. Now let me say to you that I never heard of it till I read it in your book. Your informant must have been deceived or willfully lied to you. Joseph Smith never proposed anything of the kind to me or to my wife; both he and Emma knew our sentiments in relation to spiritual wives and polygamy; knew that we were immoveably [sic] opposed to polygamy in any and every form; that we were so subsequent events proved. The story may have grown out of the fact that Joseph offered to furnish his wife, Emma, with a substitute for him, by way of compensation for his neglect of her, on condition that she would forever stop her opposition to polygamy and permit him to enjoy hisyoung wives in peace and keep some of them in her house and to be well treated, etc.The great mistake of my [life was my] having anything to do with Mormonism. I feel [it to] be a deep disgrace and never speak of it when I can avoid it; for over forty years I have been almost entirely silent on the subject and will so continue after his. Accept my kind regards.>Wm. Law.

A letter written by Law to Wyl many years after the event.

[Abulafia]

If you look on the transcripts of meetings of Joseph as mayor just before his arrest, you will see a leader seeking to blacken the name of those who opposed him. Including the Laws, the Higbees and Robert Foster.

Take some time to look at the way they lived their lives outside of Mormonism. It does not fit the portrayal that was given of them to me in my seminary years. Sadly.

After study, I have come to the conclusion that they were educated, professional men who sincerely disagreed with what Joseph was doing and sought to expose him to people who had given Joseph their trust, particularly in and around the practice of polygamy and in abuse of the Nauvoo Charter.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Abulafia

[Thinking]

Deleted. Posted in the wrong thread.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Thinking

[hagoth7]

Was Joseph killed in the Carthage Jail because of his faith in Jesus Christ or was

there another reason? Apart from the Mormons, were angry mobs going around

and killing other Christians at that time?....

 

Yes. How about Elijah Lovejoy, a preacher who was killed by a mob in Illinois, not far from Carthage and Nauvou, in 1837. 

[why me]

Well, he definitely fits the definition of a marytr, I guess. But I say it with hesitancy, if he shot and killed anyone, though he didn't know what was coming through that door and was shooting in self defense. ETA: Just read where GG said he didn't kill anyone, do you have a reference GG?

I think that we need to look at history. Were the people of the Warsaw Ghetto martyrs? Many jews seem to think so. Or the jews at Masada who lost their lives for defending their faith. Many consider them to be martyrs. And yet, these people have guns. We need to leave the catholic defintion of people walking peacefully to their deaths behind us.

 

I don't know if JS just stood there and allowed the black faced men to just kill him would make him a martyr or just plain suicidal.

[why me]

If you look on the transcripts of meetings of Joseph as mayor just before his arrest, you will see a leader seeking to blacken the name of those who opposed him. Including the Laws, the Higbees and Robert Foster.

Take some time to look at the way they lived their lives outside of Mormonism. It does not fit the portrayal that was given of them to me in my seminary years. Sadly.

After study, I have come to the conclusion that they were educated, professional men who sincerely disagreed with what Joseph was doing and sought to expose him to people who had given Joseph their trust, particularly in and around the practice of polygamy and in abuse of the Nauvoo Charter.

But we also need to look at context. First, joseph landed in jail a couple of times before this happening. Second, the early saints were certainly persecuted in the hinterlands of the USA. And certainly newspapers were calling for mormon blood around the outkirts of Nauvoo. And there is no question that by allowing polygamy to go public would have caused bloodshed in nauvoo. And one would have to guess that the law's knew exactly what they were doing to stir up the mobs. Of course, after the dextruction and the removal of the saints to Far West and then to Utah, they all led  a nice and respectful life. So, what was your point? A person can hate a certain group of people, talk hate and once they are removed from the community lead wonderful respectful lives. We see this in the south of the USA in yesteryear.

Edited April 21, 2015 by why me

[why me]

LETTER I.SHULLSBURG, Wis., Jan. 7, 1887.Dr. W. Wyl:--Dear Sir: I received yours of the 24th ult. also your book. Please accept thanks. I have not been well for three or four weeks, hence delay answering. You say it is very important to you to know, "if I am the Law who played such an important part in the Nauvoo events of 1843 and 1844." I am unfortunately the one. I cannot see how you are at all interested in my identity, for I assure you I have retired for ever from the Mormon controversy. When I left Nauvoo I left Mormonism behind, believing that I had done my part faithfully, even at the risk of my life, and believing. also, that the Expositor would continue to do the work it was intended to do. The Smiths thought they had killed it; whereas, by destroying the press, they gave it a new lease of life and extra power to overthrow them and drive their followers from the State. I have looked over your book, and am astonished at the amount of matter you have gathered together; it seems to me that you know at least ten times as much about Mormonism as I do, or ever did. I never resided with the Mormons as a people, only during my short stay in Nauvoo. I think that to have a thorough knowledge of any people it is necessary to live amongst them a considerable length of time. Before reading your book I had but very little knowledge of the family history of the Smiths or Rigdon; had never inquired into the particulars. After I left Nauvoo I did not care or trouble myself about them. I had no personal knowledge of the swindling and other wicked doing at Kirtland, nor did I know anything about the Missouri trouble; was told that their troubles in Ohio and Missouri all grew out of "religious persecution." I went from my home in Canada to Navuoo and found a very poor, but industrious people; they appeared to be moral and religiously disposed; the Smiths and others preached morality and brotherly kindness every Sunday. I saw nothing wrong until after the city charter was obtained. A change was soon apparent; the laws of the country were set at defiance and although outwardly everything was smooth, the under current was most vile and obnoxious. Time revealed to me and to many others much that we had not even suspected. We were kept in the dark as long as possible and held up before the public as examples of the Mormon people. Well, you know what followed. I believe you have endeavored to give a true account or history of the Mormons and Mormonism and I think you have succeeded wonderfully well. Your informants, however, may, now and then, have drawn a little on their imagination, may have reached false conclusions in some instances judged from circumstances and not from facts; doing injustice, perhaps, to the innocent. Where testimony conflicts it is sometimes very difficult to form conclusions. Mormon history is rather a mixed up affair. I would call your attention to one or two little mistakes concerning myself. You say I was a general in the Nauvoo legion. I never was, never held a commission of any kind in it. I sometimes (by request) assisted in drilling the men. having a little knowledge of military tactics. My Brother Wilson held a general's commission from Governor Carlin. My brother was not a Mormon. On page 108 you speak of "swapping wives," and state that you have it from one who knows. Now let me say to you that I never heard of it till I read it in your book. Your informant must have been deceived or willfully lied to you. Joseph Smith never proposed anything of the kind to me or to my wife; both he and Emma knew our sentiments in relation to spiritual wives and polygamy; knew that we were immoveably [sic] opposed to polygamy in any and every form; that we were so subsequent events proved. The story may have grown out of the fact that Joseph offered to furnish his wife, Emma, with a substitute for him, by way of compensation for his neglect of her, on condition that she would forever stop her opposition to polygamy and permit him to enjoy hisyoung wives in peace and keep some of them in her house and to be well treated, etc.The great mistake of my [life was my] having anything to do with Mormonism. I feel [it to] be a deep disgrace and never speak of it when I can avoid it; for over forty years I have been almost entirely silent on the subject and will so continue after his. Accept my kind regards.>Wm. Law.

A letter written by Law to Wyl many years after the event.

It was good to hear from William many years after the event. However I blackened the part that portrays him to be a nice guy. What should law write many years after the events that followed? Of course, he was a gentleman. Of course he was a respected citizen. But lets face it, he had it in for the mormons as the bolden words betray. But it was a nice letter written years later according to his understanding of taking no blame for the people who died along the trail when they fled nauvoo. The children and babies who perished along the way. And the pain that it caused emma and JSs mom when they lost a husband and loved brother-in- law and two sons. But it was a lovely letter.

 

And I am sure that the original author of the book wrote some wonderful things about the mormons to spead the love. But lets now from Joseph Smith:

 

 

“Marvel not, then, if you are persecuted; but remember the words of the Savior: ‘The servant is not above his Lord; if they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also’ [see John 15:20]; and that all the afflictions through which the Saints have to pass, are the fulfillment of the words of the Prophets which have spoken since the world began.”⁵

 

“When I do the best I can—when I am accomplishing the greatest good, then the most evils and wicked surmisings are got up against me. … The enemies of this people will never get weary of their persecution against the Church, until they are overcome. I expect they will array everything against me that is in their power to control, and that we shall have a long and tremendous warfare. He that will war the true Christian warfare against the corruptions of these last days will have wicked men and angels of devils, and all the infernal powers of darkness continually arrayed against him. When wicked and corrupt men oppose, it is a criterion to judge if a man is warring the Christian warfare. When all men speak evil of you falsely, blessed are ye, etc. [see Matthew 5:11]. Shall a man be considered bad, when men speak evil of him? No. If a man stands and opposes the world of sin, he may expect to have all wicked and corrupt spirits arrayed against him.

 

“But it will be but a little season, and all these afflictions will be turned away from us, inasmuch as we are faithful, and are not overcome by these evils. By seeing the blessings of the endowment rolling on, and the kingdom increasing and spreading from sea to sea, we shall rejoice that we were not overcome by these foolish things.”⁶

 

“It is thought by some that our enemies would be satisfied with my destruction; but I tell you that as soon as they have shed my blood they will thirst for the blood of every man in whose heart dwells a single spark of the spirit of the fullness of the Gospel. The opposition of these men is moved by the spirit of the adversary of all righteousness. It is not only to destroy me, but every man and woman who dares believe the doctrines that God hath inspired me to teach to this generation.”⁷

 

“I have learned by experience that the enemy of truth does not slumber, nor cease his exertions to bias the minds of communities against the servants of the Lord, by stirring up the indignation of men upon all matters of importance or interest.”⁸

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-32?lang=eng

 

I don't think that William would have liked to read this many years later if he had the chance to do so. By the way, say hello to our friend from me when you have the chance.

Edited April 21, 2015 by why me

[readstoomuch]

Wylhelm Wyl and his book were considered the worst yellow journalism of the day. Filled with innuendo and half truths. Why go to books like this? Joseph smiths life is an open book with the JSP project. Only the most anti-Mormon thugs pull out Willhelm Wyl, the pseudonym the Salt Lake Tribune published their trash under.