New Book Of Mormon Documentary Trailer

[teddyaware]

Sure to excite and inspire some, sure to distress and raise the hackles of others: For your consideration, I post the following link to the official movie trailer of "For Our Day: Covenant on the Land," a new documentary on the connection of ancient Israel, the Book of Mormon, and the founding of the United States of America as a covenant land of the Lord.

 

http://youtu.be/S4Gkq57IcDk

Edited November 7, 2013 by teddyaware

[omni]

What's the over-under on this thread lasting through the night?

[teddyaware]

What's the over-under on this thread lasting through the night?

 

Why not refrain from comments -- especially vitriolic ones -- and just look at the trailer and take from it what one will and then just move on.

[prismsplay]

Makes me want to see the entire film. I hope it includes the December 1833 revelation that says:

 

And, again I say unto you, those who have been scattered by their enemies, it is my will that they should continue to importune for redress, and redemption, by the hands of those who are placed as rulers, and are in authority over you, according to the laws and constitution of the people which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles, that every man may act in doctrine, and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto them that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. Therefore it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I'm just so grateful that this production seems so restrained and tastefully-done, so even-handed and fair-minded and not at all salacious or melodramatic. It's material like this that gives us Mormons such a good name. 

[Robert F. Smith]

What is so sad is that the makers of this short video (the Joseph Smith Foundation) clearly began their project with an apriori and false notion about what American history is generally, and about what the U.S. Constitution is specifically.  They then set out to selectively verify those self-contradictory notions, missing the whole point of the American story, which is far more interesting and inspiring.  And true.

 

What I would like to see is actual study of our Constitution in our elementary and secondary schools (beginning in the 6th grade).  I didn't study it intensively until college, first in an introductory course on government, and then in a course devoted solely to Constitutional Law.  Later, in my career, I was concerned with the application of specific rules derived from the Bill of Rights.

 

I was both surprised at the true nature of that Constitution, and proud of it -- and proud of our Founding Fathers.  We have good reason to think them inspired by God.  But not for the silly partisan reasons enunciated in the video, but because it is a bulwark of protection of our freedoms.  I wish they had made a video which demonstrated how that works in real life and how it was so brilliantly engineered.

[omni]

Why not refrain from comments -- especially vitriolic ones -- and just look at the trailer and take from it what one will and then just move on.

Vitriolic, huh?  No need to be defensive, this thread is clearly political which is a big no-no.  Just look what happened to the two threads about the Utah politician who went from LDS to EV.

[teddyaware]

Vitriolic, huh?  No need to be defensive, this thread is clearly political which is a big no-no.  Just look what happened to the two threads about the Utah politician who went from LDS to EV.

 

So one cannot bring up the divinely inspired governmental systems of the ancient Israelites and Nephites, as set forth in the Holy Scriptures, without being said to have "gone political?" Is the following scripture political or does it instead set forth the proper role of government under God? If it is political, then much of the scriptures are political as well.

 

"And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood."

 

Politics and discussions of the Lord's approved forms of government are two different things. Politics involves the often ignoble wranglings, power struggles and intrigues of political parties and candidates; while the proper role of government, as oft set forth in scripture, transcends crass political haggling and considerations and moves on into the more noble realm of how God's children are to be protected in the exercise of their God-given inalienable rights.

 

P.S. My reference to "vitriolic comments" had nothing to do with you.

Edited November 7, 2013 by teddyaware

[teddyaware]

What is so sad is that the makers of this short video (the Joseph Smith Foundation) clearly began their project with an apriori and false notion about what American history is generally, and about what the U.S. Constitution is specifically.  They then set out to selectively verify those self-contradictory notions, missing the whole point of the American story, which is far more interesting and inspiring.  And true.

 

What I would like to see is actual study of our Constitution in our elementary and secondary schools (beginning in the 6th grade).  I didn't study it intensively until college, first in an introductory course on government, and then in a course devoted solely to Constitutional Law.  Later, in my career, I was concerned with the application of specific rules derived from the Bill of Rights.

 

I was both surprised at the true nature of that Constitution, and proud of it -- and proud of our Founding Fathers.  We have good reason to think them inspired by God.  But not for the silly partisan reasons enunciated in the video, but because it is a bulwark of protection of our freedoms.  I wish they had made a video which demonstrated how that works in real life and how it was so brilliantly engineered.

 

How does the following scripture fit into your understanding of a divinely inspired Constitution? Do you see some sort of overlap?

 

8 And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2)

[Robert F. Smith]

How does the following scripture fit into your understanding of a divinely inspired Constitution? Do you see some sort of overlap?

 

8 And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2)

Depends upon what you take to be the "land of promise."  Since the Jaredites were the great mother culture of southern Mexico, one might suggest that as the actual "land of promise," and study Mexican history to figure out what that means for Ether 2.  The Book of Mormon actually has a great deal more to say along such lines, all of it applying to Mesoamerica generally, and Guatemala and Mexico specifically.

 

If you want to include U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution in that mix, it's fine with me.  All I ask is that you actually know something about U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution -- something quite rate these days -- and explain why you think they are relevant to Book of Mormon prophecy.

[teddyaware]

Depends upon what you take to be the "land of promise."  Since the Jaredites were the great mother culture of southern Mexico, one might suggest that as the actual "land of promise," and study Mexican history to figure out what that means for Ether 2.  The Book of Mormon actually has a great deal more to say along such lines, all of it applying to Mesoamerica generally, and Guatemala and Mexico specifically.

 

If you want to include U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution in that mix, it's fine with me.  All I ask is that you actually know something about U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution -- something quite rate these days -- and explain why you think they are relevant to Book of Mormon prophecy.

 

Since you believe Mexico and Mesoamerica to be the promised land spoken of in the Book of Mormon and not the landmass now comprising the present-day United States of America (as I do), we are on totally different planets on this matter; so there's no use in even getting started, as any attempts at dialogue are almost sure to be exercises in frustration. I go along with Apostle L. Tom Perry who recently declared: "The United States is the promised land foretold in the Book of Mormon." All the best to you till we 'meet' again.

[Tiki]

Depends upon what you take to be the "land of promise."  Since the Jaredites were the great mother culture of southern Mexico, one might suggest that as the actual "land of promise," and study Mexican history to figure out what that means for Ether 2.  The Book of Mormon actually has a great deal more to say along such lines, all of it applying to Mesoamerica generally, and Guatemala and Mexico specifically.

 

If you want to include U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution in that mix, it's fine with me.  All I ask is that you actually know something about U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution -- something quite rate these days -- and explain why you think they are relevant to Book of Mormon prophecy.

It's official. The Mesoamerica LGT wrought by Dr. John L. Sorenson and his followers, including the lost and scattered remnants of F.A.R.M.S., not only declare the Prophet Joseph Smith to have not understood anything which he said or implied about Book of Mormon geography, to paraphrase Dr. S., and now by extension, declare the scriptures concerning the U.S. Constitution and the Land of Promise, to be outright lies. (Ether 8:25)

[canard78]

Since you believe Mexico and Mesoamerica to be the promised land spoken of in the Book of Mormon and not the landmass now comprising the present-day United States of America (as I do), we are on totally different planets on this matter; so there's no use in even getting started, as any attempts at dialogue are almost sure to be exercises in frustration. I go along with Apostle L. Tom Perry who recently declared: "The United States is the promised land foretold in the Book of Mormon." All the best to you till we 'meet' again.

What was it Elder Uchtdorf said about people making mistakes? We all see through a glass darkly so even Elder Perry will say things that I don't agree with. Some Americans' obsession with being the world's big brother leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the rest of us.

(Welcome back, hope you enjoyed your sabbatical)

[Robert F. Smith]

Since you believe Mexico and Mesoamerica to be the promised land spoken of in the Book of Mormon and not the landmass now comprising the present-day United States of America (as I do), we are on totally different planets on this matter; so there's no use in even getting started, as any attempts at dialogue are almost sure to be exercises in frustration. I go along with Apostle L. Tom Perry who recently declared: "The United States is the promised land foretold in the Book of Mormon." All the best to you till we 'meet' again.

As I said, which you apparently didn't read:

 

Depends upon what you take to be the "land of promise."  Since the Jaredites were the great mother culture of southern Mexico, one might suggest that as the actual "land of promise," and study Mexican history to figure out what that means for Ether 2.  The Book of Mormon actually has a great deal more to say along such lines, all of it applying to Mesoamerica generally, and Guatemala and Mexico specifically.

 

If you want to include U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution in that mix, it's fine with me.  All I ask is that you actually know something about U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution -- something quite rate these days -- and explain why you think they are relevant to Book of Mormon prophecy.

 

I have no problem with those who wish to read a hemispheric "land of promise" into the Book of Mormon.  They are certainly entitled to their opinions.  What is inexcusable is for people to talk nonsense about the Constitution, as they did in  that video.

 

Aside from the fact that the phrase "land of promise" and "promised land" occurs many times in the Book of Mormon, upon their arrival, the Nephites even specifically name the new place "the Promised Land" (I Ne 18:18:23), possibly using the familiar phrase in Hebrew, hāʼāreṣ ʼăšer nišbˁa   which would include the land promised to Abraham as well as to the later Children of Israel -- a land very limited in scope.

[Robert F. Smith]

It's official. The Mesoamerica LGT wrought by Dr. John L. Sorenson and his followers, including the lost and scattered remnants of F.A.R.M.S., not only declare the Prophet Joseph Smith to have not understood anything which he said or implied about Book of Mormon geography, to paraphrase Dr. S., and now by extension, declare the scriptures concerning the U.S. Constitution and the Land of Promise, to be outright lies. (Ether 8:25)

Hold your anger, misinterpretation, and vitriol, Tiki, and read my post #14.

[teddyaware]

As I said, which you apparently didn't read:

 

Depends upon what you take to be the "land of promise."  Since the Jaredites were the great mother culture of southern Mexico, one might suggest that as the actual "land of promise," and study Mexican history to figure out what that means for Ether 2.  The Book of Mormon actually has a great deal more to say along such lines, all of it applying to Mesoamerica generally, and Guatemala and Mexico specifically.

 

If you want to include U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution in that mix, it's fine with me.  All I ask is that you actually know something about U.S. history and the U.S. Constitution -- something quite rate these days -- and explain why you think they are relevant to Book of Mormon prophecy.

 

I have no problem with those who wish to read a hemispheric "land of promise" into the Book of Mormon.  They are certainly entitled to their opinions.  What is inexcusable is for people to talk nonsense about the Constitution, as they did in  that video.

 

Aside from the fact that the phrase "land of promise" and "promised land" occurs many times in the Book of Mormon, upon their arrival, the Nephites even specifically name the new place "the Promised Land" (I Ne 18:18:23), possibly using the familiar phrase in Hebrew, hāʼāreṣ ʼăšer nišbˁa   which would include the land promised to Abraham as well as to the later Children of Israel -- a land very limited in scope.

 

I believe that the Lord has for a wise purpose intentionally kept the lands of the Nephites hidden from the world. Part of that divine wisdom is found in providing for a test of faith to see if men will trust in the voice of the Spirit or in the arm of flesh. The fact that you seem to be so sure the Nephites dwelt in Mexico or Mesoamerica is a leap of intellect I dare not take. I believe it's just as possible that the Book of Mormon events took place in the heartland of America as in Mesoamerica -- I'm keeping an open mind on the matter.

 

But of several things there is no doubt: It was in the lands of the United States that the Book of Mormon and its accompanying artifacts were hidden and discovered; it was in the United States that the prophesied righteous Gentiles, under the inspiration of God, arrived here from the lands of captivity and established the Declaration and the Constitution so that the Gospel might be restored; it was in the United States that the Gospel was restored; it is in the United States that we find the Lord's base of operations for the latter days; and it is in the heartland of the United States that the Zion of God and city of New Jerusalem will be built, as prophesied in the Book of Mormon.

 

To my mind, there is no doubt but that the United States is the promised land prophesied of in the Book of Mormon. In light of the list in my second paragraph, the reason why I believe the United States is the Book of Mormon's latter-day promised land is because it's the only land on earth that fits the description. Mexico and Mesoamerica don't at all fit the bill.     

Edited November 8, 2013 by teddyaware

[AndyDnom]

what is the thesis of the film? who is behind it, funding, creative, etc? anyone know?

[Stroopwafel]

It always baffles me when the American republic and its constitution are trumped as if they almost were hand-given by God Almighty himself. I don't deny there may be some inspiration in what the Founding Fathers were doing, but the tendency some have of emphasizing a supposed biblical influence on their work, while these were certainly pious and religious folks, is to turn a blind eye on the fact that these men were products of a classical education, and that this definitly transpires in what they did, and still does today. One would get a much better (and I might truer and less ideological) grasp of the United States of America and its constituents by looking at Ancient Rome rather than Ancient Israel.

[teddyaware]

It always baffles me when the American republic and its constitution are trumped as if they almost were hand-given by God Almighty himself. I don't deny there may be some inspiration in what the Founding Fathers were doing, but the tendency some have of emphasizing a supposed biblical influence on their work, while these were certainly pious and religious folks, is to turn a blind eye on the fact that these men were products of a classical education, and that this definitly transpires in what they did, and still does today. One would get a much better (and I might truer and less ideological) grasp of the United States of America and its constituents by looking at Ancient Rome rather than Ancient Israel.

 

None of this should baffle you if you are a Latter-day Saint. Our scriptures clearly testify that the Constitution of the United States is inspired by God Himself, and that He deliberately sent the spirits of the Founding Fathers to inhabit tabernacles of clay upon the earth in the specific time and place they were sent, and this in order to do a great work in preparation for the restoration of the Gospel of Christ. The LDS Church is the only religion, as far as I know, in which God Himself has revealed, by direct revelation, which system of earthy government He approves, and that system of government is the Constitutional Republic as established under the Constitution of the United States by the Founding Fathers. Whether they were classically trained or not, they had the gifts, wisdom and talents -- much, no doubt, gained in the pre-existence -- needed to accomplish their indispensably important work.

Edited November 9, 2013 by teddyaware

[followerofemmanuel]

Sure to excite and inspire some, sure to distress and raise the hackles of others: For your consideration, I post the following link to the official movie trailer of "For Our Day: Covenant on the Land," a new documentary on the connection of ancient Israel, the Book of Mormon, and the founding of the United States of America as a covenant land of the Lord.

 

http://youtu.be/S4Gkq57IcDk

 

I look forward to seeing this documentary.  Such a timely and challenging subject.

Edited November 9, 2013 by followerofemmanuel

[teddyaware]

I look forward to seeing this documentary.  Such a timely and challenging subject.

 

I agree. We truly live in scary times. But we can rejoice because He who knows the end from the beginning knows His side will win the day, for Christ already won the decisive battle of this great war when He cried our from the cross, "It Is Finished!"

Edited November 9, 2013 by teddyaware

[Jude2]

None of this should baffle you if you are a Latter-day Saint. Our scriptures clearly testify that the Constitution of the United States is inspired by God Himself, and that He deliberately sent the spirits of the Founding Fathers to inhabit tabernacles of clay upon the earth in the specific time and place they were sent, and this in order to do a great work in preparation for the restoration of the Gospel of Christ. The LDS Church is the only religion, as far as I know, in which God Himself has revealed, by direct revelation, which system of earthy government He approves, and that system of government is the Constitutional Republic as established under the Constitution of the United States by the Founding Fathers. Whether they were classically trained or not, they had the gifts, wisdom and talents -- much, no doubt, gained in the pre-existence -- needed to accomplish their indispensably important work.

 

Amen

[Robert F. Smith]

I believe that the Lord has for a wise purpose intentionally kept the lands of the Nephites hidden from the world. Part of that divine wisdom is found in providing for a test of faith to see if men will trust in the voice of the Spirit or in the arm of flesh. The fact that you seem to be so sure the Nephites dwelt in Mexico or Mesoamerica is a leap of intellect I dare not take. I believe it's just as possible that the Book of Mormon events took place in the heartland of America as in Mesoamerica -- I'm keeping an open mind on the matter.

Condemning the intellect is not an auspicious beginning for someone who claims to have an open mind. God probably gave us brains for a reason, and then set us out on our own. He has urged us to exercise faith and learning in coming to knowledge about all manner of things (D&C 88:118-119). Yet you reject His commandment. Why?

 

But of several things there is no doubt: It was in the lands of the United States that the Book of Mormon and its accompanying artifacts were hidden and discovered; it was in the United States that the prophesied righteous Gentiles, under the inspiration of God, arrived here from the lands of captivity and established the Declaration and the Constitution so that the Gospel might be restored; it was in the United States that the Gospel was restored; it is in the United States that we find the Lord's base of operations for the latter days; and it is in the heartland of the United States that the Zion of God and city of New Jerusalem will be built, as prophesied in the Book of Mormon.

 

To my mind, there is no doubt but that the United States is the promised land prophesied of in the Book of Mormon. In light of the list in my second paragraph, the reason why I believe the United States is the Book of Mormon's latter-day promised land is because it's the only land on earth that fits the description. Mexico and Mesoamerica don't at all fit the bill.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it is wrong. What they are not entitled to is to run roughshod over the facts. I would suggest studying the matter in a serious way before jumping to conclusions.

[Robert F. Smith]

Stroopwafel, on 08 Nov 2013 - 4:42 PM, said:

It always baffles me when the American republic and its constitution are trumped as if they almost were hand-given by God Almighty himself. I don't deny there may be some inspiration in what the Founding Fathers were doing, but the tendency some have of emphasizing a supposed biblical influence on their work, while these were certainly pious and religious folks, is to turn a blind eye on the fact that these men were products of a classical education, and that this definitly transpires in what they did, and still does today. One would get a much better (and I might truer and less ideological) grasp of the United States of America and its constituents by looking at Ancient Rome rather than Ancient Israel.

None of this should baffle you if you are a Latter-day Saint. Our scriptures clearly testify that the Constitution of the United States is inspired by God Himself, and that He deliberately sent the spirits of the Founding Fathers to inhabit tabernacles of clay upon the earth in the specific time and place they were sent, and this in order to do a great work in preparation for the restoration of the Gospel of Christ. The LDS Church is the only religion, as far as I know, in which God Himself has revealed, by direct revelation, which system of earthy government He approves, and that system of government is the Constitutional Republic as established under the Constitution of the United States by the Founding Fathers. Whether they were classically trained or not, they had the gifts, wisdom and talents -- much, no doubt, gained in the pre-existence -- needed to accomplish their indispensably important work.

While the Founding Fathers were doubtless inspired by God in their tremendous work, which went beyond their own understanding of the ultimate consequences (in which, for example, slaves would one day be free under that very Constitution), that does not mean that our constitutional democracy is God's only approved form of government.  To suggest that is to ignore the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine & Covenants, and the various forms of government urged as well as tolerated by God, who deals with men on their terms and in their weakness.  You might make a start by examining the various forms of government under Moses, Samuel, David, Nephi, Benjamin, Alma, Jesus Christ, Jared, Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young, along with specific counsel given in D&C 134 and Article of Faith #12. Furthermore, Paul tells us in Romans 13:1 that "the powers that be are ordained of God," i.e., no ruler or rulers of any sort function without the suffrance of God.  According to Paul and our own LDS Scripture, we are duty-bound to obey the laws of the land in which we live -- the majority of Mormons do not live in the USA and do not speak English.  Ours is a worldwide Church.

 

One might want to remember also that the Founding Fathers of the United States of America were traitors to King and Country.  Many were slaveholders.  Some of the most prominent among them were Deists.  We need to understand them as they in fact were, not as we might want them to have been.

 

An excellent discussion of God's view of government is provided by Valerie Hudson in Dennis Largey, ed., Book of Mormon Reference Companion (Deseret Book, 2003), 302-305.  Professor Hudson holds the George H. W. Bush Chair in government at Texas A&M University, and is regarded as one of the most influential thinkers in the world.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Robert F. Smith

[Helen47]

It is interesting that among the videos produced by the Joseph Smith foundation is one attacking evolution. Also a huge number by Ezra Taft Benson. I wonder what Benson would have thought of the Martin Luther King holiday.