What Is The Purpose Of Food Storage?

[Stargazer]

 In the United States and most of the world's wealthy countries the government will provide assistance in case of a natural disaster. 

 

Oh, yes.  Please remind us again how many days it took FEMA to get a load of water bottles to the New Orleans Super Dome after Hurricane Katrina? 

 

It isn't that the government won't attempt to provide assistance in the case of natural disaster -- it will attempt to do so, But my favorite disaster scenario is the Cascadia Subduction Zone letting loose with a 9.0+.  This would be the rough equivalent of what Japan suffered in 2011, and they had in excess of 15,000 deaths -- interesting number for a country with far better earthquake and tsunami preparedness that we have in the Pacific Northwest.  The Cascadia Subduction Zone is currently locked up along 40 miles of its length.  If the entire length of the fault gives way next week it would dwarf the Japan 2011 earthquake.  Almost all of our electricity is generated by hydroelectric.  How many of our dams will burst and/or be taken offline for extended periods?  We have lots of rivers, and that means lots of bridges, and how many of them will be destroyed?  The west side of the Cascade Mountains is the most affected, and is the most populated.  There would be tens of millions of people without power, possibly for weeks or months, without food supplies because transportation nets would be taken offline for weeks.  Add in the fact that when the Cascadia Zone breaks it has almost always been the trigger to cause the San Andreas Fault in California to cut loose:

 

Studies of past earthquake traces on both the northern San Andreas Fault and the southern Cascadia subduction zone indicate a correlation in time which may be evidence that quakes on the Cascadia subduction zone may have triggered most of the major quakes on the northern San Andreas during at least the past 3,000 years or so. The evidence also shows the rupture direction going from north to south in each of these time-correlated events. -- Wikipedia.

 

So, how well do you think that the government is going to perform with virtually the entire west coast flat on its tush with completely busted infrastructure?  I think I it would be a VERY good idea to have a good food supply in your house.

 

My house is 120 years old, and will probably be uninhabitable afterwards, even if it doesn't fall into a loose pile of little sticks. 

[Kenngo1969]

Because of your posting history, and the tone and details of that specific post.

 

It was a ham-handed mockery of testimonies, food storage, food storage, you name it. People wouldn't be "starving" enough to eat a pet after only four days. Etc., etc.

But Rongo, how could you possibly doubt "The Grimace's" honesty and sincerity.  How dare you mock his pain?!  What, do you scowl at toddlers and beat puppies, too?

[Stargazer]

Because of your posting history, and the tone and details of that specific post.

 

It was a ham-handed mockery of testimonies, food storage, food storage, you name it. People wouldn't be "starving" enough to eat a pet after only four days. Etc., etc.

 

I am unsure whether to take Grimace's story at face value (I believed it when I read it, though).  But people might be afraid that they would be stranded a lot longer and so might take the step of killing the pet while it hasn't starved yet, and when it could provide the most nutrition.  Gotta consider that the story might be true, after all.  Just because the boy who cried wolf is crying wolf once again does not mean there is no wolf this time.

[omni]

Oh, yes.  Please remind us again how many days it took FEMA to get a load of water bottles to the New Orleans Super Dome after Hurricane Katrina? 

 

It isn't that the government won't attempt to provide assistance in the case of natural disaster -- it will attempt to do so, But my favorite disaster scenario is the Cascadia Subduction Zone letting loose with a 9.0+.  This would be the rough equivalent of what Japan suffered in 2011, and they had in excess of 15,000 deaths -- interesting number for a country with far better earthquake and tsunami preparedness that we have in the Pacific Northwest.  The Cascadia Subduction Zone is currently locked up along 40 miles of its length.  If the entire length of the fault gives way next week it would dwarf the Japan 2011 earthquake.  Almost all of our electricity is generated by hydroelectric.  How many of our dams will burst and/or be taken offline for extended periods?  We have lots of rivers, and that means lots of bridges, and how many of them will be destroyed?  The west side of the Cascade Mountains is the most affected, and is the most populated.  There would be tens of millions of people without power, possibly for weeks or months, without food supplies because transportation nets would be taken offline for weeks.  Add in the fact that when the Cascadia Zone breaks it has almost always been the trigger to cause the San Andreas Fault in California to cut loose:

 

 

So, how well do you think that the government is going to perform with virtually the entire west coast flat on its tush with completely busted infrastructure?  I think I it would be a VERY good idea to have a good food supply in your house.

 

My house is 120 years old, and will probably be uninhabitable afterwards, even if it doesn't fall into a loose pile of little sticks.

I figured someone would bring up Katrina sooner or later. How do you think your year supply of food storage would do under 10 feet of murky brackish water? I don't think starvation was the problem for the survivors, but the horrible living conditions caused by the close-quarters living, lack of sanitation, and threats of violence.

The Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake sounds scary and I would pray it doesn't come anytime soon, however reports I read from the NY Post give an estimate of 10,000 deaths and a more localized event instead of tbe entire West Coast. As tragic as this would be, it wouldn't be an insurmountable task to get food and assistance to the survivors in a reasonable time. I have no doubt the American people would come together and put every effort available to assist in the rescue. Once again, I'm not against preparation, just wondering why the focus in the last eighty years on something that won't likely effect the vast majority of saints any time soon if ever.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Once again, I'm not against preparation, just wondering why the focus in the last eighty years on something that won't likely effect the vast majority of saints any time soon if ever.

The life skills developed by applying provident living principles and practices affect every Saint who engages in them, right now.

[Stargazer]

I figured someone would bring up Katrina sooner or later. How do you think your year supply of food storage would do under 10 feet of murky brackish water? I don't think starvation was the problem for the survivors, but the horrible living conditions caused by the close-quarters living, lack of sanitation, and threats of violence.

The Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake sounds scary and I would pray it doesn't come anytime soon, however reports I read from the NY Post give an estimate of 10,000 deaths and a more localized event instead of tbe entire West Coast. As tragic as this would be, it wouldn't be an insurmountable task to get food and assistance to the survivors in a reasonable time. I have no doubt the American people would come together and put every effort available to assist in the rescue. Once again, I'm not against preparation, just wondering why the focus in the last eighty years on something that won't likely effect the vast majority of saints any time soon if ever.

 

My wife and her three little sisters (ages 4 through 10) survived the end of WW2 all by themselves in a largely destroyed town by getting into basements filled with water to get stored food in glass jars that had survived. 

 

My house is not subject to flooding at all, being at the southern most reach of the Puget Sound, and a couple hundred feet above sea level.  My food storage is all in cans and would survive some minor flooding anyway, if removed from the water before corrosion broke their integrity.

 

The CSZ earthquake could be a localized event, but your New York Post doesn't know what is going to happen.  The last CSZ megaquake, the 1700 Cascadia quake was not a localized event, but had a fault rupture length of 630 miles, from Vancouver Island, BC to Northern California.  I am not going to bet one way or another, but it would be best to be prepared for the worst, if that is possible.

[omni]

I agree, but I'm not sure food storage is the best way to teach about provident living.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I'm not sure food storage is the best way to teach about provident living.

Have you noticed yet that those who've faithfully practised this principle over the course of years quite strongly disagree with you?

[Sleeper Cell]

I think the key part of that is the time table you mentioned of 72 hrs or a max of 7-10 days. This was determined by experts in the field who have studied past disasters and are aware of the government resources abilities. Are you aware of any instances since the directive from our prophets in which a member of the church's life has been spared after a natural disaster because they had a year supply of food storage? Do you foresee anything likely to happen in your lifetime that would require a one-year or even a three-month supply?

 

Again, it is not so much a matter of the government’s resources abilities as the ability of the government to get the resources to those who need them.  

 

The 72 hrs. was the old standard.  The current standard is 7-10 days, minimum.  It is not 7-10 days maximum.  If nothing else, the fact that the standard was changed should suggest that even the experts tend to overestimate the ability of the government.  Again, I cite the Katrina example.  The experts who studied that disaster concluded that they, themselves, had not even seriously contemplated having to respond to a disaster of that magnitude.  To be clear, this was not just the conclusion of experts in the gulf states, nor was it limited to hurricane disasters.  

 

Disaster response planning is based on “the greatest good for the greatest number.”  This is one reason why  a minimal standard was chosen, rather than a maximum standard.  It is an attempt to convince as many as possible to make some preparations.  Many of those who might  be willing to accumulate a few days of storage would probably not do anything if the standard were three months. The 7-10 days standard does not mean that the government will always be able to get resources to everyone within that period.  It simply means that it  expects that in most disasters it expects to be able to gett resources to most people in 7-10 days.  

 

As I mentioned before, one of the major reasons why Katrina was so catastrophic was that the experts had not seriously contemplated a disaster of that magnitude; hence failed to plan for one. You seem to be making the same pre-Katrina mistake they made -- expecting future disasters to be similar in scope to past disasters.  Of course, past experience remains a major factor in disaster planning (that is one reason why we do “after action reports”).  However, the current trend in disaster planning is to also contemplate and plan for some of the “what ifs.” For example, southern  California hasn’t had anywhere near a 7.8 earthquake (or any significant earthquake along the San Andreas fault) for the last 150 years.  Yet, since 2008, state and local jurisdictions conduct an annual exercise based on just such a scenario.  Another example is the 2010 “Golden Phoenix” exercise conducted by Los Angeles and Ventura counties in conjunction with the Naval Postgraduate School’s Center for Asymmetric Warfare. The scenario was a 10 kiloton “improvised nuclear device” detonating in the LA area, followed a few hours later by a second device detonating on the east coast.  Likely?  No (hopefully).  Yet the potential impact would be so great that these two counties and several federal agencies felt it was worthwhile to conduct such an exercise.   

 

If you are satisfied with 72 hours or 7 days, or if that is all you can manage, I certainly would have no criticism .  My point is merely that none of the disaster response experts with whom I have discussed this matter think that having a few months supply is unreasonable. Although a few did say that they thought that accumulating a year supply may be a bit excessive, they stressed that they didn’t want to discourage anyone inclined to do so.   

[thesometimesaint]

Oh, yes.  Please remind us again how many days it took FEMA to get a load of water bottles to the New Orleans Super Dome after Hurricane Katrina? 

 

It isn't that the government won't attempt to provide assistance in the case of natural disaster -- it will attempt to do so, But my favorite disaster scenario is the Cascadia Subduction Zone letting loose with a 9.0+.  This would be the rough equivalent of what Japan suffered in 2011, and they had in excess of 15,000 deaths -- interesting number for a country with far better earthquake and tsunami preparedness that we have in the Pacific Northwest.  The Cascadia Subduction Zone is currently locked up along 40 miles of its length.  If the entire length of the fault gives way next week it would dwarf the Japan 2011 earthquake.  Almost all of our electricity is generated by hydroelectric.  How many of our dams will burst and/or be taken offline for extended periods?  We have lots of rivers, and that means lots of bridges, and how many of them will be destroyed?  The west side of the Cascade Mountains is the most affected, and is the most populated.  There would be tens of millions of people without power, possibly for weeks or months, without food supplies because transportation nets would be taken offline for weeks.  Add in the fact that when the Cascadia Zone breaks it has almost always been the trigger to cause the San Andreas Fault in California to cut loose:

 

 

 

 

So, how well do you think that the government is going to perform with virtually the entire west coast flat on its tush with completely busted infrastructure?  I think I it would be a VERY good idea to have a good food supply in your house.

 

My house is 120 years old, and will probably be uninhabitable afterwards, even if it doesn't fall into a loose pile of little sticks. 

 

The malfeasance of certain federal elected/appointed public officials before, during, and after the Katrina disaster should be a testament of what not to do to the good people of New Orleans.

 

I do worry about you up in the Cascadia Subduction Zone. The good thing is we down here in southern California are a Strike Slip Zone. So we can't get to huge earthquakes you can up there. The bad thing is that we are much more populated, so even our smaller earthquakes are bad enough.

 

Have you looked into retrofitting your home?

 

[Stargazer]

I agree, but I'm not sure food storage is the best way to teach about provident living.

 

It is the easiest thing to start immediately. 

 

Not everyone can plant a food crop, such as apartment dwellers and those whose property doesn't have room.  But no matter who you are you can have a month's supply of basics (not talking about long-time-frame items like wheat and rice), but a month's worth of what you can live off of if you can't buy anything in the store. 

 

Everyone can create a 72-hour kit, especially since military or quasi-military rations are easily obtainable in one form or another, even those on limited budgets by simply buying a few things at a time.  The root word of provident is "to provide".  If you can provide yourself with even a small reserve of both cash and important commodities, you have provided for emergencies.  The old scriptural adage, "if you are prepared you shall not fear" kicks in here.  I have a 72 hour kit in a backpack for each member of the household, hanging up in the front closet, and if we have to evacuate fast it is simply a matter of taking the backpack from the hook on the way out the door.  Each car has a emergency kit under the seat or in the trunk.  If a family member is stranded away from the house due to bridges being out, or other such problem, there is emergency food and water and some basics in each kit.

 

None of this takes a heroic effort to obtain.  We have done so gradually over a period of a few years.  And if we are all struck by a common disaster, well then, someone will benefit from it.

[Stargazer]

 

The malfeasance of certain federal elected/appointed public officials before, during, and after the Katrina disaster should be a testament of what not to do to the good people of New Orleans.

 

I do worry about you up in the Cascadia Subduction Zone. The good thing is we down here in southern California are a Strike Slip Zone. So we can't get to huge earthquakes you can up there. The bad thing is that we are much more populated, so even our smaller earthquakes are bad enough.

 

Have you looked into retrofitting your home?

 

 

 

Retrofitting the place would be rather expensive.  At the moment I owe more than the house is worth, so refinancing to do it is out -- interesting that 5 years ago the house was worth 3 times what I owe on it!  In a few years when the market has recovered this might be a possibility again.

 

Well, having a 120 year old house has trained me on how to be a fixit man.  4 years ago I rebuilt part of the foundation from the inside (while remodeling to turn a first floor bedroom into a large bathroom, and that corner of the house is now the strongest part.  I've got a lot of posts in the crawlspace that need to be fixed to their concrete blocks and strapped to their joists.  And part of the foundation is old red brick that is as old as the house and it would be very difficult to replace.  Fortunately, some of that was replaced by concrete posts by a previous owner.  I think we would survive being in the house for a CSZ earthquake, but the house itself would probably be uninhabitable afterwards. 

[Kenngo1969]

I agree, but I'm not sure food storage is the best way to teach about provident living.

When it comes to provident living, food storage is only a relatively-small part of a much bigger picture.  Provident living also is about some of the other things you say we don't pay enough attention to, such as eating and drinking right, getting enough exercise, getting enough rest, sound mental health, having a good enough support system and other good habits that we don't become overwhelmed by a single aspect of our lives (whether it be work, school, family, et cetera) and so on.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

 

The malfeasance of certain federal elected/appointed public officials before, during, and after the Katrina disaster should be a testament of what not to do to the good people of New Orleans.

 

Yup.  It's a good thing state and local officials bore absolutely no responsibility for the ineffectiveness of the response to Katrina. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been even more ineffective.

[The Grimace]

"The Grimace," I apologize profusely and repent sincerely for doubting your honesty and sincerity.  I hope I haven't irreparably damaged our relationship (please see my signature line).

 

P.S.:  And if I doubted your honesty and sincerity (of course, I don't, but if I did) I would posit that there's a parallel thread over at The Great And Spacious Trailer Park deriding us Mormons for our credulity and gullibility.

 

Well, go find that thread and tell us what they are all saying (hint: there's no thread).

[Kenngo1969]

Well, go find that thread and tell us what they are all saying (hint: there's no thread).

If you say so.

 

P.S.: I might not find any such thread that had been started (or contributed to) by "The Grimace," but that presupposes you use the same moniker over there as you do over here ... which may not be the case.  You wouldn't be the first person to post in both places under different identities, saying such things as, "You guys hurt my tender feelings!" over here, while saying, "Hah-hah!  Those stupid Mormons are so gullible!" over there.

 

P.P.S.:  And I also note with great interest that if you had been completely innocent, you would have responded to my accusation by saying something such as, "Great and Spacious Trailer Park?  I'm confused. What are you talking about?  I don't know anything about any trailer park."

Edited October 29, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[The Grimace]

If you say so.

 

P.S.: I might not find any such thread that had been started (or contributed to) by "The Grimace," but that presupposes you use the same moniker over there as you do over here ... which may not be the case.  You wouldn't be the first person to post in both places under different identities, saying such things as, "You guys hurt my tender feelings!" over here, while saying, "Hah-hah!  Those stupid Mormons are so gullible!" over there.

 

P.P.S.:  And I also note with great interest that if you had been completely innocent, you would have responded to my accusation by saying something such as, "Great and Spacious Trailer Park?  I'm confused. What are you talking about?  I don't know anything about any trailer park."

 

Come on...anyone who's posted here more than a few days sees the 'Great and Spacious Trailer Park' and figures out what it is. And, there are no threads over there started by me, or any one else, in reference to this thread or the participants gullibility. 

 

Of course, you could just look for yourself. It is just a website, there's nothing to be afraid of.

 

So, we have you accusing me of lying about a story from my childhood. And you claim I'm doing it so people at another website can make fun of participants here. You can verify the latter, but you won't.

 

And I'm the troll...

[Kenngo1969]

Come on...anyone who's posted here more than a few days sees the 'Great and Spacious Trailer Park' and figures out what it is. And, there are no threads over there started by me, or any one else, in reference to this thread or the participants gullibility. 

 

Of course, you could just look for yourself. It is just a website, there's nothing to be afraid of.

 

So, we have you accusing me of lying about a story from my childhood. And you claim I'm doing it so people at another website can make fun of participants here. You can verify the latter, but you won't.

 

And I'm the troll...

I'm not afraid of the Great and Spacious Trailer Park.  There are simply so many hours in a day, and I don't think choosing to spend much time there would be worth whatever return I might get from doing so.  If that makes me afraid, so be it.  And I'm sure that most posters here don't even care what the Great and Spacious Trailer Park is, let alone not knowing. They don't even care enough to find out.  And, quite frankly, I don't care enough about whether there's any correspondence between what you post on the two Boards to spend enough time there to try to find out.  If that makes me a troll, so be it. 

[EllenMaksoud]

I may disagree with a number of the Church's teachings, but food storage is one that I, to this day, hang on to. I will share a story from when I was 12 years old that will solidify why.

 

Please turn away now if you have a delicate stomach; this story isn't for the faint of heart.

 

My grand-dad had a cabin in the far north, and he agreed that our scout troop could bunk up there for winter camp. This was February, if I remember, but could have been early March. Anyway, to get into the camp, we drove to a lake, and then used snowmobiles to go the rest of the way in, probably about 3-4 hours trip across the snow. It was far in, but it as a great adventure.

 

On the last night of the camp, we got hit badly by a snowstorm. A bunch of the trees got weighed down with snow and ice, and fell and damaged two of the snowmobiles, leaving only one undamaged. One wouldn't be enough to get the five boys plus grand-dad, and our two leaders out, plus our gear (we had sleds that hooked up to the snowmobiles). And we were low on supplies - maybe enough for a day.

 

So, one of the leaders decided to drive out, and get help, while the rest of us waited. About three hours later, he returned, on foot, and said that the snowmobile had broken down. So grand-dad got on the radio, looking for help, but the batteries were dying, and we had no electricity (we were far from any civilization).

 

Well, to make a long story short, we spent about 3 days up there, bunked in, but trapped. It was snowing most of the time, and windy, making a foot escape dangerous. By the second day, we were done our food, with a little reserve for the leader who would go out on foot. We figured it would be a good eight hours to trek to the nearest road, and then a couple of hours to find help.

 

On the 4th day the weather cleared, and one of the leaders left for the road. We were starving. Grand-dad tried to find some rabbits, but no luck.

 

On the 5th day, we hadn't seen any help come, and so grand-dad made a decision. We'd brought grand-dad's mutt, Spark, along with us. Spark was a good 60 pounds, part husky part german shepherd. A good dog, suited for the north. You have to understand, there were seven of is left - 5 boys, a leader, and grand-dad. And grand-dad was worried that our other leader hadn't gotten to the road. 

 

And, so, grand-dad decided that we'd need to sacrifice Spark so we could survive. I won't get into the details, but grand-dad took Spark a distance away, and came back with meat. The seven of us were able to live off Spark for the next two days, when help finally came.

 

So, I'm here to tell you that food storage is very important. Because we didn't bring enough food, we had to eat a beloved pet. I'll never forget that day. But I did learn a lesson - along with food storage, don't forget that pets are just animals, and sometimes they have to serve a purpose other than companionship.

I was tiny, must have been 4?  We had just moved to Oregon. it was 1949 and we were out of food. Being the youngest, there were two pieces of bread left, and Mother toasted them and gave them to me. I complained that we did not have eggs and milk until I was told that no one else had anything ...

[The Grimace]

I'm not afraid of the Great and Spacious Trailer Park.  There are simply so many hours in a day, and I don't think choosing to spend much time there would be worth whatever return I might get from doing so.  If that makes me afraid, so be it.  And I'm sure that most posters here don't even care what the Great and Spacious Trailer Park is, let alone not knowing. They don't even care enough to find out.  And, quite frankly, I don't care enough about whether there's any correspondence between what you post on the two Boards to spend enough time there to try to find out.  If that makes me a troll, so be it. 

 

Well, now that you've established that you don't care, how about you quit yammering on about it?

[Erin15]

I'm sure these are all having a greater negative effect on the membership than natural disasters are.

I'm baffled by the way you seem to be suspicious and critical of the Lord's counsel, yet optimistic and trusting when it comes to the federal government and its ability to function during natural disasters.

 

You've got it exactly backwards.  The Federal Government is terrible at everything it tries to do, you should not count on them for anything, but you should trust the Lord and his apostles.

[omni]

Have you noticed yet that those who've faithfully practised this principle over the course of years quite strongly disagree with you?

 

Sure, but I've also noticed those close to me who have been very faithful to this principle, but who haven't managed do to well with the provident living aspect of it.  Or on the flip side, in my own life I've been pretty faithful at not practicing this principle and have done quite well in my provident living.  Isn't it great that we can exchange ideas and disagree with each other and hopefully learn a thing or two? 

[Erin15]

Sure, but I've also noticed those close to me who have been very faithful to this principle, but who haven't managed do to well with the provident living aspect of it.  Or on the flip side, in my own life I've been pretty faithful at not practicing this principle and have done quite well in my provident living.  Isn't it great that we can exchange ideas and disagree with each other and hopefully learn a thing or two? 

You have you agency, of course.  I predict that when your lamp runs out of oil you will scream that others should give you some of theirs.  Hopefully, I am wrong.

[thesometimesaint]

Sure, but I've also noticed those close to me who have been very faithful to this principle, but who haven't managed do to well with the provident living aspect of it.  Or on the flip side, in my own life I've been pretty faithful at not practicing this principle and have done quite well in my provident living.  Isn't it great that we can exchange ideas and disagree with each other and hopefully learn a thing or two? 

 

We are all incompetent at some level. IMNTBHO we should be trying to become better. Stagnation is a form of Damnation.

[omni]

I'm baffled by the way you seem to be suspicious and critical of the Lord's counsel, yet optimistic and trusting when it comes to the federal government and its ability to function during natural disasters.

 

You've got it exactly backwards.  The Federal Government is terrible at everything it tries to do, you should not count on them for anything, but you should trust the Lord and his apostles.

 

First of all I'm not entirely convinced it's the Lord's will that we have a year supply of food storage.  While the Federal government has its share of problems, I think your comment that the Feds are terrible at everything it tries is a wee bit extreme.   I've noticed that for the polemists whether you hate or respect the Federal government simply depends on whether or not your guy is in the White House.