inquiringmind Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 In ancient times they use to cast lots to determine the will of God.Can we do that kind of thing today?If we have a question for God, could we type it into google and see what result came up first?
altersteve Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 If you feel the Spirit is telling you to do that, then yes.
The Nehor Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 We still do use lots in a few instances. In a Stake High Council court you draw which side you are on and in which order you speak.I think seerstones are better personally but God told me I couldn't have one. 1
Ahab Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 You'd have to believe in miracles to believe the casting of lots determined the will of God, because unless he caused those lots to land a certain way the result would be a matter of pure chance.But, yeah, we could do the same thing today while hoping God would determine the outcome of an internet search.
inquiringmind Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) You'd have to believe in miracles to believe the casting of lots determined the will of God, because unless he caused those lots to land a certain way the result would be a matter of pure chance.But, yeah, we could do the same thing today while hoping God would determine the outcome of an internet search.But would God do that?If you type in something like "is all hope gone," and the top result is a song from slipknot titled "all hope is gone," is He telling you you're lost? Edited August 9, 2013 by inquiringmind
Ahab Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 But would God do that?If you type in something like "is all hope gone," and the top result is a song from slipknot titled "all hope is gone," is He telling you you're lost?He's telling me it would be silly to type that in my search bar. Can't you think of something better for me to type?In Acts in the case of which person to choose as an apostle it was between Matthias and... whatever his name was... and Matthias was the one that was chosen according to the lots that they cast. I don't know what or how many options were on those lots they used, but let's suppose it was something like a 6-sided die and they agreed that if the lot landed on 1, 2, or 3 then God was choosing Matthias, or that God would be choosing the other guy if the lot landed on 4, 5, or 6. I think it went something like that.
The Nehor Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 But would God do that?If you type in something like "is all hope gone," and the top result is a song from slipknot titled "all hope is gone," is He telling you you're lost?If you are performing this procedure you are in fact lost.
inquiringmind Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 If you are performing this procedure you are in fact lost.Could you please explain what you mean?And why you say this (especially if you use Tarot cards, as I think I remember you saying you do in another thread)?
The Nehor Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Could you please explain what you mean?And why you say this (especially if you use Tarot cards, as I think I remember you saying you do in another thread)?Sure, I mean that if you are trying to receive divine revelation via Google search you are spiritually lost.Sounds like something I would say but no, I do not use tarot cards in any divinatory fashion. I prefer reading the intestines of a virgin killed on All Hallow's Eve for my divinatory needs. It is at least 3% more accurate.
inquiringmind Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 Sure, I mean that if you are trying to receive divine revelation via Google search you are spiritually lost.Sounds like something I would say but no, I do not use tarot cards in any divinatory fashion...Sorry, I think I had you mixed up with Nathair.But what do you mean by "spiritually lost"?Do you mean irredeemable, beyond salvation, hopeless?
The Nehor Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Sorry, I think I had you mixed up with Nathair.But what do you mean by "spiritually lost"?Do you mean irredeemable, beyond salvation, hopeless?More like lost your spiritual marbles.
inquiringmind Posted August 9, 2013 Author Posted August 9, 2013 More like lost your spiritual marbles.I thank you for your candor.Could you explain why you think it would be crazy to type a question into google, and expect God to give you an answer?
The Nehor Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Could you explain why you think it would be crazy to type a question into google, and expect God to give you an answer?Because God is really not into the whole Search Engine Optimization thing.
Calm Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Google is not a random action, so it is not comparable to lots which were.You would need to find something that is random such as rolling dice or something closer to random like drawing a card from a stack or some such thing to be closer to how the lots worked....as far as we know.However, the scriptures leave a lot out, there may have been other things that were essential to the usage that is not mentioned. Perhaps they were required to fast, undergo certain purification rituals, etc.And top of the list is that they were commanded to use such things and unless you feel the Spirit is commanding use to them, I don't think it is likely appropriate for you to do so nor would the Spirit work through them to give you the answers you desire.
canard78 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Sorry but this conversation makes me go: A dice has 6 sides. You have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a given number every time you roll it. If you want to make your choices boil down to randomised chance then what you'll get is randomised decisions.God has given some very practical and serviceable ways of getting divine guidance on personal decision making. Rolling dice/casting lots ain't one of them. 1
ERayR Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 We still do use lots in a few instances. In a Stake High Council court you draw which side you are on and in which order you speak.I think seerstones are better personally but God told me I couldn't have one. As a kid I hunted for one for years. Never found one.
Ahab Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Sorry but this conversation makes me go: A dice has 6 sides. You have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a given number every time you roll it. If you want to make your choices boil down to randomised chance then what you'll get is randomised decisions.God has given some very practical and serviceable ways of getting divine guidance on personal decision making. Rolling dice/casting lots ain't one of them.So you think he has to put iether a Yes or No answer in your mind before you can know his will on an issue?Suppose the lots had 2 sides, with Yes on one side and No on the other.What makes you think he can't make the side he wants to turn up on a toss as easily as putting that answer in your own mind?
Calm Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 For me the question is whether God wants us to develop a spiritual, personal relationship with him where answers come direct from him to us or instead depend on lots or dice or whatever for our answers even if God is the one causing them to come up that way...and how would we know for sure without a spiritual witness so why not just go with the Spirit first?
Cobalt-70 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 In ancient times they use to cast lots to determine the will of God.Can we do that kind of thing today?Casting of lots (cleromancy) is an old form of magic, found many times in the bible. Lots are related to other magical devices such as the Urim and Thummim, Joseph Smith's seer stone, and Oliver Cowdery's divining rod. If you believe in the power of the Urim and Thummim, then there's no reason I can think of not to believe in cleromancy also.
Ahab Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 For me the question is whether God wants us to develop a spiritual, personal relationship with him where answers come direct from him to us or instead depend on lots or dice or whatever for our answers even if God is the one causing them to come up that way...and how would we know for sure without a spiritual witness so why not just go with the Spirit first?Why either/or? Why instead? Why not both?The lot turned up the way God wanted it to turn up and God also confirmed through the Spirit that was his choice.I know it's all about learning to read the mind of God, but sometimes a crutch can help get us to that point. ... like Joseph used the Urim and Thummim at first, and then he learned to read the mind of God without any need to use that.
canard78 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 So you think he has to put iether a Yes or No answer in your mind before you can know his will on an issue?Suppose the lots had 2 sides, with Yes on one side and No on the other.What makes you think he can't make the side he wants to turn up on a toss as easily as putting that answer in your own mind?You mean like flipping a coin? Heads or tails?At the very least it will mean that you're doing the right thing 50% of the time. Which is probably a pretty good ratio.Here's a suggestion: if you believe God will affect the spin of a coin to give you an answer to prayer, ask him to make it land that way 10-times in a row just to be sure. Let me know how that goes for you. 1
Calm Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) You mean like flipping a coin? Heads or tails?At the very least it will mean that you're doing the right thing 50% of the time. Which is probably a pretty good ratio.Here's a suggestion: if you believe God will affect the spin of a coin to give you an answer to prayer, ask him to make it land that way 10-times in a row just to be sure. Let me know how that goes for you.Gideon, I believe it was, did pretty much the same thing so I would agree such a test would be appropriate. My memory says something about a sheepskin being wet and then not wet with morning dew while the surrounding grass was the opposite. Edited August 9, 2013 by calmoriah
Ahab Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 You mean like flipping a coin? Heads or tails?At the very least it will mean that you're doing the right thing 50% of the time. Which is probably a pretty good ratio.Here's a suggestion: if you believe God will affect the spin of a coin to give you an answer to prayer, ask him to make it land that way 10-times in a row just to be sure. Let me know how that goes for you.He said he can but whether or not he'll do it at my whim is a whole other issue.
canard78 Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) Gideon, I believe it was, did pretty much the same thing so I would agree such a test would be appropriate. My memory says something about a sheepskin being wet and then not wet with morning dew while the surrounding grass was the opposite.It's a favourite OT story of mine too. I appreciate Gideon's uncertainty and willingness to do it anyway. He gets an answer to prayer despite his reservations at asking for it.36 ¶And Gideon said unto God, If thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said,37 Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said.38 And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water.39 And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.40 And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground.Judges 6But I wouldn't for a minute equate this ancient story to a mandate to start saying a prayer and flipping a coin to get the answer. Especially when we've been given a very personal way for getting answers to prayers already. Edited August 10, 2013 by canard78
canard78 Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 He said he can but whether or not he'll do it at my whim is a whole other issue.He said he can? Where? And did he ever say he would?I'm sure he 'can' do anything within the laws of the universe. The OP is about whether it's a method that has merit.
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