Questing Beast Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 70 years ago society was told that smoking was good for you. The Church said it wasn't.50 years ago society began to see that smoking was harmful. The Church reiterated that smoking was to be avoided. 30 years ago the science was convincing that smoking was very harmful and that to reduce the risk of cancer and heart disease etc. one needed to STOP smoking . Church rules didn't change. Society now has come to the point where it frowns on smoking in public and second hand smoke is abhorred as well. Guess what?, some people still smoke despite all the evidence against it. In places like China smoking is still at the 1950s stage in the US. The same holds true for most if not all of the commandments. People will do as they see fit regardless of the consequences. Folks may all be seeking God, but I'm reasonably sure that it is their OWN god they seek.You judge the "godliness" of others based on the appetites of the body? Take a look around the typical LDS community, then: obesity is rampant, on a scale that is like an epidemic illness. It is at least as damaging in its own right as smoking. Overfed, overweight Mormons think they are righteous while smokers are somehow deficient in their moral sense. Do you want to multiply examples of your logical fallacy?...
EllenMaksoud Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 You judge the "godliness" of others based on the appetites of the body? Take a look around the typical LDS community, then: obesity is rampant, on a scale that is like an epidemic illness. It is at least as damaging in its own right as smoking. Overfed, overweight Mormons think they are righteous while smokers are somehow deficient in their moral sense. Do you want to multiply examples of your logical fallacy?...One of the biggest shocks I had when I began frequenting the Mormon community is how modern and urbanized we are. I expected to see scratch cooking, food storage, home ground flower, large home gardens and all that. There seems to be the mind set that some how, we'll just go to zion and everything will be fine. I worry about that.Coming from an ubber modest culture, some Mormon accepted clothes make me feel like a stripper, and inflames my concupiscence. It worries me that many are preoccupied with polygamy (as if it were wrong), and the Gay agenda (like we should feel threatened?).
strappinglad Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 The point ( other than the one on my head ) was found in the last few sentences of my post, QB. Smoking was simply the example of how , no matter what happens in society ,some people will do as they will and disregard any advice or commandment whether it comes from science or God. We are a stubborn and willful species. As for the obesity problem , don't get me started on how we slide over the last half of the WoW . Society's contradicting messages on the subject are for another thread.
Stone holm Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 One of the biggest shocks I had when I began frequenting the Mormon community is how modern and urbanized we are. I expected to see scratch cooking, food storage, home ground flower, large home gardens and all that. There seems to be the mind set that some how, we'll just go to zion and everything will be fine. I worry about that.Coming from an ubber modest culture, some Mormon accepted clothes make me feel like a stripper, and inflames my concupiscence. It worries me that many are preoccupied with polygamy (as if it were wrong), and the Gay agenda (like we should feel threatened?).It depends on where you go. When I joined the Church back when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth there was a lot of focus on home production, canning, food storage, wheat grinding, gardening, home seamstressing, etc. The Church seems to have moved away from that emphasis especially under Pres. Hinckley and linked up with the social conservatives to focus on sexual morality, etc. But you still see remnants of the older approach in many rural Wards and Branches. I noticed a much greater emphasis on that back in Indiana, than out here in Vermont -- but I don't know if that was because of the differing region or because it wasn't until the 90's that we moved -- I don't know what it is like back in Indiana now. I suspect there is less emphasis there as well -- but my kids grew up with canning, gardening, dry - packing seeds, grains, flour, etc.
EllenMaksoud Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 It depends on where you go. When I joined the Church back when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth there was a lot of focus on home production, canning, food storage, wheat grinding, gardening, home seamstressing, etc. The Church seems to have moved away from that emphasis especially under Pres. Hinckley and linked up with the social conservatives to focus on sexual morality, etc. But you still see remnants of the older approach in many rural Wards and Branches. I noticed a much greater emphasis on that back in Indiana, than out here in Vermont -- but I don't know if that was because of the differing region or because it wasn't until the 90's that we moved -- I don't know what it is like back in Indiana now. I suspect there is less emphasis there as well -- but my kids grew up with canning, gardening, dry - packing seeds, grains, flour, etc.I started at the Kirtland Stake Center, and then at the Perry Ward briefly. The Kirtland Ward is huge from what I could see, 3-400 people, and very modern. Then I attended a Ward in Indianapolis for about three weeks while I was on a business trip. Here in Portland It seems about the same. I don't mean any of this as negative criticism. In my varied experiences, the Mormon people are the nicest, mos devout living people I have ever met.
Stone holm Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I started at the Kirtland Stake Center, and then at the Perry Ward briefly. The Kirtland Ward is huge from what I could see, 3-400 people, and very modern. Then I attended a Ward in Indianapolis for about three weeks while I was on a business trip. Here in Portland It seems about the same. I don't mean any of this as negative criticism. In my varied experiences, the Mormon people are the nicest, mos devout living people I have ever met.No, but you are right the lifestyle and definition of self-sufficiency is changing to meet the corporate model, self-sufficiency now tends to mean capable of paying your bills and a testimony which is not dependent on any mortal. It used to have a more literal definition like in growing as much of your own food as you could, making your own clothes, etc. etc. which really appealed to the counter-culture off the grid people my age in the 60's and 70's who joined the Church at that time. We were all about gardens and making your own bread, and group canning sessions, etc.
strappinglad Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 In urban centers, it is difficult to grow a garden. Time constraints with both spouses working at least part time, make baking etc. much harder to do regularly. I personally hope we never lose the memories of the " ancient ones " who know how to live off the land ,because that knowledge may prove to be the salvation of our people in the future. 1
strappinglad Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 It may be that we will hobnob with the Amish and the Hutterites.
Ahab Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 We can always do better than we're doing, until we reach the point of perfection. Problem is some people think they are well enough off and don't strive to perfect themselves anymore, or they think they're done when they're really not there yet. That's what it's all about, I think. If you're perfectly content with who you are and what you have in your life, even while realizing there are people who are better than you are in some ways, then what is it that is going to motivate you to be better later, even if you have all of eternity to be totally perfect? What I see most often are people who think they are better than they really are, especially among the learned.
Stone holm Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 In urban centers, it is difficult to grow a garden. Time constraints with both spouses working at least part time, make baking etc. much harder to do regularly. I personally hope we never lose the memories of the " ancient ones " who know how to live off the land ,because that knowledge may prove to be the salvation of our people in the future.Pres Kimballs response to that was if you have a window you can grow something.
strappinglad Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 My windows grow quite a few flies. They have a bit of protein so maybe I should encourage more of them. 1
Calm Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Pres Kimballs response to that was if you have a window you can grow something.There are some interesting hydroponic solutions, including growing Tilapia for food even in the city, Lehi LeSellers was posting some examples of such before he left the board. If you do a search on his name, you will likely find some links.
stemelbow Posted July 25, 2013 Author Posted July 25, 2013 I advise you to reconsider what you have said. Some people are very different, and while they love Heavenly Father and do his will, they will never be accepted with "The Masses". And yes, it happens in the Mormon church.I'm not sure what you mean by reconsidering what I said. I've re-read it. I certainly think I could have explained myself better. But I agree with you - "Some people are very different, and while they love Heavenly Father and do his will, they will never be accepted with "The Masses". And yes, it happens in the Mormon church."That is well put.
stemelbow Posted July 25, 2013 Author Posted July 25, 2013 It's about people not seeing that living the gospel is the best way to live. Why do you think people can't see that the Church has the fulness of gospel teachings?How can we claim to have the fulness if we know there is more out there that we simply don't know? People can't see the Church has the fulness because fulness suggests completeness. Completeness would be far more than what the Church has, in my view. Indeed, there has yet to be truths revealed.
Ahab Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 How can we claim to have the fulness if we know there is more out there that we simply don't know?The fulness of the gospel can be summarized in a very short paragraph, don't cha know. Do a little research to find out what it means to have the fulness of the gospel, which includes having a way to know the truth of all things.People can't see the Church has the fulness because fulness suggests completeness. Completeness would be far more than what the Church has, in my view. Indeed, there has yet to be truths revealed.The fulness of the gospel is all about having everything we need to attain perfection. It's ALWAYS going to be a work in progress.
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