In Appreciation Of The Critics

[Glenn101]

A couple of threads on the efffect that the Book of Mormon musical has had in helping a couple of people in their conversion to the gospel has prompted me to think a bit on the real long term efect that critics of the church have on conversions and "shaken faith syndrome."

After considering the matter, I really believe that the net effect is neutral to maybe even a bit positive. I have no statistics to either support that belief, just a "gut feeling."

It seems to be a given that there have been some people who have been deterred from joining the church or from continued investigation by information (gleefully and maybe irreverantly) supplied by critics of the church. But, in a way, I do not consider that as necessarily "a bad thing." And the information supplied by those critics has maybe been the catalyst for many members to question their own faith. I also do not consider that as necessarily a "bad thing."

For either situation, it forces people to examine their faith, perceptions, ideas, etc. and to get down to the bedrock of what they believe and the manner in which they gain a testimony. I really do not believe, again with nothing to back me up one way or the other, that a person who is sincerely seeking the truth and seeking it in the way God has prescribed, will ultimately be deterred from joining the gospel, or in renewing their faith.

A case in point is that of my wife. Her mother was investigating the gospel when she was in her early teens. My wife sat in on the discussions and was really interested in what she heard. But when she told some of ther friends that she was thinking of joining the church, they were quick to point out to her (erroneously) that those Mormons believed in having more than one wife. That promptly shut down my wife's investigation, at the time.

Fast forward about twenty years later. My wife began reading books about the church loaned to her by a brother-in-law and gained a testimony of the gospel during that period of time. When the missionaries knowcked on her door she told them she was ready to be baptized. And she was, church "warts" and all.

She is still active and a faithful member, despite going through trials and tribulations caused by people both in and out of the church. The effects that those critics had on her were not permanent, and she joined when she had received a testimony via the Holy Ghost which has not been shaken by subsequent information from critics or her own study.

Just thought I would mention this.

Glenn

[teddyaware]

A couple of threads on the efffect that the Book of Mormon musical has had in helping a couple of people in their conversion to the gospel has prompted me to think a bit on the real long term efect that critics of the church have on conversions and "shaken faith syndrome."

After considering the matter, I really believe that the net effect is neutral to maybe even a bit positive. I have no statistics to either support that belief, just a "gut feeling."

It seems to be a given that there have been some people who have been deterred from joining the church or from continued investigation by information (gleefully and maybe irreverantly) supplied by critics of the church. But, in a way, I do not consider that as necessarily "a bad thing." And the information supplied by those critics has maybe been the catalyst for many members to question their own faith. I also do not consider that as necessarily a "bad thing."

For either situation, it forces people to examine their faith, perceptions, ideas, etc. and to get down to the bedrock of what they believe and the manner in which they gain a testimony. I really do not believe, again with nothing to back me up one way or the other, that a person who is sincerely seeking the truth and seeking it in the way God has prescribed, will ultimately be deterred from joining the gospel, or in renewing their faith.

A case in point is that of my wife. Her mother was investigating the gospel when she was in her early teens. My wife sat in on the discussions and was really interested in what she heard. But when she told some of ther friends that she was thinking of joining the church, they were quick to point out to her (erroneously) that those Mormons believed in having more than one wife. That promptly shut down my wife's investigation, at the time.

Fast forward about twenty years later. My wife began reading books about the church loaned to her by a brother-in-law and gained a testimony of the gospel during that period of time. When the missionaries knowcked on her door she told them she was ready to be baptized. And she was, church "warts" and all.

She is still active and a faithful member, despite going through trials and tribulations caused by people both in and out of the church. The effects that those critics had on her were not permanent, and she joined when she had received a testimony via the Holy Ghost which has not been shaken by subsequent information from critics or her own study.

Just thought I would mention this.

Glenn

In order for faith to be found genuine, pure, and potent it must first be tried in the refiner's fire of adversity. In the mysterious economy and wisdom of God our critics are needed in order to generate a fervent fire of purification that is hot enough to purge out the dross so as to leave behind precious, pure and incorruptable testimonies of Jesus Christ. So yes indeed, the critics and bashers do the Lord's people a big favor by providing to them a great blessing in disguise. As Peter once said:

"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" (1 (Peter 1:7)

Edited May 15, 2013 by teddyaware

[Questing Beast]

Faith is all well and good to fellow believers. But does "faith" exist outside of the paradigm of shared dogma? I think not, to those inside that paradigm. That's where the more ecumenical thinker is, I believe, closer to how "God" views faith: it isn't a singular or ultimately conformist paradigm at all, but rather, faithfulness to the inner, core (authentic) being. Where shared faith comes into the picture is believing that "God" is consistent with the world, that Joy is found and kept by living correctly to the principles of Joy, that its alternate is just as consistently experienced through denying the principles of Joy. Religion, pure and undefiled, is the same everywhere in the world, it isn't the sole privilege of Christians to define what pure religion Is, much less Mormons or any other denomination which asserts an exclusive "right" to revelation and authority to speak and act for "God"....

[Storm Rider]

Faith is all well and good to fellow believers. But does "faith" exist outside of the paradigm of shared dogma? I think not, to those inside that paradigm. That's where the more ecumenical thinker is, I believe, closer to how "God" views faith: it isn't a singular or ultimately conformist paradigm at all, but rather, faithfulness to the inner, core (authentic) being. Where shared faith comes into the picture is believing that "God" is consistent with the world, that Joy is found and kept by living correctly to the principles of Joy, that its alternate is just as consistently experienced through denying the principles of Joy. Religion, pure and undefiled, is the same everywhere in the world, it isn't the sole privilege of Christians to define what pure religion Is, much less Mormons or any other denomination which asserts an exclusive "right" to revelation and authority to speak and act for "God"....

Nice little thought, but it is lacking in any sense of truth. It is more of the Qum-Ba-Yah, feel good philosophy of free love that gets a soul no where. The problem is that you are using the very real teaching that God is the author of all truth and truth is found in almost all religions. The more truth one has the closer one comes to emulating God and being a source of his peace and joy. Jesus is just not some nice thought that little Christians yack about, but he is a very real Savior for each and every member of the human race. There is no shame in knowing him and proclaiming him as God and Savior to the world at large. Our tolerance is demonstrated both in our proclamation of truth and in allowing others to either listen and follow or to ignore and hold fast to the truths they have. The Church of Jesus Christ has never declared it has an exclusive right to revelation; any simple reading of scripture will tell you that prophesy will be present in many. We don't even teach that we have an exclusive right to talk for God. You are confusing the declaration that we believe in a prophet with the keys of the priesthood with exclusivity to the Holy Spirit. This is misunderstanding of teaching and doctrine. However, I can understand such a belief leads to an agenda to fear declaring what is true and what is not. Knowing truth, knowing the Second Comforter is fundamental to being a child of God.

[TruthSeeker2013]

A couple of threads on the efffect that the Book of Mormon musical has had in helping a couple of people in their conversion to the gospel has prompted me to think a bit on the real long term efect that critics of the church have on conversions and "shaken faith syndrome."

After considering the matter, I really believe that the net effect is neutral to maybe even a bit positive. I have no statistics to either support that belief, just a "gut feeling."

It seems to be a given that there have been some people who have been deterred from joining the church or from continued investigation by information (gleefully and maybe irreverantly) supplied by critics of the church. But, in a way, I do not consider that as necessarily "a bad thing." And the information supplied by those critics has maybe been the catalyst for many members to question their own faith. I also do not consider that as necessarily a "bad thing."

For either situation, it forces people to examine their faith, perceptions, ideas, etc. and to get down to the bedrock of what they believe and the manner in which they gain a testimony. I really do not believe, again with nothing to back me up one way or the other, that a person who is sincerely seeking the truth and seeking it in the way God has prescribed, will ultimately be deterred from joining the gospel, or in renewing their faith.

A case in point is that of my wife. Her mother was investigating the gospel when she was in her early teens. My wife sat in on the discussions and was really interested in what she heard. But when she told some of ther friends that she was thinking of joining the church, they were quick to point out to her (erroneously) that those Mormons believed in having more than one wife. That promptly shut down my wife's investigation, at the time.

Fast forward about twenty years later. My wife began reading books about the church loaned to her by a brother-in-law and gained a testimony of the gospel during that period of time. When the missionaries knowcked on her door she told them she was ready to be baptized. And she was, church "warts" and all.

She is still active and a faithful member, despite going through trials and tribulations caused by people both in and out of the church. The effects that those critics had on her were not permanent, and she joined when she had received a testimony via the Holy Ghost which has not been shaken by subsequent information from critics or her own study.

Just thought I would mention this.

Glenn

Intersting thought. I think honest critiques can keep any organization healhty, including the Church, but they must be honest. I think the Church would be more successful in maintaining the portion of its membership who leaves after coming across the arguments of critics, though, if it engaged in more innoculation. I wish our youth were taught about some of the church history that can appear shocking without proper contextualization. Instead, some members feel deceived when they learn about some of the more difficult issues much later in life.

[MAsh]

http://www.fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2002-fair-conference/2002-the-impact-of-mormon-critics-on-lds-scholarship