Mormon Environmental Ethic, Does It Exist?

[Calm]

And the young mother confessed well we really don't do this out west.

The governments here (since it is mostly done by local governments along with the garbage pickup) don't have (or haven't in the past) a lot of recycling programs and such because (in my understanding) it is not cost efficient (takes more resources to recycle). I live in a small town and this is the reason that it has not been instituted in our area even with some interest being there. We have a telephone book and newspaper dumpster at the 'city center' which is well used, but nothing else.

[Calm]

This must not be too recent because in the last couple years we've had curbside recycling. Granted it did take Utah awhile

Depends on the town, we don't have it yet...

[Calm]

I remember reading of five or six green programs in Europe that were well supported by government and population that demonstrated a greater environmental negative impact than what they had been instituted to remedy. It was several years ago so I can only remember some of them. One was for the conservation of water which program was so successful that the sewage pipes became clogged with sewage due to lack of fluid to carry the waste, to the point where the smell of it hung over the city. They ended up having to use more water to flush the pipes (IIRC they used fire hoses) than the water they saved from the program.

Another program put into law the required sorting of materials at the users' end...but when it came to disposal the separated materials were all dumped together anyway...thus ending up requiring more energy and use of fuel due to the multiple pickups and transportation vehicles for the separate categories when in the end nothing had changed due to the technology to make use of the separate items not being in place yet.

Green is good, but shouldn't be considered an automatic solution without awareness of actual consequences.

Edited April 23, 2013 by calmoriah

[Stone holm]

The governments here (since it is mostly done by local governments along with the garbage pickup) don't have (or haven't in the past) a lot of recycling programs and such because (in my understanding) it is not cost efficient (takes more resources to recycle). I live in a small town and this is the reason that it has not been instituted in our area even with some interest being there. We have a telephone book and newspaper dumpster at the 'city center' which is well used, but nothing else.

When I was a municipal lawyer to a half-dozen small towns in Indiana back in the 80's they all struggled with the cost of curbside. Here in Vermont most of the Towns have recycling centers that employ a lot of people doing community service sentences or who otherwise have a hard time finding employment. The people come with their trash and with their recycling and walk around and sort it to the various bins, etc. Its really a matter of developing the ethic -- if people develop the ethic then the cost issue tends to get resolved. But if the people don't develop the ethic, then the obstacles can be very, very difficult to overcome. Vermont, however, has a lot of people with a strong environmental ethic and so going to the recycling center becomes more of a social gathering as you walk around and dump stuff in bins. There was one town out here that did curbside and had a guy with a big horsedrawn wagon who clomped around town picking things up.

[CV75]

a social gathering

...like a family...

[Stone holm]

…or ecology and the environment, for that matter… But actually, He addressed sexual and family morality and mores throughout His mission (Sermon on the Mount, the woman taken in adultery, the treatment of children, parables involving the Bridegroom, His relationship with the Father, the woman with seven husbands, His command on the cross, “behold your little ones,” etc.). Is it not strange that this is so strange to you...

Your failure to answer the questions (posts 46, 50, and 59) demonstrates that there is no better Gospel-based basis or approach to environmental issues than what the Church already promotes. Shutting down examination and discussion while not leading with what we already have is the dynamic we are warned against in Matthew 13:12: “For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.” We have been given a very straightforward key to counter calamity, and you haven't been able to articulate any alternative at all, much less a better one.

Yeah, am aware but the things you are citing do not really pertain. You can only goes so far with family values as a solution to everything.

[Stone holm]

...like a family...

Like a party

[CV75]

Yeah, am aware but the things you are citing do not really pertain. You can only goes so far with family values as a solution to everything.

They do pertain! Look at Jeremiah 3:1-2 and consider the connection between sexual and family morality and the pollution of the land, and then (especially in the Book of Mormon), the connection between keeping the commandments (which God spoke and promised to our fathers) and multiplying and prospering in the land—a simple word search yields many scriptural references.

The commandment to multiply and replenish the earth in the way the Lord designed it is essential for the blessing of the earth. On the other end, the earth will be smitten with a curse unless the fathers and children turn their hearts to one another and are welded together in eternal families.

You won't find any better way!

[CV75]

Like a party

And this demonstrates the preference of one over the other as a solution to the world's ills--which is the wisest course to take (and why haven't you answered my questions?)?

[wenglund]

So we do what just give up and picket x rated movie houses?

No...you smoke cigarettes while brandishing a "clean air" sign at an Earth Day rally. Or, you can leave your huge carbon footprint home in your gas-guzzling SUV, head to the airport and board your private gas-guzzling jet, to fly to an environmentalist convention.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[CASteinman]

So I suspect that just possibly just a tad more emphasis might be in order...so that these young people coming from Utah and Idaho don't continue to project complete environmental indifference and illiteracy to the world since they are looked upon as ambassadors of Mormonism

I think its fine if people just throw away their trash without being judged for it. If people judge Mormonism by something that shallow -- they might just not be right for the Church. Its ok if they don't join. As I have said before, the Church is not for everyone. Among other things, we have to love one another and not judge so much -- even with our bad habits. Honestly, if not throwing your trash away in some politically correct fashion was the worst thing that someone could say about me, I would be delighted.

Edited April 23, 2013 by CASteinman

[CV75]

So we do what just give up and picket x rated movie houses?

According to your post in #82, the Church should throw a party!

Edited April 23, 2013 by CV75

[EllenMaksoud]

There have been some attempts to set forth and promote an environmental ethic. But it doesn't seem to have gained much traction. Is this because of a disbelief in global warming and other environmental issues? There is of course plenty of comments and statements from Brigham Young until Ezra Taft Benson to support and provide the structure for an environmental ethic, but we are seeing young marrieds coming from Utah and Idaho who don't even understand or practice recycling. How is that possible? We even used to have slogans very much like those used in such campaigns?

It's been a puzzlement to me that the largest copper mine, I think on earth, is in Utah, not far from Provo. It is the cause of the really dusty, air in the SL valley.

[thesometimesaint]

wengland:

Probably because the power generated by an windmill mounted on an air plane would never compensate for the power required by the air plane.

BTW http://www.popsci.co...ectric-airplane

Edited April 23, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[CV75]

So I suspect that just possibly just a tad more emphasis might be in order...so that these young people coming from Utah and Idaho don't continue to project complete environmental indifference and illiteracy to the world since they are looked upon as ambassadors of Mormonism

Now why don't you take them aside and kindly teach them? Why leave that responsibility up to the Church?

[wenglund]

wengland:

Probably because the power generated by an windmill mounted on an air plane would never compensate for the power required by the air plane.

Really?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[thesometimesaint]

Really?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

HUH?

[wenglund]

HUH?

Exactly.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[thesometimesaint]

Oh Well.

[wenglund]

Oh Well.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[BCSpace]

There have been some attempts to set forth and promote an environmental ethic. But it doesn't seem to have gained much traction.

Depending on your definition of "environmental ethic", this is probably a good thing.

Is this because of a disbelief in global warming and other environmental issues?

I don't think it's global warming per se as much as it is AGW, which so far has been proven to be baseless.

There is of course plenty of comments and statements from Brigham Young until Ezra Taft Benson to support and provide the structure for an environmental ethic, but we are seeing young marrieds coming from Utah and Idaho who don't even understand or practice recycling. How is that possible? We even used to have slogans very much like those used in such campaigns?

Recycling and not polluting are generally components of good a environmental ethic. But other forms of environmental ethic seem to violate scripture such as D&C 104:17.

A possible example of sustainable use might be Helaman 3:9.

[CASteinman]

It is the cause of the really dusty, air in the SL valley.

Maybe not. SL Valley doesn't have particularly more dust than most other places. But on average any place that is in "desert" type conditions with lots of terrain where dirt is exposed to air will have more dust than other places. So, you would have less in dense forest areas and more in open grasslands and even more in deserts. Salt Lake has air particulates about average for these conditions.

FYI.. the lowest particulate counts are in New York with 17 and the highest are Mono California with 1400. Salt Lake Valley has about 140.

[Stone holm]

Now why don't you take them aside and kindly teach them? Why leave that responsibility up to the Church?

So you are saying that if I kindly explain the connection of Mormon teachings with respect to stewardship being directly applicable to environmentalism, that would be as effective as a tad more emphasis on the issue say at General Conference by a General Authority? And we do work with those who we come into contact with, but given that most Americans see Utah as almost synonymous with Mormonism, whatever the Saints do or don't do in Utah affects Saints all over the United States. So if for example, Utah is rated low say on its support of environmental education and its citizens are seen as environmentally behind the rest of the country -- what type of public relations impact does that have on the Church in general. Well, probably none for a lot of conservatives -- probably a lot for progressives. If we write off the latter group as CA Steinman would say, "the Church is not for everyone", then I guess it doesn't matter.

[Stone holm]

Maybe not. SL Valley doesn't have particularly more dust than most other places. But on average any place that is in "desert" type conditions with lots of terrain where dirt is exposed to air will have more dust than other places. So, you would have less in dense forest areas and more in open grasslands and even more in deserts. Salt Lake has air particulates about average for these conditions.

FYI.. the lowest particulate counts are in New York with 17 and the highest are Mono California with 1400. Salt Lake Valley has about 140.

At the time I believe the problem in Provo Valley was the Cannon Steel Plant. Copper mines can be vicious, but I don't know as that is due to air pollution. There is an interesting conversation related in the book "Collapse" with a copper mining executive who, although not identified as LDS, I would bet was. His response to environmental degradation his company was causing was that the Earth was going to be destroyed soon with the judgment day anyway.

[CASteinman]

At the time I believe the problem in Provo Valley was the Cannon Steel Plant. Copper mines can be vicious, but I don't know as that is due to air pollution. There is an interesting conversation related in the book "Collapse" with a copper mining executive who, although not identified as LDS, I would bet was. His response to environmental degradation his company was causing was that the Earth was going to be destroyed soon with the judgment day anyway.

He makes a good point.